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blz
@algx.net

blz

Anon

[FiOS] Unstable connection during evering hours. FIOS. WA area.

I noticed very unstable connection during 8PM-11PM time frame for last 4 months. Skype starting to croaking. Ping to Seattle servers jumps from stable 5ms to unstable 30-80ms. Pings to other US areas jumped to 150ms+. Gaming is important for me and I am seriously consider to change a ISP even to comcast.

Frontier support send me a new router, but I do not think that it will helps.

Anyone had this issue before?
Any successful stories how to fix it?
Chawk12
Premium Member
join:2011-12-26
Everett, WA

Chawk12

Premium Member

Re: [FiOS] Unstable connection during evering hours. FIOS. WA ar

I wonder if Frontier is moving their FIOS service off of Verizon's backbone? I had the same problem a few months with their DSL service. Apparently Verizon charges them quite a bit of so Frontier wants to build their own backbone

Frontier's servers I believe are in Fort Wayne IN and Rochester NY. Both are in the eastern time zone as such it would be 11 PM their time.

After 11 PM is the usual maintenance window. You think they'd have the foresight however to realize they're affecting other time zones.

Anyone say in Oregon have this problem as well?

blz
@algx.net

blz

Anon

Glad to hear that someone noticed it too.
I can post traceroutes too check which backbones they are using.

But I still think that it is just heavy overloaded network.

treich
join:2006-12-12

treich to blz

Member

to blz
Fios backbones are in Ft Wayne, Ind.

Im only 40miles away from ft.wayne so if I can get a good IP address from a fios customer I can do tracert since I got a fiber connection from ohio to indiana.

wesm
Premium Member
join:1999-07-29
Seattle, WA

wesm to Chawk12

Premium Member

to Chawk12
said by Chawk12:

I wonder if Frontier is moving their FIOS service off of Verizon's backbone? I had the same problem a few months with their DSL service. Apparently Verizon charges them quite a bit of so Frontier wants to build their own backbone

I believe Frontier has already moved Internet service off of Verizon-supplied equipment and IP addresses. When I do a traceroute, none of the hops between me and Level3 are Verizon owned:

C:\Users\wesmills>tracert 209.144.21.58
 
Tracing route to phoenix.tmb.ORG [209.144.21.58]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.7.1
  2    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  static-50-46-144-1.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net [50.46.144.1]
  3    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  G14-0-7-117.STTLWA-LCR-01.ncnetwork.net [184.19.242.24]
  4    27 ms    18 ms    18 ms  50.34.2.1
  5    20 ms    19 ms    19 ms  ae3---0.cor02.sttl.wa.frontiernet.net [74.40.1.101]
  6    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  ae1---0.cbr01.sttl.wa.frontiernet.net [74.40.5.126]
  7    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  xe-10-1-0.edge1.Seattle3.Level3.net [4.59.232.5]
 

Hop 3, ncnetwork.net, is the transitional name used by Verizon and Frontier for FiOS data but the IP address is in a block that is now owned by Frontier.

I haven't noticed high latency to or from my connection in Redmond, but maybe somewhere else on their network is having problems.

treich
join:2006-12-12

treich to blz

Member

to blz
ya I hit level3 and frontier net also:

