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Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere to jfmezei

Premium Member

to jfmezei

Re: CNOC's Part 1 Filing on the 703/704 tariffs

 
So does this mean that we FINALLY get to see what's behind some of B#ELL's ###'s ?
resa1983
Premium Member
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON

resa1983

Premium Member

said by Davesnothere:

 
So does this mean that we FINALLY get to see what's behind some of B#ELL's ###'s ?

Looks it.. Seems TPIA/GAS will be able to review costs for Incumbents, and see just how inefficient they really are.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere

Premium Member

said by resa1983:

said by Davesnothere:

 
So does this mean that we FINALLY get to see what's behind some of B#ELL's ###'s ?

Looks it.. Seems TPIA/GAS will be able to review costs for Incumbents, and see just how inefficient crooked they really are.

 
Sorry, but I just HAD to fix that.
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

jfmezei to Davesnothere

Premium Member

to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

 
So does this mean that we FINALLY get to see what's behind some of B#ELL's ###'s ?

Yes. You will see that tere are more ### hiding behind the ###

But the CRTC will be seeing some of the costing for the various fees charged (some of which Bell should deposit next week).

Ott_Cable
@teksavvy.com

Ott_Cable to Davesnothere

Anon

to Davesnothere
All I know there are lots of !@#$%^&* in this and not just #### ####. I don't expect to see any real numbers from Bell to the public at all.

For all we know those #### might just be their golf scores. At least CNOC is chasing after the penalties.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere to jfmezei

Premium Member

to jfmezei
said by jfmezei:

said by Davesnothere:

 
So does this mean that we FINALLY get to see what's behind some of B#ELL's ###'s ?

Yes. You will see that there are more ### hiding behind the ###

But the CRTC will be seeing some of the costing for the various fees charged (some of which Bell should deposit next week).

 
They could at least use another character, such as a '$' or a '&'.

So will the other incumbents have to do this too ?

I would very much like to know their reaction to Cogeco'$ $ubmi$$ion.
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

jfmezei

Premium Member

said by Davesnothere:

I would very much like to know their reaction to Cogeco'$ $ubmi$$ion.

Then get a job at the CRTC, sign the non disclosure agreement or whetever CRTC staffers have to sign and then you are allowed to see the real numbers from incumbents.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

said by jfmezei:

said by Davesnothere:

I would very much like to know their reaction to Cogeco'$ $ubmi$$ion.

Then get a job at the CRTC, sign the non disclosure agreement or whetever CRTC staffers have to sign and then you are allowed to see the real numbers they pull out of their asses from incumbents.

Fixed.
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

jfmezei

Premium Member

During the hearings on Quebecor's many requests for ATI from the CBC, they invited Konrad v Finckenstein. This was televised.

Mr KvF explained very eloquently and clearly how the costing process works and how the requirement for confidentiality is upheld during ATI requests and why it is so.

While I think that there is definitely room for improvement to allow parties to provide coherent responses to an incumbent's costs, I respect that there is a need for confidentiality, otherwise incumbents would refuse to open their kimono in front of the CRTC.

So while we can poke fun at the "#" sign, we should still remain professional about it.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere

Premium Member

said by jfmezei:

....While I think that there is definitely room for improvement to allow parties to provide coherent responses to an incumbent's costs, I respect that there is a need for confidentiality, otherwise incumbents would refuse to open their kimono in front of the CRTC.

So while we can poke fun at the "#" sign, we should still remain professional about it.

 
Yeah, I suppose so.... [Dave grudgingly agrees with JF's suggestion to take the 'High Road'.]

OK, then can we choose another character at which to poke fun ? - Possibly the '&' sign then ? - IT looks kinda lonely.
grunze510
join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC

grunze510

Member

How about the ` (backquote) character? Most people probably don't even realize that it exists. Or maybe the | (pipe).

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere

Premium Member

 
Then I guess that I am one of 'most peeps'.

How about the invisible character with which I now try to remember to begin all of my posts here ?

[Dave feels the need to brag about a New Years resolution.]

