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Adalicia
PoM Nom Nom 'Mon

join:2009-10-13
Columbus, NE
kudos:12

1 recommendation

[SWTOR] Smuggler - Scoundrel Compendium

Introduction

As we seem to have a fairly large number of people currently playing Star Wars: The Old Republic I figured it'd be a good time to start a thread for the Smuggler Advanced Class, the Scoundrel.

Much like I did during Rift with the Cleric calling, as well as the Priest class in World of Warcraft, I personally will be focusing on the healing (Sawbones) side of things, but I'll also be talking fairly in depth in later posts about the Scrapper (DPS / PvP Centric) tree and play style. Dirty Fighting (DPS) I'll leave to someone else who has played around with it or wait until I've had a chance to do so myself.

I encourage all Scoundrel players (or their Imperial Agent equivalent) to add any useful information, theorycrafting, builds, or to simply discuss the various aspects of the class.

As I'm currently at work I do not have access to Talent Calculators so there will be no links to my personal choice of builds for Sawbones or Scrapper, but they will be added in a separate post at a later time.

Stat Priority

Just so this initial post doesn't look completely worthless I'll very quickly mention what our general stat priority will look like. This is just a general guide, it will work for all three specs and even the Gunslinger Advanced Class, but depending on role and tree the stats could potentially shift a bit.

1.) Cunning
2.) Critical Strike Rating
3.) Surge Rating
4.) Power
5.) Alacrity

Cunning is our most important stat. It'll give us bonus Tech Damage and Tech Healing as well as Critical Strike (albeit at a fairly unimpressive rate). Power does the same thing (sans the Critical Strike part) but the ratio is terrible, as in .23 per point in terms of bonus damage and .17 per point for bonus healing.

While Cunning actually has less impressive ratios, every piece of our gear (and I do mean literally every piece) will have Cunning on it and gobs of it. Power on the other hand is more hard to come by and usually at the cost of Critical Strike or Surge Rating.

Critical Strike is important for Sawbones simply because of how Diagnostic Scan works in conjunction with our Energy Regen, which is something I'll discuss more in depth in a later post, and equally important for Scrappers as you are a burst "fuck it - big numbers" type of DPS.

Surge Rating, which increases the amount of your bonus to damage / healing from a critical past the base 150%, is self explanatory.

Alacrity is basically Haste. I have yet to test if this affects the channel time of Diagnostic Scan. With a high enough Critical Strike Rating, assuming Alacrity does reduce the channel time of Diagnostic Scan, Alacrity will become a much more appealing throughput stat.

And just so it doesn't get lost under page after page in the original thread here are the numbers players will be dealing with when it comes to Critical Strike and Surge Rating, as well as the diminishing returns on those two stats.

Critical Strike Table:

1% = 23 (23)
2% = 23.6 (46.6)
3% = 24.2 (70.8)
4% = 24.8 (95.6)
5% = 25.4 (121)
6% = 26 (147)
7% = 26.6 (173.6)
8% = 27.2 (200.8)
9% = 27.8 (228.6)
10% = 28.4 (257)
11% = 29 (286)
12% = 29.6 (315.6)
13% = 30.2 (345.8)
14% = 30.8 (376.6)
15% = 31.4 (408)
16% = 32 (440)
17% = 32.6 (472.6)
18% = 33.2 (505.8)
19% = 33.8 (539.6)
20% = 34.4 (574)
21% = 35 (609)
22% = 35.6 (644.6)
23% = 36.2 (680.8)
24% = 36.8 (717.6)
25% = 37.4 (755)
26% = 38 (793)

Surge Rating Table:

1% = 5 (5)
2% = 5.2 (10.2)
3% = 5.4 (15.6)
4% = 5.6 (21.2)
5% = 5.8 (27)
6% = 6 (33)
7% = 6.2 (39.2)
8% = 6.4 (45.6)
9% = 6.6 (52.2)
10% = 6.8 (59)
11% = 7 (66)
12% = 7.2 (73.2)
13% = 7.4 (80.6)
14% = 7.6 (88.2)
15% = 7.8 (96)
16% = 8 (104)
17% = 8.2 (112.2)
18% = 8.4 (120.6)
19% = 8.6 (129.2)
20% = 8.8 (138)
21% = 9 (147)

15% = 7.8 (96)
20% = 8.8 (138)
25% = 9.8 (185)
30% = 10.8 (247.4)
35% = 11.8 (304.4)
40% = 12.8 (366.4)
45% = 13.8 (433.4)
50% = 14.8 (505.4)

As I mentioned in the Introduction portion of this post I will be adding stuff as we go along and once again I encourage all of you to do so as well. Thanks.
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Raid Leader. Healing Priest. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.