1 3 ms 3 ms 4 ms 192.168.5.1
2 4 ms 3 ms 4 ms 192.168.0.1
3 29 ms 7 ms 4 ms 206-51-163-1.nktelco.net [206.51.163.1]
4 11 ms 9 ms 8 ms 172.20.0.1
5 62 ms 25 ms 30 ms 10.0.32.245
6 7 ms 7 ms 6 ms 10.0.32.241
7 26 ms 18 ms 18 ms gig7-46-2015.clmboh1-p-rtr01.columbus.rr.com [70
.60.140.161]
8 19 ms 23 ms 18 ms tge4-0-0.dytnoh1-pe-rtr01.mwrtn.rr.com [65.189.1
00.37]
9 21 ms 41 ms 22 ms tge3-0-0.dytnoh1-p-rtr01.mwrtn.rr.com [65.189.10
0.89]
10 41 ms 21 ms 20 ms tge4-0-0.mtgmoh1-pe-rtr01.mwrtn.rr.com [65.189.1
00.33]
11 26 ms 19 ms 19 ms tge8-0-0.mtgmoh1-p-rtr01.mwrtn.rr.com [65.189.10
0.174]
12 90 ms 32 ms 54 ms ae8.tr00.clmkohpe.mwrtn.rr.com [65.189.100.58]
13 33 ms 31 ms 30 ms ae-4-0.cr0.chi30.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.68]
14 34 ms 40 ms 36 ms ae-1-0.pr0.chi10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.155]
15 48 ms 50 ms 50 ms xe-10-0-0.edge2.Chicago2.Level3.net [4.59.28.101
]
16 53 ms 51 ms 47 ms vl-3504-ve-118.ebr1.Chicago2.Level3.net [4.69.15
8.14]
17 79 ms 75 ms 77 ms ae-3-3.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net [4.69.132.61]
18 96 ms 102 ms 91 ms ae-2-2.ebr2.Seattle1.Level3.net [4.69.132.53]
19 104 ms 91 ms 127 ms ae-2-52.edge1.Seattle3.Level3.net [4.69.147.170]

20 98 ms 96 ms 98 ms CITIZENS-CO.edge1.Seattle3.Level3.net [4.59.232.
6]
21 101 ms 100 ms 98 ms ae2---0.cor02.sttl.wa.frontiernet.net [74.40.5.1
25]
22 110 ms 113 ms 108 ms ae0---0.car01.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net [74.40.1.1
02]
23 102 ms 101 ms 103 ms 50.34.2.2
24 123 ms 111 ms 107 ms static-50-46-144-1.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net [50.4
6.144.1]

blz
@frontiernet.net

blz

Anon

This is exactly my first hop which you pinged.
I do not have lags right now but still ping does not look like stable one:

2012-01-05 01:41:45: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=7ms
2012-01-05 01:41:46: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=7ms
2012-01-05 01:41:47: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=8ms
2012-01-05 01:41:48: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=15ms
2012-01-05 01:41:49: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=10ms
2012-01-05 01:41:50: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=9ms
2012-01-05 01:41:51: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=13ms
2012-01-05 01:41:52: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=17ms
2012-01-05 01:41:53: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=41ms
2012-01-05 01:41:54: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=17ms
2012-01-05 01:41:55: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=29ms
2012-01-05 01:41:56: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=8ms
2012-01-05 01:41:57: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=8ms
2012-01-05 01:41:58: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=9ms
2012-01-05 01:41:59: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=11ms
2012-01-05 01:42:00: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=7ms
2012-01-05 01:42:01: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=15ms
2012-01-05 01:42:02: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=21ms
2012-01-05 01:42:03: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=32ms
2012-01-05 01:42:04: Reply from 50.46.144.1: time=8ms

sharkdanger
@frontiernet.net

sharkdanger to treich

Anon

to treich
Yeah, I'm in Bothell and have noticed the same thing over the last month. Netflix streaming has come to a halt and not even usable between 8-11pm. Seems to clear up after that. Speed tests are only showing around 1-4mbps for a wired connection. I normally get 9mbps. Seeing extremely high latency when tracert'ing to Netflix and other sites:

C:\Users\Matt>tracert moviecontrol.netflix.com

Tracing route to nccp-moviecontrol-frontend-1712188921.us-east-1.elb.amazonaws.com [204.236.229.171]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms myrouter.home [192.168.2.1]
2 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms static-50-46-224-1.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net [50.46.224.1]
3 91 ms 88 ms 96 ms 50.34.2.153
4 160 ms 161 ms 158 ms ae3---0.cor01.sttl.wa.frontiernet.net [74.40.1.153]
5 159 ms 157 ms 173 ms ae0---0.cor02.sttl.wa.frontiernet.net [74.40.3.138]
6 155 ms 162 ms 160 ms xe--11-0-0---0.cor01.mond.mn.frontiernet.net [74.40.5.45]
7 153 ms 152 ms 159 ms ae0---0.cor01.lkvl.mn.frontiernet.net [74.40.5.53]
8 161 ms 151 ms 148 ms ae4---0.cor01.chcg.il.frontiernet.net [74.40.5.50]
9 155 ms 158 ms 158 ms ae0---0.cor02.chcg.il.frontiernet.net [74.40.3.242]
10 157 ms 150 ms 156 ms ae1---0.cor01.asbn.va.frontiernet.net [74.40.2.194]
11 154 ms 160 ms 174 ms ae1---0.cbr01.asbn.va.frontiernet.net [74.40.2.174]
12 158 ms 205 ms 159 ms equinix02-iad2.amazon.com [206.223.115.35]
nightjars
join:2010-01-09
Bothell, WA

nightjars to blz

Member

to blz
I had problems last night for the first time in months. Latency was about 80ms above normal, and my bandwidth on speed tests was about a third or less than what it normally/should be. Hopefully this is just a short lived problem and is going to be resolved. Before last night though, I got my full bandwidth and excellent latency no matter what the time of day. I'm north of Bothell near Mill Creek.

blz
@algx.net

blz

Anon

The problem is persistent for the last few months, so I hope everyone who has it will contact technical support.

sharkdanger
@frontiernet.net

sharkdanger

Anon

I contacted support last night and the tech I spoke to said they have been getting calls on this issue throughout Oregon and Washington for about a month and that they are well aware of the problem. He stated that they have no ETR but told me to keep calling back every couple of nights for an update.

Flea7
@frontiernet.net

Flea7 to sharkdanger

Anon

to sharkdanger
im in bothell and I'm experiencing the same thing.
Evening hours are very unstable.

I called the techs 3 times in the last 6 months. another field tech is coming out on sat. for the 3rd time.

I'm about to drop frontier. ever since verizon handover to frontier it has gone down hill.

blz
@frontiernet.net

blz

Anon

Also I noticed that routing inside level3 to NY is crazy:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 5 ms 6 ms 5 ms static-50-46-144-1.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net [50.46.144.1]
3 12 ms 12 ms 14 ms 50.34.2.181
4 18 ms 17 ms 17 ms ae3---0.cor02.sttl.wa.frontiernet.net [74.40.1.101]
5 119 ms 83 ms 80 ms ae1---0.cbr01.sttl.wa.frontiernet.net [74.40.5.126]
6 41 ms 40 ms 37 ms xe-10-1-0.edge1.Seattle3.Level3.net [4.59.232.5]
7 39 ms 40 ms 50 ms ae-32-52.ebr2.Seattle1.Level3.net [4.69.147.182]
8 57 ms 52 ms 53 ms ae-2-2.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net [4.69.132.54]
9 71 ms 74 ms 76 ms ae-3-3.ebr1.Chicago2.Level3.net [4.69.132.62]
10 148 ms 155 ms 150 ms ae-6-6.ebr1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.69.140.189]
11 158 ms 152 ms 156 ms ae-2-2.ebr2.NewYork2.Level3.net [4.69.132.66]
12 171 ms 153 ms 157 ms ae-6-6.ebr2.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.141.21]
13 124 ms 118 ms 109 ms ae-82-82.csw3.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.148.42]
14 166 ms 225 ms 242 ms ae-33-80.car3.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.155.133]
15 164 ms 167 ms 168 ms PILOSOFT-IN.car3.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.53.88.10]
16 164 ms 163 ms 153 ms 69.172.128.1

