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TigerLord
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[Sci-Fi] Gaius Baltar... the great martyr

I am currently going through what I call my yearly BSG phase. I take out the blurays and rewatch the entire series... in this exact order:

Mini series
Season 1
Season 2
Razor
Season 3
Season 4
The Last Frakkin' Special
Underwhelming season 4 finale
The Plan

It's glorious. I've watched the series at least seven times. Everytime I always come up with the same thoughts, wish to articulate them somewhere to stir up a discussion, but always forget.

I know a lot of BSG fans are around here, so i thought I'd ask. Let us put aside the underwhelming and flawed finale... I could explain my reasons for disliking it, but this fella right here wrote a wonderful essay that articulates it better than I would care to:
»ideas.4brad.com/battlestar/battl···-fiction

Let us discuss slimeball Gaius Baltar instead. He's kind of hilarious in season 1, even likeable, but I don't think you can appreciate just how much of an ass he is until you've watched the series back to back.

Let us recapitulate:
-He frakked Six for two years, giving her unlimited access to the defense mainframe, insuring the success of the Cylon attack
-He kept Boomer's true identity a secret for his own purposes, leading to an almost dead Commander Adama
-Gave a nuclear ordnance to a Cylon (Gina) to prove his love. This led to the destruction of not only Cloud 9, but it was the explosion that allowed the Cylons to find New Caprica. This means that not only is Baltar single handily responsible for the destruction of the colonies, he's also the moron who allowed New Caprica to be discovered and destroyed as well. All for sex. Tricia Hilfier's hot dude, but not this hot.
-He manipulated a trial to escape blame, then ascended to some kind of religious zealot and formed a cult

I was truly saddened he survived at the end... I understand he was an instrument of God all along (according to the BSG mythos) and was meant to do all these things, but it would have been nice if someone found the whole truth, even if they died before revealing anything to anyone.

He died a martyr, when he should have died a genocidal murderer.

DISCUSS!


Omega
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Outside of the God references (like be orchestrated the whole thing), the biggest single problem I have with the ending is that there is no way a space faring society would be willing to become a hunter gatherer society. I could see them back tracking a little bit, but it makes no sense to get rid of all technology.
--
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Varlik
Without Honor You Will Never Be Free
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join:2002-01-06
Anderson, SC

reply to TigerLord
Them giving up their advanced technology based society to live a primitive purported simplistic life just didn't fly with me. Now if the BSG God had forced this upon them by (lets say) offering them two options. And if that was the best choice I could have accepted that. Though it still would have been somewhat lame.



Octavean
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reply to TigerLord
You left out collaborated with the Cylons on New Caprica.

I think the ending would have been more plausible if going native (no tech) was a condition of peace.



Omega
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reply to TigerLord
But even no tech doesn't mean they had to be a hunter/gatherer society. They could have lived in small villages and practiced agriculture, which is a huge step up from hunter/gatherer.
--
What smells like blue?



TigerLord
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reply to Octavean

said by Octavean:

You left out collaborated with the Cylons on New Caprica.

That's the thing: he never did. Not really.

Collaboration with the enemy is what he was charged with to justify his trial at the end of season 3 because the prosecution had a signed letter of execution with a list of names on it. But Baltar never wanted to collaborate: he was coerced to do so. For that list, he refused to sign it until Doral held a gun to his head. It's not collaboration if you're under duress.

It's another great irony in the show: the one thing he was charged with, he was actually innocent of. He was guilty of countless other horrors, but nobody had proof.


Octavean
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said by TigerLord:

said by Octavean:

You left out collaborated with the Cylons on New Caprica.

That's the thing: he never did. Not really.

Collaboration with the enemy is what he was charged with to justify his trial at the end of season 3 because the prosecution had a signed letter of execution with a list of names on it. But Baltar never wanted to collaborate: he was coerced to do so. For that list, he refused to sign it until Doral held a gun to his head. It's not collaboration if you're under duress.

It's another great irony in the show: the one thing he was charged with, he was actually innocent of. He was guilty of countless other horrors, but nobody had proof.

You are right however, he was literally in bed with the enemy during that time. Also, unlike Felix Gaeta he did nothing (If I recall correctly) to attempt to work with the resistance or under the noses of the Cylon to help the occupied people.

An elected official that does nothing for the people is always guilty of something heinous.