Josof

join:2010-10-23
Virginia Beach, VA

Great guide Ada! Hopefully we can compile similar guides for the rest of the classes.



Adalicia
PoM Nom Nom 'Mon

join:2009-10-13
Columbus, NE
kudos:12
reply to Adalicia

Okay, apologies on taking so long, when I'm not at work I've been too busy actually playing the game to access talent calculators and update this, and sadly resources are of course blocked at work.

So, I guess we're going to do this the messy way. No links for you bastards.

I'm going to slowly add this. These are the current talent builds I'm using, starting with my PvE Healing build. I'm not going to be a smug asshole and say these are the only viable options, but I believe they are solid. Builds will be by tier and from left to right. I will include choices that I didn't put points in to keep things from being super confusing.

Talent Builds:

Healing Build - PvE Level 50

Sawbones Tree

Tier One:

Exploratory Surgery: 2/2

Reduces the activation time of Underworld Medicine by 0.5 seconds and gives Underworld Medicine a 100% chance to grant Upper Hand.

Anatomy Lessons: 0/2

Reduces the energy cost of Vital Shot, Dirty Kick and Tendon Blast by 2 / 4.

Bedside Manner: 3/3

Increases total Cunning by 9%



Tier Two:

Keep Cool: 2/2

Cool head now immediately restores 16 additional energy.

Healing Hand: 3/3

Increases all healing dealt by 3% at all times and an additional 6% while Upper Hand is active.

Smuggled Technology: 2/2

Reduces the pushback suffered while activating healing abilities by 70% and reduces the threat generated by heals by 10%.

Scar Tissue: 2/2

Reduces all damage taken by 4%.



Tier Three:

Prognosis: Critical: 2/2

Increases the critical chance of Diagnostic Scan by 24%

Slow-release Medpac: 1/1

Slow-release Medpac

Instant
Energy: 15
Range: 30 Meters

Injects the target with slow-release medicine that heals for 280 (base) over 18 seconds. Stacks up to 2 times.

Sedatives: 0/2

When Tranquilizer wears off, the target is struck by Sedatives, reducing all damage dealt by 25% / 50% for the next 10 seconds.



Tier Four:

Patient Studies: 2/2

Diagnostic Scan critical hits restore 2 energy.

Medpac Mastery: 3/3

Each tick of Slow-release Medpac has a 30% chance to grant Upper Hand. This effect cannot occur more than once every 9 seconds. Each rank beyond the first reduces this rate limit by 1.5 seconds.

Scramble: 0/2

Dodge increases movement speed by 10% / 20% while active.



Tier Five:

Psych Meds: 1/1

Triage now removes negative mental effects and heals the target for 0.

Homegrown Pharmacology: 2/2

Increase the healing dealt by periodic effects by 10% and Emergency Medpac by 6%.

Emergency Medpac: 1/1

Emergency Medpac

Instant
Range: 30 meters

Exploits Upper Hand to instantly heal the target for 106-273 (base). Requires and consumes Upper Hand.

Emergent Emergencies: 1/1

Increases the healing dealt by Emergency Medpac by 15%. In addition, Emergency Medpac immediately regrants Upper Hand when used on targets below 30% max health.



Tier Six:

Med Screen: 0/2

Increases all healing received by 7.5% / 15% while Defense Screen is active.

Accomplished Sawbones: 3/3

Increase the critical healing bonus of Underworld Medicine, Kolto Pack, and Kolto Cloud by 15%.



Tier Seven:

Kolto Cloud: 1/1

Kolto Cloud

Instant
Energy: 30
Range: 30 meters

Heals up to 4 allies within 10 meters for 267 (base) over 15 seconds.



Scrapper Tree:

Tier One:

Element of Surprise: 0/2

Increases the Critical hit chance of Back Blast and Shoot First by 8% /16%.

Browbeater: 0/2

Increases the damage dealt by Vital Shot by 6% / 12% / 18% and Flechette Round by 3% / 6% / 9%.

Survivor's Scars: 3/3

Increases all healing done by 3% and all healing received by 9%



Dirty Fighting Tree:

Tier One:

Black Market Mods: 2/2

Increases alacrity by 4%

No Holds Barred: 3/3

Increase ranged and tech critical chance by 6%

Hold Out Defense: 0/2

Increases the damage dealt by Blaster Whip by 5% / 10%



Total Points Remaining: 2

These last two points are floating points, you can place them where you like. Probably the most useful place would be in Med Screen in the sixth tier in the Sawbones tree from a PvE stand point but really, it doesn't matter. Technically Scramble would be another option, popping your Dodge ability when you need book it out of something bad. Basically, put it some where that is going to be actually beneficial. Sticking it in Hold Out Defense might sound like a good idea but you're never going to running up and slapping a mob with your pistol...so try to remember you are healing.