Plus, there is symbolism in making fun of an invisible character, as B$ELL's data is ALSO invisible (at least to US), and thus could be considered exchangable/equivalent.
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

jfmezei

Premium Member

I've reread the CNOC Part 1 document.

They do state that they will challenge (separately) the actual fees in the tariff.

They request expedited proceedings (refused by CRTC) even though they should know very well that Bell Canada cannot implement in 2 weeks a major change such as aggregating all capacity at one point and then load balancing across a number of AHSSPIs.

They should also know that it will take Bell more than 2 weeks to develop a radius interface to allow a BAS to know if a port number (information that is tagged to the PPPoE packets) corresponds to a WTN that is classified as business or residential.
Such information is apparently not available in real time to Bell which has to run complex batch job to do correlation of port number with WTN.

Bell's response to this will be interesting. Remember that not all ISPs terminate at the Adelaide CO (nearest to 151). And there may be some ISPs with multiple locations for AHSSPIs. (consider iStop which had some terminate at 151 and some terminate at Ottawa).

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere to MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

said by jfmezei:

said by Davesnothere:

I would very much like to know their reaction to Cogeco'$ $ubmi$$ion.

Then get a job at the CRTC, sign the non disclosure agreement or whetever CRTC staffers have to sign and then you are allowed to see the real numbers they pull out of their asses from incumbents.

Fixed.

 
Thanks, guys, but I only wanted to see their REACTION, and had given up on the data itself.

But now that you mentioned it, ARE they hiring ?
Davesnothere

4 edits

Davesnothere to jfmezei

Premium Member

to jfmezei
said by jfmezei:

I've reread the CNOC Part 1 document.

They do state that they will challenge (separately) the actual fees in the tariff....

....Bell's response to this will be interesting. Remember that not all ISPs terminate at the Adelaide CO (nearest to 151). And there may be some ISPs with multiple locations for AHSSPIs. (consider iStop which had some terminate at 151 and some terminate at Ottawa).

 
At least the CNOC is clearly stating what they plan to do, and looks like it might include 'Hardball' rather than 'Golf'.

Yet each of these tasks ought to be completed in order for Bell to be more fair with thir new price structure, as well as (of course) lowering the capacity prices themselves.

Where does eBox terminate with Bell ? - Montreal ?

I believe that with Videotron, eBox uses Montreal.

BTW, did you post a link to that CNOC 'Part 1' app doc somewhere already ? - I seem to have CRTC's response to that doc but not the doc itself.

EDIT : Never mind - I found it - in the thread on 2011-703 filings, page 11 or 12.
globus999
join:2008-05-15

globus999 to Davesnothere

Member

to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

 
So does this mean that we FINALLY get to see what's behind some of B#ELL's ###'s ?

Not really. We will only get to see the numbers that they concocted. Seriously, is there anybody here that believes that even in the remote case that we get to see some numbers, those numbers would not be cooked? OF COURSE! they will be. It's just like EPS (earnings per share). The old joke goes by saying that the accountant asked the president (in complete secrecy) what the number should be. Same here.

EUS
Kill cancer
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS

Premium Member

Yep, gotta love absorption rates, no one can claim they are untrue.
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

jfmezei

Premium Member

With Bell seemingly ready to negotiate, it is quite possible that it woul give a better DSL deal if the ISP promises to not make a compelling Cable offer to stop the bleeding of customers from DSL to Cable.

Remember that if Bell is to embrace indie ISPs, it is because they will help Bell regain some market share against Cable. An ISP who continues to move customers from DSL to Cable is less likely to get a sweet deal from Bell.

Ott_Cable
@teksavvy.com

Ott_Cable

Anon

It is always the "disloyal" person that gets the better deal.

No one is going to give the same raise to someone contented where he/she is at, but they will give one to the person that is leaving. Same is true for the retention departments giving much better deals to defecting customers.

So I would assume an ISP that is at a position who can move customers to the other guys would have a better bargaining position than one who is DSL only.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

4 edits

Davesnothere to jfmezei

Premium Member

to jfmezei
said by jfmezei:

With Bell seemingly ready to negotiate, it is quite possible that it would give a better DSL deal if the ISP promises to not make a compelling Cable offer to stop the bleeding of customers from DSL to Cable.