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 5 ms 6 ms 5 ms static-50-46-144-1.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net [50.46.144.1]
3 12 ms 12 ms 14 ms 50.34.2.181
4 18 ms 17 ms 17 ms ae3---0.cor02.sttl.wa.frontiernet.net [74.40.1.101]
5 119 ms 83 ms 80 ms ae1---0.cbr01.sttl.wa.frontiernet.net [74.40.5.126]
6 41 ms 40 ms 37 ms xe-10-1-0.edge1.Seattle3.Level3.net [4.59.232.5]
7 39 ms 40 ms 50 ms ae-32-52.ebr2.Seattle1.Level3.net [4.69.147.182]
8 57 ms 52 ms 53 ms ae-2-2.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net [4.69.132.54]
9 71 ms 74 ms 76 ms ae-3-3.ebr1.Chicago2.Level3.net [4.69.132.62]
10 148 ms 155 ms 150 ms ae-6-6.ebr1.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.69.140.189]
11 158 ms 152 ms 156 ms ae-2-2.ebr2.NewYork2.Level3.net [4.69.132.66]
12 171 ms 153 ms 157 ms ae-6-6.ebr2.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.141.21]
13 124 ms 118 ms 109 ms ae-82-82.csw3.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.148.42]
14 166 ms 225 ms 242 ms ae-33-80.car3.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.155.133]
15 164 ms 167 ms 168 ms PILOSOFT-IN.car3.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.53.88.10]
16 164 ms 163 ms 153 ms 69.172.128.1

Strange jump by 80ms in Chicago.
Chawk12
Premium Member
join:2011-12-26
Everett, WA

Chawk12 to blz

Premium Member

to blz
Does this problem occur on the weekend or only during the week?

When I had a similar problem with my DSL service a few months ago things worked fine from 8PM-11PM on the weekend. That's why my suspicions are someone back east is working on the network.

blz
@algx.net

blz

Anon

I did not use a computer on last Saturday and Sunday but the problem occur on Monday the 2nd which was non-working day.

Yesterday, Frontier representative called me and said that they have some moving changes in their network during last 4 weeks and this work should be finished on 12th of January.
She said that I can contact billing department and they will add credit to my account.

patriotdow
@frontiernet.net

patriotdow to blz

Anon

to blz
Throwing my name into the hat. I am also in Bothell and have had slowness with Frontier especially fluctuating upload and download speeds. I normally get a consistent 35/35mbps but now I never hit that and am Lucky to give 10-15 during those hours- try the next morning and problem has magically disappeared. I started noticing on Saturday 01/07/11
patriotdow

patriotdow to blz

Anon

to blz
Spoke to a FIOS rep last night in West Virginia who initially didn't want to file a ticket/log an outage for the Bothell issue because he hadn't had any other reports. I referred him to the DSLreports thread here and he called me back and said they were treating this as an "outage". I wasn't able to get a ticket number or anything but I hope that means they are actually working on it. However, I'm a bit concerned we keep getting different answers. E.g., network outage, network maintenance, no problems here!

I encourage you all to call in and report this issue.
nightjars
join:2010-01-09
Bothell, WA

nightjars to blz

Member

to blz
Latency graph:

»imgur.com/MBcvu

Green line is me (FiOS), Pink, red, and blue are all friends of mine who are all on Comcast. Latency measurements are being taken from a friend's machine at his work on a business class DS3 connection. Pretty reliable unreliability.

I've been e-mailing back and forth with the fiber support center in Everett, I haven't seen any explanation yet. If I find anything out, i'll let everybody here know though.

Ben J
My spoon is too big
Premium Member
join:2011-09-16
Elk Grove, CA

Ben J to blz

Premium Member

to blz
I'm looking into this for you guys.
Ben J

1 edit

1 recommendation

Ben J to blz

Premium Member

to blz
We've identified a configuration error on the FIOS systems servicing a subset of markets in the Seattle and Portland areas which was introduced during recent upgrades to the network. The error is artificially limiting the peak downstream capacity in these markets by about 50%. There's an emergency maintenance window scheduled for tonight to implement a fix. We've also fixed the upgrade procedure so this won't happen on the next one, are auditing the other markets to be sure we clean this up fully, and will be working with the FSC to ensure issues like this get better escalation next time around.