Play style, recommended "rotations" (there isn't one but there is a flow) and some tips and tricks in my next post. Later in the week I'll post an amended PvP centric one, along with a Scrapper PvE and PvP based DPS spec.
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Raid Leader. Healing Priest. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.


bTU

join:2009-04-22
Aurora, CO
reply to Adalicia

I know you're doing healing spec right now, but any idea of how accuracy impacts DPS builds for this or any other class. Maybe even tanks? I hate firing off a burst from a blaster and seeing a couple of misses in with the dmg numbers flying around.



Adalicia
PoM Nom Nom 'Mon

join:2009-10-13
Columbus, NE
kudos:12

Accuracy functions as Hit rating. Your base Accuracy is something like 90% on your white hits, 100% of yellow hits. Anything past 100% works against target resistances, so Dodge / Parry and so on.

I know accuracy has an impact on DPS in PvE. I know it has an impact in PvP. I do NOT know what the numbers are that players should aim for.
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Raid Leader. Healing Priest. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.



Adalicia
PoM Nom Nom 'Mon

join:2009-10-13
Columbus, NE
kudos:12

Okay, did a bit of research, unsure on PvE but the following can be assumed for PvP:

100% is needed to hit a target. It does not take into effect Dodge or Parry. Each class has a base of 5% Defense, or a 5% chance for them to Dodge or Parry an attack (excluding any defensive cool downs like the Smuggler's Dodge ability).

Therefore, in PvP you want to have 105% Accuracy, at the very least. For tanks it would be entirely possible for them to have 15% or 20%, significantly higher than the base 5%.
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Raid Leader. Healing Priest. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.



Adalicia
PoM Nom Nom 'Mon

join:2009-10-13
Columbus, NE
kudos:12
reply to Adalicia

Okay, so, we talked about the talent build for PvE healing, now lets talk about the tools you're going to have and how you use them.

For those of you that know me from the Warcraft Boards and more specifically the Priest thread, you'll know I absolutely hate the idea of healers having a rotation, as healing is almost always situational and reaction based, and you know I love the idea of using every tool in your tool box, even the ones that seem like they're complete shit.

Well, at this point there is no real rotation but rather a priority system and our tool box isn't exactly huge but certainly acceptable. So, lets start out with exactly what abilities you're going to have access to and use frequently:

Healing:

1.) Underworld Medicine: Underworld Medicine is our basic large but slow heal. It is fairly energy inefficient but not painfully so. Use will grant one stack of Upper Hand.

2.) Diagnostic Scan: This is our channeled heal. The actual heal amount is very small but it will have a very high critical strike chance and with some talent points will restore two energy per critical strike tick. This is our filler ability.

3.) Kolto Pack: Kolto Pack is our fast and relatively expensive heal. It doesn't heal for as much as Underworld Medicine, it will consume Upper Hand, and the energy cost is only slightly less than Underworld Medicine. The trade off is, assuming you have one stack of Upper Hand, a very fast heal.

4.) Slow-Release Medpac: This is our HoT. It will last for 18 seconds, stacks up to two times, has a very low energy cost, and can be maintained on multiple targets. At the very least this should always be kept on the tank and maintained at two stacks. Has a chance to grant Upper Hand. Due to a weak healing UI this ability is a pain in the ass to monitor.

5.) Emergency Medpac: This is our instant cast heal. It does requires one stack of Upper Hand but on targets at or below 30% it will consume but regrant Upper Hand. Most energy efficient ability we have as it requires zero energy, it is spammable assuming you have Upper Hand stacks to exploit, it can heal for an acceptable amount, and once again it is instant cast.

6.) Triage: This is our dispel. Talented for better dispel coverage. It does have a cool down and energy cost. It is NOT spammable.

7.) Kolto Cloud: This is our AoE heal. It is very energy inefficient. It should only used in large AoE damage emergencies.

Cool Downs:

1.) Cool Head: Energy restoration cool down. It has a fairly short CD time but it should be saved for emergencies or in preparation for periods during an encounter where you know you're going to be spending massive amounts of energy.

2.) Dodge: Defensive cooldown. Increases your dodge chance by 100% for three seconds. Very situational.

3.) Escape: This is your PvP trinket that removes all stun and movement impairing effects on a two minute cool down. It can and will have applications in PvE since it is baseline and does not require a relic slot.

