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Exodus
Your Daddy
Premium Member
join:2001-11-26
Earth

Exodus

Premium Member

Buying a Home. What's your Checklist?

I've been renting for a very long time and a family of five now pushes us out of most renting options and we're looking into a home. We have a realtor and we've looked at two different homes now. I'm looking to learn from the experiences of those who are more experienced with this stuff with I am, so I can get the best home for my family.

I'm going to leave this open ended for anyone to supply whatever info they have.

What kind of questions do you ask? What kind of things do you look for?

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo

Member

Did you meet with a financial adviser to verify the mortgage size for which you'd qualify?

Without that, you don't know what you can buy. Just because the mortgage payments are do-able for YOU doesn't mean you qualify.

After that:

1 - Location
2 - Location
3 - Location
4 - Would you feel proud/happy to see that house front every day when you come home?
5 - Bathrooms/Rooms quantity meet your needs?
6 - Are you willing to spend time and money on renovations right away? if not, better find a house which you wouldn't need to change things right after you move in.
7 - Get a freaking good inspector, he'll show you the hidden problems you'd need to address if you buy that home, those are expenses.

AMDUSER
Premium Member
join:2003-05-28
Earth,
ARRIS CM8200
ARRIS SB6183

1 recommendation

AMDUSER

Premium Member

Forget the inspector,[some of the reports are not worth the paper they are wrote on.] get trades people who actually work on that area everyday.. ie electrician to check electrical, plumber to check the plumbing, general contractor - to check the structure etc..

If there are any probems, you will have leverage to lower the cost of buying the house or have the current owner make repairs.

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine to Exodus

Member

to Exodus
My checklist (which may be different from yours):

If I had to buy a home today:

No HOA, no restrictive CC&Rs. This is controversial. Some people like them, I hate them. It is up to you really but my preference is not to have one.

Location (location, location). Commute wise though I am flexible. As long as I can take mass transit from within a reasonable drive I am OK.
Price
Size and number of bedrooms (3 kids, so I need at least 4 bedrooms)
Distance from neighbors, amount of land. I like a large lot.
Type of heating/cooling and ease of upgrading (would prefer something with ductwork already done).
Must have a basement, but I prefer one that is not wet and doesn't need a sump pump. Unfinished OK.
preferably not in a flood zone (I like houses on hills or close to the top of them)
Not too many restrictive zoning ordinances for my hobbies (ham radio mostly)
Underground utilities preferred
Good quality schools, but not too heavy of a tax bill (the two aren't always mutually exclusive).
Natural gas if possible
No underground oil tank
Decent broadband available. Doesn't have to be fios, fast cable will do.
Must be structurally sound
Not a lot of street traffic and noise
I like high ceilings
Must have at least 200A electric service or should be easily upgradeable to 200A
Decent sized kitchen. Preferably with a center island or room for one.

Nice to haves but not necessary:
Attached or detached garage
Paved driveway (we looked at some homes with dirt or gravel driveways, we could have paved but it would cost)
Space for a double oven in the kitchen
dedicated space I can use for a home office

I have no preference for:
Well water vs city water. I can do either.
Curb appeal. Yeah, I want my house to look nice but it's not a deal breaker if it doesn't look like one of those houses you see on HGTV
Swimming pool. I don't mind it but your property taxes go up. It also needs maintenance and costs electric to run the pump and gas to heat.

A home inspector is an absolute must. Ours saved us from buying a house with a large crack in the septic tank that would have cost $5k to fix and multiple issues including roof leaks and a rat's nest of a sub panel.

Exodus
Your Daddy
Premium Member
join:2001-11-26
Earth

Exodus to alkizmo

Premium Member

to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:

Did you meet with a financial adviser to verify the mortgage size for which you'd qualify?

Without that, you don't know what you can buy. Just because the mortgage payments are do-able for YOU doesn't mean you qualify.

Yes, that is taken care of. Talking about income/house prices, was something I wanted to keep private, but we have that stuff sorted out, to the point where I know what to expect to pay for a mortgage at the highest end of what we could afford, including our down payment, insurance and other fees that get put onto the monthly costs.

After that:

1 - Location
2 - Location
3 - Location

We did do some research into the area we're looking at. The township is rated as one of the lowest taxed areas in state. Our property taxes are based upon home values and the one property we were looking at was just reassessed last year and the value was jacked up $40k. What was the adjusted taxes for the year? $1900. Every other area is $4-6k/year for similar priced homes. The school district is ranked one of the highest within the area (50 mile radius).

Is there anything else you mean by location? The one home was on a hill with a steep driveway. That was our only major qualm with it.