Sorry about that guys,
--Ben
(Your friendly resident FIOS/Content Architect)

EDIT: added Portland

darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium Member
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR

darcilicious

Premium Member

Nice. Thanks for pursuing this and for posting about the cause and planned fix. Very nice.
Cyberian75
join:2004-03-16
Beaverton, OR

1 edit

Cyberian75 to Ben J

Member

to Ben J
Does this also affect Beaverton, Oregon?

I've been getting only about 19/18 for the last few weeks. I'm on 25/25.

Ben J
My spoon is too big
Premium Member
join:2011-09-16
Elk Grove, CA

Ben J

Premium Member

It does, but the symptoms for this issue would be inconsistent speeds that change at different times throughout the day, not a sudden hard limit all the time. That sounds more like a provisioning issue. Call in to the FSC and have them look at your profile.
Cyberian75
join:2004-03-16
Beaverton, OR

Cyberian75 to Ben J

Member

to Ben J
said by Ben J:

The error is artificially limiting the peak downstream capacity in these markets by about 50%.

That sounds like it would affect overall speeds. I'll wait until the dust settles.

Thanks.

Ben J
My spoon is too big
Premium Member
join:2011-09-16
Elk Grove, CA

Ben J

Premium Member

Sorry, I should have specified more clearly. The issue is affecting bandwidth shared across everybody in the area, and only during really busy periods. It would appear to you as congestion, and your speed tests would be all over the place when it was happening, and normal the rest of the time. If you're getting a lower speed all day every day and are never getting your advertised speed, it's not likely related to this issue and you shouldn't wait to call in.

But either way you decide to play let, let me know if you don't get the response you'd like out of customer support and I'll see if I can poke someone in the FSC for you.
Cyberian75
join:2004-03-16
Beaverton, OR

Cyberian75

Member

Okay, thanks.

I was able to reach 3MB up until a few weeks ago, that's why.

Markon101
@frontiernet.net

Markon101

Anon

Same here in WV, slow at night. in the day I get about 5.86Mbps down and .32Mbps up. At night it dips down to around 1.4-2.4Mbps down, and .32 up. Started about two months ago.

darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium Member
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
·Ziply Fiber

darcilicious

Premium Member

said by Markon101 :

Same here in WV, slow at night. in the day I get about 5.86Mbps down and .32Mbps up. At night it dips down to around 1.4-2.4Mbps down, and .32 up. Started about two months ago.

You need to start a new thread for DSL in WV -- this one is about FIOS in WA and OR

Ben J
My spoon is too big
Premium Member
join:2011-09-16
Elk Grove, CA

2 edits

Ben J

Premium Member

Alright, you guys in the FIOS areas should be good to go now. Please post your results this evening.

Markon101,

What city are you in?

EDIT: (Removed the prior comment as on 2nd read it sounded like I was being dismissive of the users complaint, which was not at all my intent.)
Ben J

1 recommendation

Ben J to Chawk12

Premium Member

to Chawk12
said by Chawk12:

I wonder if Frontier is moving their FIOS service off of Verizon's backbone? I had the same problem a few months with their DSL service. Apparently Verizon charges them quite a bit of so Frontier wants to build their own backbone

Frontier's servers I believe are in Fort Wayne IN and Rochester NY. Both are in the eastern time zone as such it would be 11 PM their time.

Frontier is entirely migrated off the VZ backbone. The remaining work in FIOS revolves around retiring out and replacing the older end of life equipment we received in the acquisition. You may start to see changes away from some "ncnetwork.net" hops and toward new "frontiernet.net" hops as that happens. Both are Frontier owned.

The support systems for FIOS and most of the prior VZ territories are hosted in Seattle, WA and Fort Wayne, IN. The original Frontier systems ("Legacy") are in Rochester NY, Chicago IL, California and Arizona.