4.) Disappearing Act: This is basically Vanish. Any damage from DoTs will break stealth.

5.) All In: This is your companion cooldown on a twenty minute cool down. It is decent but nothing amazing and requires you to have a companion out making it null and void during actual group content.

6.) Defense Screen: Think of this as a personal Paladin Bubble. It absorbs damage for 15 seconds and is on a 45 second cool down. This is a very strong cool down.

Crowd Control:

1.) Tranquilize: Puts the target to sleep. Requires you to be in stealth and neither you nor the target can be in combat. Lasts for one minute, any damage will break the CC. This is Sap.

2.) Flash Bang: Stuns enemies for a brief period, currently on a 90 second cool down, may be dropped to 60 seconds to match the Imerial Agent mirror. Not the most reliable CC but it can buy you a bit of time if an enemy comes over to beat on your face.

Mechanical Buff / Resource System:

1.) Pugnacity: Consumes one stack of Upper Hand to grant increased Energy regeneration. This should be up 100% of the time. Period. No question. This must be up. Last 45 seconds.

2.) Upper Hand: This is your extra resource system. It can stack up to two times, but no higher, it can be refreshed and consumed, and consumption does not reset the time left on any additional stacks. It lasts for a short time but is easy to stack.

Summary:

So basically healing works like this, you maintain two stacks of Upper Hand at all times. Upper Hand will be granted in three ways:

1.) You use Underworld Medicine
2.) You get a proc from Slow-Release Medpac due to talent Medpac Mastery.
3.) You use Upper Hand to exploit Emergency Medpac and are re-awarded Upper Hand due to talent Emergent Emergencies.

You want to ensure you have Pugnacity up at all times.

You want to ensure that your tank has two stacks of Slow-Release Medpac. This needs to be refreshed every time. Do not let it fall off as you'll need to spend 30 energy to apply two stacks once more versus 15 energy once every now and then to refresh it.

If someone is taking a small amount of damage that is random and they're unlikely to die, use Slow-Release Medpac on them as well.

If someone is taking a larger amount of damage that is random and they're unlikely to die, you can use Slow-Release Medpac or you can use Underworld Healing, exploit Upper Hand for a Kolto Pack (not recommended), or hit them with Emergency Medpac if they are under 30% (as it will not consume Upper Hand).

If someone has a debuff that MUST be removed, use Triage but be aware that it does have a cool down, it is not spammable, and there is an energy cost associated with it.

For tank specific healing you will have a kind of rotation and generally it'll look something like this:

Underworld Medicine
Pugnacity
Slow-Release Medpac
Slow-Release Medpac

From here you switch to priority mode. If the tank needs a bigger heal, Underworld Medicine. If Slow-Release Medpac needs to be refreshed, you refresh it. If Pugnacity is off cool down, you use it. If the tank is in the danger zone use Emergency Medpac if they're under 30% (or you can't afford not to) and follow up with either Kolto Pack or the Underworld Medicine to Kolto Pack combo. The latter will use 50 energy and consume one stack of Upper Hand but also heal for an impressive amount.

If there is a massive amount of AoE damage that you have to heal as a group, use Kolto Cloud but be aware: it is extremely expensive and it heals over time.

Use Defense Screen as needed. Use Cool Head as needed. Ensure that dispels are happening if needed.

Finally, if none of that needs to be happening you will be using Diagnostic Scan. Diagnostic Scan doesn't heal for shit but during the channel time it will tick three times. If all three ticks critical you just got 6 extra energy. It is our filler. It is our regeneration ability that pushes us beyond the passive regen and it is affected by haste. Due to the fact that it is affected by haste it makes haste an option for gearing. We'll spend energy faster with our normal casts but we'll also earn it back quicker through shorter channel times on Diagnostic Scan.

Ideally you want to keep your Energy higher than 40% and ideally in the 60% to 80% range but that isn't always possible. This is another time when using Diagnostic Scan is acceptable as you need to make sure you're at least in the 40% to 80% range or your regeneration will be terrible.

Anyway, that is healing in a PvE environment in a nut shell.
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Raid Leader. Healing Priest. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.



Adalicia
PoM Nom Nom 'Mon

join:2009-10-13
Columbus, NE
kudos:12
reply to Adalicia

I don't have time to do a large in-depth post about it but I had several people message me with a request as to what talent build I'm using for PvP as a Scrapper based Scoundrel. The build can be found here.