4 - Would you feel proud/happy to see that house front every day when you come home?

Is this important? The only reason why I would be concerned was if the house was in poor physical condition. Obviously, if it had some sort of hot pink paint on the house, I'd want it taken care of, but I don't care too much about the physical appearance of the outside, as long as it wasn't in need of major repairs.

5 - Bathrooms/Rooms quantity meet your needs?

Our realtor sorts out our listings to have a minimum of 4 bedrooms. Houses with that many bedrooms tend to have at least 2 full bathrooms. The one we're possibly interested in has three.

6 - Are you willing to spend time and money on renovations right away? if not, better find a house which you wouldn't need to change things right after you move in.

Depends on the price. I'd rather a home that required minimal changes and be more expensive. It's certainly in the back of our minds in every home we look at.

7 - Get a freaking good inspector, he'll show you the hidden problems you'd need to address if you buy that home, those are expenses.

How do you find a "good" inspector? I don't know any and I can't exactly check their work to make sure they caught everything until it would be too late.
Exodus

Exodus to AMDUSER

Premium Member

to AMDUSER
said by AMDUSER:

Forget the inspector,[some of the reports are not worth the paper they are wrote on.] get trades people who actually work on that area everyday.. ie electrician to check electrical, plumber to check the plumbing, general contractor - to check the structure etc..

If there are any probems, you will have leverage to lower the cost of buying the house or have the current owner make repairs.

What's your list then of people to come in and check?

Plumber
Electrician
????

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine to AMDUSER

Member

to AMDUSER
said by AMDUSER:

Forget the inspector,[some of the reports are not worth the paper they are wrote on.] get trades people who actually work on that area everyday.. ie electrician to check electrical, plumber to check the plumbing, general contractor - to check the structure etc..

If there are any probems, you will have leverage to lower the cost of buying the house or have the current owner make repairs.

You need to shop around for an inspector. Ours has licenses in the various trades including electrical and plumbing. He really knew his stuff and kept up to date on codes. He was very detailed in his inspection.

Also, don't just send the inspector to do a report while you are not there. Walk through with him/her. He/she will point out stuff while you walk through. Not everything will be noted on the report but you get to kick the tires.

If the house you are buying has a septic tank, get a septic inspector to come out too.

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

cowboyro to alkizmo

Premium Member

to alkizmo
First priority:
1. Location
2. House style (wanted a colonial and nothing else).
3. Size of house (wanted 2000-2500sqft)

Second priority:
4. Ease of access to shopping centers and highways (10 minutes was a criteria)
5. Layout (you can change much about a house, layout is the most difficult)
6. Number of bedrooms and bathrooms

Third priority
7. Price
8. Lot size
9. Age of house
10. Pool

The cosmetic shape wasn't on the list for me. I knew that for virtually any house there would be changes to make. I got a pre-foreclosure in a very poor cosmetic shape but with a very solid structure and did virtually everything myself (including a complete tear-down and rebuild of the kitchen). Of course the poor condition of the house led to a much lower price for the neighborhood.

Financial-wise the main calculation was *mine*. Calculated the affordable payment as the amount we could pay if both me and my wife ended up on unemployment at the same time, of course leaving space for the other "required" bills. The current payment is virtually 1 bi-monthly net paycheck (my wife and I earn about the same).

Also one thing many miss - there is no such thing as a starter home. Between closing costs and selling expenses, for a 300k house you're looking at a $25k loss easily while in the first few years of a loan you're paying almost nothing towards the principal.

I_H8_Spam
join:2004-03-10
St Catharines, ON

I_H8_Spam to AMDUSER

Member

to AMDUSER
Make sure to consider the total cost of owning when setting your financials.

I went from renting to owning years back and it's it was an adjustment.

Repairs are your problem not the landlords.
Utilities, Water, Sewer, Lawn/Snow.
Insurance Liability/Property and Possessions
City, State, County, Region ect ect. Taxes

Exodus
Your Daddy
Premium Member
join:2001-11-26
Earth

Exodus to fifty nine

Premium Member

to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

No HOA, no restrictive CC&Rs. This is controversial. Some people like them, I hate them. It is up to you really but my preference is not to have one.

CC&R? I have heard nothing but bad from HoA's and we have similar HoA experiences in renting.

Location (location, location). Commute wise though I am flexible. As long as I can take mass transit from within a reasonable drive I am OK.

We don't need to mass transit, but commute is one of the deal-breakers, so we don't even look for homes that are too far out of the way from where we work.

Type of heating/cooling and ease of upgrading (would prefer something with ductwork already done).

What's good these days and what should we stay away from? I live in Pennsylvania where the winters get cold and the summers *can* get hot.