TigerLord
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True, he did do nothing. He popped pills, drank and frakked Six some more. That makes him a coward and nothing more or less. Being a coward isn't a crime either.

Gaeta, who did plenty, ended up getting shot by a firesquad in an airlock.

Life's a bitch.



Octavean
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Technically you are correct, being a coward isn’t a crime. However, there are many cases where cowardice in the face of duty (desertion of ones post for example) has resulted in conviction and the death penalty. A fact that I, (and I wager every man or woman who served) was keenly aware of during service in the US armed forces. These laws are still on the books so make no mistake about that.

There is a legal precedence for criminal charges for what amounts to the simple act of essentially doing nothing (US civilian or Servicemen). In fact I think there is probably at least one high profile case active now involving someone who allegedly failed to report their supposed knowledge of abuse (involving minors).

“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”
-Edmund Burke-



TigerLord
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Baltar did claim he knew Gaeta was slipping information to the resistance and he turned a blind eye, perhaps even slipping Gaeta information as well.

Of course, he was being held prisoner on Galactica pending trial/execution so it could be another one of his lies. And Gaeta did stab him in the neck with a pen, so I guess Gaeta didn't agree about Baltar helping out



seaquake
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reply to TigerLord
It's funny.....I read your initial post and the first person who comes to mind is Bill Clinton; read into that as you will

I for one liked the finale. They were stuck on those ships for several years. If they thought giving up technology would ensure their continued existence then I find it reasonable. But I can see both sides of this story.

Baltar was a fun character. He was selfish and manipulative (and got manipulated) and you never knew where he stood.



Majestik
World Traveler
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join:2001-05-11
Tulsa, OK

reply to TigerLord
I've been watching the series as well the past week on Netflix. Five more episodes to go. Eventually I will have a TV and this definitely will be part of my collection.
Just the thought of Babylon 5 with those graphics..........

Finally watched the last 10 episodes of Caprica Sunday and I can't for the life of me understand why it was canceled. Especially after watching the last episode.

With all of that out of my system....Gaius Baltar was the most amusing character throughout show.
I couldn't help but laugh when Baltar was yelling and calling Gaeta butterfingers at his trial.
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The adventure continues...Sanctuary....



TigerLord
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I loved Caprica. It was less action oriented and explored many social issues through its sci-fi lens, which was quite interesting. The writing was great.

The ratings were bad, so it was canceled. Imho, SyFy's to blame with their awful scheduling and constant changes in the airing time. It's no secret it's a shitty network that is administered by idiots... it's NBC after all.

And yes, Baltar was the greatest source of comic relief in the entire series. He was definitely a great character.



seaquake
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reply to Majestik
I tried watching an episode of Caprica and I just couldn't get into it. Never gave it a second chance. Hoping that Blood and Chrome does better.



RonS
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reply to TigerLord
How many total episodes of Caprica were there? I watched 13 episodes but I heard there were more than that made and released in Canada.
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Daarken
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The 1st season was 13 episodes, not including the mini-series.
They made a total of 75 episodes, not including Razor or The Plan.
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TigerLord
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said by Daarken:

The 1st season was 13 episodes, not including the mini-series.
They made a total of 75 episodes, not including Razor or The Plan.

Thats BSG.

He asked about Caprica.
There were 17 episodes overall.


Octavean
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reply to Majestik
I watched every episode of Caprica and while there were a few episodes I really liked, overall I was disappointed with the show as a whole. I thought it had some poor casting choices (not all but some) and the execution / implementation was off. It always seemed to have potential but rarely lived up to it.

I would hesitate to call it worthy of the name BSG. Personally I don’t understand how it lasted as long as it did, although, I am glad that they aired it. Actually I was a little surprised that they went through with the series after viewing the initial DVD release.



RonS
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reply to TigerLord

said by TigerLord:

said by Daarken:

The 1st season was 13 episodes, not including the mini-series.
They made a total of 75 episodes, not including Razor or The Plan.

Thats BSG.

He asked about Caprica.
There were 17 episodes overall.

While doing a search on torrents for episodes 14 to 17 I found an 18th episode called 'Apotheosis'.
--
Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarfs aren't happy.


darcilicious
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reply to RonS

said by RonS:

How many total episodes of Caprica were there? I watched 13 episodes but I heard there were more than that made and released in Canada.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caprica_%2···Episodes
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