There are other options, such as dropping 2 points from Bedside Manner for Shifty-eyed but I just don't see how 6% Cunning would outweigh a pathetic amount of Defense and a small boost to stealth detection. You're squishy as fuck when you're out of stealth so you might as well maximize the damage output on your opener and hope for the best.

Your Opener will look like this:

Stealth
Flechette Round
Shoot First
Back Blast
Sucker Punch

Now you have to decide where you want to go and based on who you're fighting.

Tendon Rip if you don't want them to get away or you get knocked back.
Blaster Whip if they ain't going anywhere.
Sucker Punch if you have a stack of Upper Hand available.
Flechette Round if Back Blast is coming off cool down.
Back Blast if it is off CD and you have a Flechette Round loaded.
Vital Shot if it is going to be a while.
Pugnacity if it isn't up.
Quick Shot if nothing else and you have Energy to burn.
Frag Grenade if there are more than four enemies.
XF Freight Flyby if there is a shit ton or you're defending something, like a bomb cap / disarm, turret, etc.
Dirty Kick if Resolve bar is gone.
And for the love of fuck interrupt when you can.

Remember your CD's:

Defense Screen: Semi useful, generally have to blow it when you Vanish.
Disappearing Act: Escape some times, can be used to do a back to back opener on someone you really fucking hate.
Flash Bang: Broken until patch, 30 second longer CD than it should have, shit range, any damage breaks.
Dodge: Slightly useful depending on enemy, two piece Enforcer gear makes it slightly better.
Smuggle: Fucking...just lol.

Shoot for targets that are away from the center of the cluster fuck, healers should be ideal. Try to avoid targets that have Force Armor on them as that stupid fucking bubble with absorb your entire Shoot First until you're Battle Master geared, rocking the Damage Power up, and popped a trinket for good measure.

Just like playing a Rogue it is all about control. Control your target, control when you attack, control where you are, and control how they react. Unless you get significantly out played, out geared, or you're dumb enough to fuck with a piece of shit Bounty Hunter, you'll win in a 1v1 situation where you get the drop and there is no interference.
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Raid Leader. Healing Priest. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.



Adalicia
PoM Nom Nom 'Mon

join:2009-10-13
Columbus, NE
kudos:12

I'm also going to leave a disclaimer before I go to bed:

Currently there is a thread on the SW:TOR official forums that is about 110 pages (at the time of writing this) long on how Scoundrels and Operatives are overpowered.

While the thread is hilarious in itself, as it is so full of misinformation, blatant trolling, and people who are getting wrecked by Champion / Battlemaster geared players on their level 21 Sage, it goes without saying that when a community backlash is this high that there could be possible nerfs in our future.

I'm going to tell you this right fucking now:

IF Scrapper DPS is nerfed you god damn well better like healing in PvP or have another toon to play. Sawbones will become the ONLY viable spec if they nerf the burst damage or the stun talent to Scrapper. No amount of sustained DPS buffs post opener will fix it as we're not only resource based in energy and secondary via Upper Hand, but we're also melee.

Unless they want to buff Sucker Punch and Blaster Whip to twice what it currently is, there is no way we will have any for of sustainable damage, buffs or no, if they decide that is what they need to do.

So, if Scrapper Burst is nerfed, which it might be (depends on how quick Bioware wants to cave on nerd rage from level 15's getting rolled) be prepared to roll Sawbones or reroll. Dirty Fighting isn't viable. Scrapper is only viable due to the burst aspect.

Hopefully with 1.1 tomorrow and the 50 Only Bracket, we'll see the QQ drop off because the vocal minority aren't 50, they aren't geared, they don't know how to PvP, and half the time their flat out feeding lines of bullshit numbers.

Point in case, the first post:

said by SomeDumbShit :

So me and another level 50 runs op to cap this point in the Alderaan warzone. Out of nowhere this scoundrel opens up and obliterates the other lvl 50 before I can even react. He then vanishes and opens up on me with a stun.

At this point im thinking surely he cannot do the same thing to me, he just did to the other guy 8 seconds ago. Boy was I wrong.

STUN
4.7k
3.8k
3.0k
STUN OVER

At this point I have about 10% of my hp left and the fight is over. He just creamed the both of us in less than 20 seconds and hes still got 90% hp left.

And tbh this is not the only time I've witnessed these scenarios with scoundrels completely destroying people in a single stun. This needs to be addressed immediatly.

He doesn't mention class but he does mention "damage" and generic numbers.

His generic numbers add up to about 11,500 health (plus 10% which would be another 1,150), which is pretty much the average for anyone who isn't in Centurion / Champion / Battlemaster Gear, depending on a few aspects of class. To be honest I've seen 30's have 13,000 in a Warzone that weren't tanks so this is pretty much not helping anyone figure out just what his problem is.