Must have a basement, but I prefer one that is not wet and doesn't need a sump pump. Unfinished OK.

We want to avoid flood damage. There was a pretty major flood in our area over the summer. If there was damage, it would need to be in the disclosure, or it would come forward in the inspection. I figure, if a home can survive that, it's good enough for my standards.

Must be structurally sound

How do you check for this?

Must have at least 200A electric service or should be easily upgradeable to 200A

What benefit does this serve, how do I check and why?

A home inspector is an absolute must. Ours saved us from buying a house with a large crack in the septic tank that would have cost $5k to fix and multiple issues including roof leaks and a rat's nest of a sub panel.

What kind of maintenance is expected with a septic tank? The one home we were looking at has one. How often does it get pumped and how much does it cost to maintain?

The Pig
I know you want to be me
Premium Member
join:2009-09-11

The Pig to Exodus

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to Exodus
Are you sure you are ready to take on a 30 years payment plan?
Think to keep in mind when looking at what you can afford are the added cost no one tells you about until it's to late like,
Mortage insurance
Homeowners insurance
escrow cost
Property tax
etc!

Water damage is one of the most important things to look for from the roof and pipes!

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo to Exodus

Member

to Exodus
said by Exodus:

Is there anything else you mean by location?

A small change of location can affect the market value by a lot.
So just because a similar house 5 miles away is a lot cheaper doesn't mean you're getting the same market value.

But of course, your needs of location come first, then when your comparing candidates, then the market value of houses in X and Y location will come into play.

It's hard for a normal home buyer to know the market values per location though.
said by Exodus:

Is this important? The only reason why I would be concerned was if the house was in poor physical condition. Obviously, if it had some sort of hot pink paint on the house, I'd want it taken care of, but I don't care too much about the physical appearance of the outside, as long as it wasn't in need of major repairs.

Anything that can be fixed by maintenance isn't the issue.
It's the structure of the house (Which cannot be changed without major costs).
When you shop around for a car you look at performance, reliability, price, but in the end, it has to look nice.

It's all subjective, but is important. It's what made me chose one house over another when we were down to 2 candidates. One had better indoor renovations, but I just didn't like the house front, while the other one (One I bought) I loved its appearance.
said by Exodus:

How do you find a "good" inspector? I don't know any and I can't exactly check their work to make sure they caught everything until it would be too late.

Same way you find a good realtor. References.

And as others have said, BE THERE when the inspection occurs.

Exodus
Your Daddy
Premium Member
join:2001-11-26
Earth

Exodus to The Pig

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to The Pig
said by The Pig:

Are you sure you are ready to take on a 30 years payment plan?

I'm paying rent. The mortgage (insurance/escrow/tax/loan/etc) is slightly higher than we are paying for rent, but our income has doubled since we started renting there. I will probably only get COLA increases at my job from here on, but my wife has room for advancements. We both work for the same agency. I have enough seniority that even with lay-offs, I won't be going anywhere.

Water damage is one of the most important things to look for from the roof and pipes!

After this summer's flood we had in PA, that is one of my requirements. Did it survive that flood without damage? Because, if it does, then I am happy. Since it is recent, it's a good way to check. Of course, I imagine that home owners will try and cover that up, but I am hoping and relying on a good home inspection once I settle.

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

cowboyro to Exodus

Premium Member

to Exodus
said by Exodus:

said by fifty nine
Must have at least 200A electric service or should be easily upgradeable to 200A

What benefit does this serve, how do I check and why?

No advantage if you don't need it.

What kind of maintenance is expected with a septic tank? The one home we were looking at has one. How often does it get pumped and how much does it cost to maintain?

Pump every 2-5 years depending on usage and size (start with 2-3). Costs some 250 in my area. With light usage you can even stretch it to 5 years. Make sure it is in good shape, it can be a huge expense if it fails (looking at 20k).
telco_mtl
join:2012-01-06

telco_mtl to fifty nine

Member

to fifty nine
If you are hiring an inspector make sure he is a member of a recognized order ie: ASHI (american society of home inspectors) as well as having E&O insurance. The ASHI is very stringent with thier membership. The big problem there is no pre-requisites to be a home inspector, but if you have a member of an order with insurance you are covered. From a practical standpoint even a homeowner with a good solid property wont let 20 professionals come through his property for an inspector.

You have to remember with a pre purchase home inspector choose someone with a broad skillset. Some of the best inspectors i have seen are former handymen as they have worked in a lot of the fields.