Remember that if Bell is to embrace indie ISPs, it is because they will help Bell regain some market share against Cable.

An ISP who continues to move customers from DSL to Cable is less likely to get a sweet deal from Bell.

 
So it seems only a question of who will blink first at the table, Mirko - or folks such as Rocky/Marc.

However, if Bell does not become more competitive in their rates to the Indies (such as by stopping or reducing substantially their $99 FIB hookup extortion, their Dry Loop 'monthly rental', and their BullShit Demarcation repair politics fee - and JUST FIX THINGS for us - like Cablecos ALL do - as well as) by reducing the new CBB rate to something reasonable and not playing business account logins against residential ones with the Indies, then the bleed will continue, AND occur from MORE openings.

It could be death by a million paper cuts for Bell, if they do not smarten up about the big picture, instead of continuing to be so shortsighted for the numbers for every next shareholders' meeting.

But so much for my/our rhetoric....

Has Bell or any other incumbent published 2011 year-end financials yet, including customer count/churn figures ?

Might shed some light on where things really are going, and at what velocity.

Ott_Cable
@teksavvy.com

Ott_Cable

Anon

Bell seems to be the company that hates its own worker bees and customers. To them, both of them are nothing but a drain on the earning results and nothing else. I think the only reason why they are turning around is that they hate the Cableco too.
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

jfmezei

Premium Member

It's begun... filings coming thorugh.
jfmezei

jfmezei

Premium Member

MTS Allstream files some strange document format. Converted to .PDF for you.
jfmezei

jfmezei

Premium Member

Cable Carriers's reply
jfmezei

jfmezei

Premium Member

CAIP's reply
jfmezei

jfmezei

Premium Member

Bell Canada's comments.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere to Ott_Cable

Premium Member

to Ott_Cable
said by Ott_Cable :

....I would assume an I-ISP that is at a position who can move customers to the other guys would have a better bargaining position than one who is DSL only.

 
Definitely

+1

And we know who we mean.
59677028 (banned)
join:2012-01-19
Pontypool, ON

59677028 (banned) to Davesnothere

Member

to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

said by jfmezei:

With Bell seemingly ready to negotiate, it is quite possible that it would give a better DSL deal if the ISP promises to not make a compelling Cable offer to stop the bleeding of customers from DSL to Cable.

Remember that if Bell is to embrace indie ISPs, it is because they will help Bell regain some market share against Cable.

An ISP who continues to move customers from DSL to Cable is less likely to get a sweet deal from Bell.

 
So it seems only a question of who will blink first at the table, Mirko - or folks such as Rocky/Marc.

However, if Bell does not become more competitive in their rates to the Indies (such as by stopping or reducing substantially their $99 FIB hookup extortion, their Dry Loop 'monthly rental', and their BullShit Demarcation repair politics fee - and JUST FIX THINGS for us - like Cablecos ALL do - as well as) by reducing the new CBB rate to something reasonable and not playing business account logins against residential ones with the Indies, then the bleed will continue, AND occur from MORE openings.

It could be death by a million paper cuts for Bell, if they do not smarten up about the big picture, instead of continuing to be so shortsighted for the numbers for every next shareholders' meeting.

But so much for my/our rhetoric....

Has Bell or any other incumbent published 2011 year-end financials yet, including customer count/churn figures ?

Might shed some light on where things really are going, and at what velocity.

ROFL
bell went into its IPTV instead of upgrading capacity for internet users, and they makea ton that way

BACONATOR26
Premium Member
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON

BACONATOR26

Premium Member

When TV subs starts declining even further, Bell's IPTV investment will look foolish.
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

jfmezei

Premium Member

FibTV has nowhere to go but grow in the next few years because they started from scratch. But their expressvue may decline.

Their FTTN investment won't be wasted since it will be used for internet. So that leaves the central microsoft server farms and the software for it.

My guess is that Bell will have managed to pay back the investment before legacy TV distribution is no longer "big".