He says "me and another 50" runs to cap, if they're 50 I'll eat my shoe.

What supposedly happened was:

Flechette
Shoot First
Back Blast
Sucker Punch
Disappearing Act

He did it so fast the other player could not "react" to three GCD's, or 4.5 seconds. So clearly, he is a sloth.

Then, our daring Scoundrel repeats the same process. I lol'd.

With said numbers, the player in question is full Champion Gear with the Damage Power Up and probably used a trinket or the expertise pot, or Battlemaster if shit head here is a "geared 50" (he isn't). Probably not Battlemaster, and proc'd a crit on Shoot First, Back Blast, and Sucker Punch with the latter proc-ing Flying Fists and then repeated it (with the latter being limited to once every 10 seconds) to the second retard. Champion gear will get you about 35% base critical strike rate with 65-70% surge (read 15 to 20% for those that are retarded).

So, unrealistic numbers aside...In 4.5 seconds if you can't hit one instant cast DoT to tag the stealther you deserve to have your asshole ripped apart by a wolverine. It is this kind of posts that fill said thread. Just flat bullshit, crying from bad players, and crying from level 12's getting wrecked.

But I felt it is my duty to warn you of what could be. SO, if you're thinking about playing a Scoundrel or Operative for PvP purposes, be ready to like healing because if any nerf goes through it'll be the only way you'll be viable. Cheers.
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Raid Leader. Healing Priest. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.


Adalicia
PoM Nom Nom 'Mon

join:2009-10-13
Columbus, NE
kudos:12

Whelp, it is going to happen.

Scoundrel

Flechette Round: Now provides 30% armor penetration while active.

K.O.: This ability now knocks the target down for 1.5 seconds.

Shoot First: The damage output of this ability has been decreased by approximately 20% to control burst damage and because it was enabling significantly faster than intended kills in PvP.

Operative

Acid Blade: Now provides 30% armor penetration while active.

Jarring Strike: This ability now knocks the target down for 1.5 seconds.

Hidden Strike: The damage output of this ability has been decreased by approximately 20% to control burst damage and because it was enabling significantly faster than intended kills in PvP.

Hope you guys didn't send your tokens and commendations on Enforcer Gear like I did, we're official dead in PvP.

Try Dirty Fighting if you like but I'd suggest either shelving your Scoundrel or rolling Sawbones and healing. This effectively made us worthless in PvP.

Oh, and once this goes live don't bother putting two talent points in a knock down that lasts 1.5 seconds and maxes resolve. Stick them some where else, there will be no point. Better yet, just stop playing your class or reroll Sawbones or just play an Inquisitor / Consular or Bounty Hunter / Trooper.

Seriously.

It's that bad.
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Raid Leader. Healing Priest. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.


Adalicia
PoM Nom Nom 'Mon

join:2009-10-13
Columbus, NE
kudos:12

Okay, even though I feel like I'm basically doing this just to hear myself talk at this point I figured I'd update on the Scoundrel / Operative nerf.

It did make it live, starting today and it as bad as we were afraid it would be. So, here are your options:

Respec Sawbones and heal.
Respec Dirty Fighting and be slightly more useful but still pretty lackluster.
Keep playing Scrapper.

I will be doing the latter because I have too much invested in my gear to do otherwise and as long as we keep playing hopefully Bioware will look and go "Yikes, maybe we did kind of fuck up there" and give us something back, I'm not saying K.O. needs to go back to 3 seconds, or the 20% nerf to Shoot First should be reverted, but they need to do something to address just how fucked they made us.

Anyway, so this post isn't just me raving here is going to be your current optimal opener. I say optimal because anyone will a brain will not let you do this entire opener and you should be prepared to be instantly knocked back, CC'd, and kited to death.

Optimal Opener:

Stealth > Flechette Rounds > Shoot First > Dirty Kick > Back Blast > Blast Whip > Sucker Punch (Hope for Flying Fists) > Flash Grenade > Free Action

Free Action means whatever you want. Drop to open cover and hit them with an Explosive Charge and Wounding Shot if you have the Energy, load a Flechette and wait for Back Blast to come of CD and follow up with a Tendon Shot and another Blaster Whip / Sucker Punch combo, whatever.

The problem with all the above is that in order for it to work you're looking at 1 GCD where they have the ability to knock you back, CC you, or pop a defensive CD and completely destroy your opener.

If they don't and you get through the Shoot First to Dirty Kick you have 4 seconds to do what you need to do, which will be two free actions and a third that will overlap with .5 seconds of them being able to do whatever before you can get off Flash Grenade.