You also have to remember that this is not a "code inspection" and any inspector that uses the phrase "this isnt to code" should be fired. Things that are not up to modern standards are to be noted though. A house built in 1955 with no grounded wiring was to code at time of construction and nothing says in the laws it has to be brought up to code. If you try to use ungrounded wiring for example as a bargaining chip most realtors will laugh at you.

things to keep in mind:
pre 1960:
ungrounded wiring, galvanized water pipes
pre 1970:
asbestos joint compound (not a huge risk unless you are knocking walls down)
vermiculite insulation
1970-1980:
aluminium wire (this is the one that scares the daylights out of me) when improperly modified (wrong receptacles, improper prep of the wires) IT WILL BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN!

Asterix
Premium Member
join:2002-09-18
Nazareth, PA

Asterix to Exodus

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to Exodus
I just got a house and moved in the Friday before Halloween. My number 1 question was .. "Is my wife happy with the house?" Coz she practically lives there 24x7. My wife was very particular about bathrooms. She didn't like the idea of Jack n Jill bathrooms especially if 2 kids were sharing it. Also the kitchen was not to be shared over looking the family room. She hates it when someone keeps peeking from the family room into the kitchen and checking on what's she doing. It was just her personal preference.. and I agreed too.

It was too much but we saw over 50 houses in a span of 2 years before she liked this one. Do not hurry on buying a house just for the sake of getting one. You will regret the decision made in haste.

Secondly keep a check on the traffic and how close is the house to the daily traffic. If the house is close to a road keep a check on the road noise as you don't wanna hear trucks and cars passing by too frequently if you or someone in your family is looking for peace and less noise. At the same time you do not want to go too far inside and just have other homes to see around and not real life.

brian
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mission Viejo, CA

brian to Exodus

Premium Member

to Exodus
CC&Rs are the governing documents of an HOA.
said by Exodus:

What's your list then of people to come in and check?

Plumber
Electrician
????

I'd add HVAC to that list. The problem with general property inspectors is that they say things like "XYZ may or may not have a problem. You should have an XYZ contractor/inspector evaluate." This absolves them of any responsibility if XYZ has a problem they didn't catch.

Exodus
Your Daddy
Premium Member
join:2001-11-26
Earth

Exodus

Premium Member

»www.realtor.com/realesta ··· 10213374

Here is a home we checked out. The place is large. 2000 sq ft above ground. Basement is the size of the first floor that is either cement, or fully finished. The finished area is 500 sq ft according to the detailed listing my realtor pulled.

Has a built-in chimney grill. The fireplace in the basement is propane and there are two large tanks outside. The place is on a hill, as seen by the back yard. The pictures conceal that a bit, but you can see in the front yard.

There is more to the property than the pictures show. The basement only shows the bar area, which is very large. It doesn't show the cement area that is about twice as large, which takes up about the size of the first floor, so there is plenty of room for storage.

We are looking at other homes as well. This was one of the homes that grabbed our interest.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

1 recommendation

nunya to Exodus

MVM

to Exodus
Remember, it IS a buyers market - Everywhere, USA. Take your time. You can be a little picky. You can negotiate. Since you won't need to sell a house and already know your financials, you are an "ideal" buyer.
You'll find a lot of "short sales" on the market. Avoid these if you need to move in a hurry. Contrary to the name, they take longer to process and often fall though.

Get an independent licensed home inspector. A decent home inspector will be your "first line of defense". Not some guy recommended by a real estate agent. Real estate agents are salesmen. They get paid on commission. If the sale doesn't go through, they don't get that commission. They are most likely to recommend people to move the sale along as quickly as possible.

Your home inspector may find things that require an expert eye. Electrical, mechanical, plumbing (septic), structural, etc... Don't be bashful about paying someone to keep you from buying a lemon. You might loose $500 now, but it could easily have been $10-20K down the road somewhere.

Don't get emotional. I see this 95% of the time. People find a house, and think it has to be "the one". They overlook major issues because of "Charm", location, or "aesthetics". Think of the property as an investment (it happened to me on my first house).

On the other hand ~ If you are buying a used house, don't expect it to be a new house. Older homes are not perfect. Things the sellers have lived with for years often don't even cross their minds, but may bother you. I can't tell you how many younger people I see that nitpick every little thing about an older home. They try to fashion into their idea of a home, often at the sellers expense. Some sellers will be turned off by a plethora of demands and contingencies. They may not even respond to an offer. It is a buyers market, but there's no reason to be "unreasonable" either. You can make it into "your home" after you buy it. Keep an open mind. Walls can be painted, the ugly furniture and curtains will be gone. The shag carpet can be replaced.

BTW "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." - Gerald R. Ford
I've seen that quote mis-attributed to Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Abe Lincoln, Ben Franklin, but never MLK. If it's a joke, I don't get it.