The final problem is that you're burning a 60 second CD in the attempt to successfully 1v1 someone. Factor in a flat nerf to Shoot First and the amount of Armor Pen Flechette Rounds grants and you're dealing less sustain, less burst, you're not going to talent into K.O. because a 1.5 second stun isn't worth it.

If they change it so K.O. does not max resolve then it'll still be viable as you'll Shoot First > K.O. > Dirty Kick and have 5.5 seconds of stun versus the original 3 but there is no way they'd be so stupid to do that.

So anyway, unless you're like me and heavily invested in your Scrapper / Concealment gear set, I'd suggest a respec to healing or Dirty Fighting.
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Raid Leader. Healing Priest. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.


Slydermv

join:2010-03-11
Thunder Bay, ON
reply to Adalicia

We are still reading.. thanks!



artsyL

join:2011-02-18
London, ON
reply to Adalicia

No Ada lol, maybe you were doing it for yourself before, but I just started a scoundrel last week, and they implement this nerf...

So I will be reading this in the coming days now that I am level 10+.

Thanks for taking the time.



Adalicia
PoM Nom Nom 'Mon

join:2009-10-13
Columbus, NE
kudos:12
reply to Adalicia

I should add that I can't get an exact answer on if K.O. still maxes the resolve bar at 1.5 seconds of knock down.

If it does not...

...if it does not you still still spec into K.O. and opener will be:

Stealth > Flechette Rounds > Shoot First + K.O. > Dirty Kick > Back Blast > Blaster Whip > Sucker Punch

I'm going to laugh my ass off if it doesn't max resolve anymore...
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Raid Leader. Healing Priest. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.



Adalicia
PoM Nom Nom 'Mon

join:2009-10-13
Columbus, NE
kudos:12

2 edits

Otherwise, you're other option if it does is:

Stealth > Flechette Rounds > Back Blast > Dirty Kick > Blaster Whip > Sucker Punch > Disappearing Act > Shoot First

Edit:

K.O. still maxes resolve. Ignore anything about K.O. not maxing resolve I have said.

Edit #2:

Or it doesn't. I'm getting conflicting information regarding this and have yet to test it myself. Interesting post:

Reosir and I tested Resolve stuff and thought I’d let you know what we found out (I can elaborate more in vent).

Resolve provides CC immunity when it reaches 1000. The Resolve bar under the nameplates is a bar that is actually out of 800, so you’ll notice it fills but doesn’t go white right away sometimes.

Stuns give 200 Resolve per second of the stun.
Mez (breaks on damage) gives 100 Resolve per second.
Knockbacks and pulls generate 400 Resolve.

When you reach or exceed the Resolve threshold of 1000, 50% additional Resolve is generated for the CC ability. So a 4-second stun generates 800 Resolve and if it goes over 1000 you get an extra 400. So two 4-second stuns used back to back will generate 2000 Resolve (800 + 1200).

Therefore:

1200 - 3s KB
+50% = 2000
18s Stun Immunity

600 = 1.5s KB
800 = 4s Stun (Applied Dirty kick)
+50% =1800
18s Stun Immunity

So, it looks that K.O. to Dirty Kick is viable.
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Raid Leader. Healing Priest. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.


Adalicia
PoM Nom Nom 'Mon

join:2009-10-13
Columbus, NE
kudos:12
reply to Adalicia

Okay. Tested it on live. Did 5 Warzones total, small amount in the grand scheme of things but I got Alderaan, Void Star twice, and Huttball twice.

Now then, first the good news:

K.O. no longer maxes resolve. This means you can follow up with Dirty Kick and stun someone for 5.5 seconds with 18 seconds of Stun Immunity following. A 2.5 second net gain assuming they don't Escape Dirty Kick.

And that is about it for good news.

So, bad news:

Shoot First has been nerfed. It is pretty massive. Armor Pen was nerfed. It is VERY fucking massive.

The final result? You're now worthless. In all five Warzones my K:D was mediocre, my overall damage was mediocre, and since we have zero utility as it is we have no officially lost the one thing that made us useful, the ability to sneak around back and kill that Sorcerer / Mercenary that is just spamming Force Lightening / Tracer Missile.

So, what have I decided to do? I've canceled my account. Rash move? Maybe. But I'm not going to play a game where their idea of balance is completely destroying a already niche spec without buffing alternatives. There is a really interesting post over on the forums, which I'm not going to find, that discusses how they could have gone about nerfing us without destroying us and basically it came down to changing a talent that gives us a base line bonus 30% critical strike damage, AKA a free 30% Surge Rating on two abilities.

People were dying because everything would be a critical and the critical versus non critical difference was insane. Fixing that one issue would have basically made it so that they could have left K.O. alone (because I mean, now we can stun you for 5.5 seconds versus 3, that was really smart), leave Armor Pen alone (because Troopers totally can't get up to 85% armor pen, sure one ability but they have a fucking passive that gives the 35% all the time and isn't dependent on another ability, oh and they wear Heavy Armor to our Medium), and thus wouldn't have impacted our sustainable damage as much either.

If they expect Dirty Fighting be viable for Scoundrels they need to give us another method of getting Upper Hand that doesn't require wasting points in the Sawbones tree so we can cast Underworld Medicine for an obscene amount of energy on someone just to get it at range.

They have no idea what the fuck they're doing with balance, they're just listening to the tears. So I salute you that decide to stick with it. I'll come back some where down the line to see if they figured out how to actually balance the game the right way but I have a feeling when I get there it'll be the same shit.

Also, I'd watch out Mercenaries / Commandos, you're probably next for the nerf bat. Sorcerers and Sages are fine though, when 50% of your player base is playing one class they won't dare think about nerfing them.
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Raid Leader. Healing Priest. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.



Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12

Like I said in another thread, I am beginning to think the game is more for SW fanbois than for MMOG fans--the mechanics are so fucking vanilla MMO it's insane. The story is good, but everything else screams a gimped version of WoW.
--
If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.


Slydermv

join:2010-03-11
Thunder Bay, ON
reply to Adalicia

I was still getting stun locked to death or down to 20% by the empire equivalent last night. Is it really that bad?



Adalicia
PoM Nom Nom 'Mon

join:2009-10-13
Columbus, NE
kudos:12

Equal gear to equal gear? Yes.

Battlemaster to partial Champion? Nah. With an actual stun lock now and a total time of 5.5 seconds, which will inevitably be followed up by a Tendon Rip for a 2 second root and slow after, they can keep someone where they want then for at the very least 7.5 seconds, assuming the person isn't going to knock them back or whatever.

Essentially you'll now have the opener:

Stealth > Flechette > Shoot First + K.O. > Back Blast > Dirty Kick > Blaster Whip > Sucker Punch > Sucker Punch > Tendon Shot > Whatever

I have a feeling if anything this change has made Scoundrels / Operatives more powerful in the 10-49 bracket, more specifically post 41 and the closer they are to having the two points in Improved Dirty Kick the better off they are.

When you go from a stun that maxed resolve and lasted 3 seconds and provided 18 seconds of stun immunity to a stun combo that will last 5.5 seconds and still only provides 18 seconds of stun immunity you have to wonder what the fuck the point of nerfing K.O. was in the first place. If people were upset they were dying without being able to do anything, I'm sure they'll just love being stunned for an additional 2.5 seconds.

Therefore, against lower levels, especially ones that don't have their entire tool kit, that above combination will be very strong.

In a 50's only bracket against equally geared players however Shoot First can't even break a Sorcerer's Bubble, let alone "three shot" people like it supposedly used to (it didn't).
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Raid Leader. Healing Priest. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.



Uncle Paul

join:2003-02-04
USA
kudos:1
reply to Adalicia

As a budding Sawbones having jumped ship from the Sith Sorc Healer I appreciate the write up Ada. Props mate.

Leveling spec guidance? IE where would you suggest at level 20, 30, 40 etc.



Adalicia
PoM Nom Nom 'Mon

join:2009-10-13
Columbus, NE
kudos:12

If you want to level quickly don't spec Sawbones. Corso will be your general go to companion until you get Guss, then it is a toss up depending on how you play. Personally I still continue to use Corso though depending on gear any companion is viable. I just like having a ranged tank.

This is your base build, good up until level 37. Just work your way up the Sawbones tree in a logical fashion.

After this point you're going to need to dump two points into SOMETHING in the Sawbones tree you feel will be beneficial. I personally would opt for 2/2 in Med Screen but that is just me. There really isn't a wrong answer.

This is your level 40 spot, this is a full Sawbones build. From here you swap to other trees for viable talents.

This is your level 48 build. At this point you have two floating talents you can place where ever you feel like sticking them. This covers your bases.

This is the final build I opted for at 50.
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Raid Leader. Healing Priest. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.



Uncle Paul

join:2003-02-04
USA
kudos:1

Mucho gracias Ada.

Ehh I'll stick Sawbones. I level at a snail's pace anyway so it really isn't going to make that much of a difference. FWIW, I enjoyed your write up. Was a good primer in shifting play styles.