Exodus
Your Daddy
Premium Member
join:2001-11-26
Earth

Exodus

Premium Member

Thanks for the info on home inspector. I will definitely keep that in mind when the time comes.

Also, yes, the quote is a joke. People mis-attributed that quote to many people, which is why I chose MLK. I've had it for quite a while and you're the only person who ever noticed.

Enjoy the subtle joke.

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

Msradell to cowboyro

Premium Member

to cowboyro
said by cowboyro:

said by Exodus:

What kind of maintenance is expected with a septic tank? The one home we were looking at has one. How often does it get pumped and how much does it cost to maintain?

Pump every 2-5 years depending on usage and size (start with 2-3). Costs some 250 in my area. With light usage you can even stretch it to 5 years. Make sure it is in good shape, it can be a huge expense if it fails (looking at 20k).

A good septic system that is functioning properly and has good biological action (ie don't kill the bacteria) to go much much longer! I've seen systems go 15-20 years between pump outs.

Exodus
Your Daddy
Premium Member
join:2001-11-26
Earth

Exodus

Premium Member

How does someone check a septic system thoroughly if it is underground?

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

Msradell

Premium Member

said by Exodus:

How does someone check a septic system thoroughly if it is underground?

Have a septic systems specialist look at the system they can give you a pretty quick analysis if it's in good shape. The life expectancy between clean outs partially depends on how you treat it. Don't put all of the chemicals down it and feed it good bugs on a regular basis.

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo to Exodus

Member

to Exodus
said by Exodus:

How does someone check a septic system thoroughly if it is underground?

thoroughly = As much as can be done.

Obviously they can't check the actual thing for FUTURE problems (like if there's a weak point where a hole my occur).

Then again I'm guessing.

I'd think cameras for checking the walls and soil test for if there's a leak.

Though, before researching on that, just check if there is even a tank.

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

cowboyro to Exodus

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to Exodus
said by Exodus:

How does someone check a septic system thoroughly if it is underground?

They open the inspection/cleanout cover and they examine it... insert cameras and inspect the holding tank and leeching fields. Costs about $250.

justlooking9 to alkizmo

Anon

to alkizmo
Option to put in a natural gas powered whole house generator.
No HOA
Great school district
Check lot for wet/marshy areas. I have been trying to deal with a neighbor who has a sump pump that runs constantly and it empties into my back yard. 10 to 15 feet, front to back of my back yard, is unusable for the entire year.
Roof in good condition

The Pig
I know you want to be me
Premium Member
join:2009-09-11

The Pig to Exodus

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to Exodus
Check to see if it is a safe neighborhood!
Enter address in this website!
»spotcrime.com/

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine to cowboyro

Member

to cowboyro
said by cowboyro:

said by Exodus:

How does someone check a septic system thoroughly if it is underground?

They open the inspection/cleanout cover and they examine it... insert cameras and inspect the holding tank and leeching fields. Costs about $250.

Much simpler than that.

First is the load test. They run all the faucets and showers for a period of time to load up the tank. If the water goes down too fast there is a leak and it will warrant further investigation.

Flush the toilets and check for flow in the tank.

Do a visual inspection with a flashlight. No fancy cameras needed and no need to drain the tank.

Check the condition of the drain field. There are inspection caps for that purpose.

Check that the septic pump and alarm (if applicable) is working.

That's it.

A trained septic inspector can tell you exactly what's wrong with your tank without even having to look at the walls.
fifty nine

fifty nine to Msradell

Member

to Msradell
said by Msradell:

said by cowboyro:

said by Exodus:

What kind of maintenance is expected with a septic tank? The one home we were looking at has one. How often does it get pumped and how much does it cost to maintain?

Pump every 2-5 years depending on usage and size (start with 2-3). Costs some 250 in my area. With light usage you can even stretch it to 5 years. Make sure it is in good shape, it can be a huge expense if it fails (looking at 20k).

A good septic system that is functioning properly and has good biological action (ie don't kill the bacteria) to go much much longer! I've seen systems go 15-20 years between pump outs.

While that may be true, the health dept here recommends it be pumped every 3 years. Unfortunately too much other stuff like laundry water and chlorine goes into the septic tank, killing your valuable bacteria.

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

cowboyro to fifty nine

Premium Member

to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

A trained septic inspector can tell you exactly what's wrong with your tank without even having to look at the walls.

Can't really inspect the leeching fields without a camera. The flashlight is a "seems OK" kind of thing. Inserting a camera can provide a clear picture of how well it drains and how much the level has raised in the galleries in the past. That is impossible to tell with a flashlight.