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 rtcyFACTS only pleasePremium
join:1999-10-16
Norwalk, CA
1 edit | reply to Mystiky4
Re: Actiontec MI424WR Router Revision I - bug/problem ?! said by Mystiky4:My connection from the ONT is both Ethernet and Coax.
The Ethernet one goes from the ONT to the WAN port of the Actiontec. The Ethernet from the WNDR4500 (from it's LAN port)is going into the LAN port of the Actiontec.
The Coax from the ONT goes into a 4-splitter, of which one part goes into the Coax of the Actiontec. The other 2 ends go into my two STB boxes, and the 4th end is capped.
Now, as far as the 24-hour reboot, I am not sure it's a good idea as some of us keep connections which should not go down (like applets for stock traders, mIRC, etc.). If there is a reboot, you would then need to restart all those applications and that would create a hassle.
you still did not say what router are the wired computers hooked up to?
are the ethernet WIRES from wired computers being hooked up to the 4500 or the Actiontec?
the reason I ask is IF the wired computers are hooked directly to the Actiontec then they are bypassing the 4500.
and as long as the Actiontec is the ONLY one dishing out internal addresses then this would tell you for sure if the problem is the Actiontec or not.
just to be fair I hardwire IP addresses on all my machines, this tends to remove "issues" from poor working routers
hope all the rambling makes sense
well not all I will tell you that I have 2 5 port gigabit switches (could not afford/see to pay 3 times more for a 16 port gig switch ) and once in a while they LOCK UP and act as if the router is locked up. I found this out the hard way after rebooting my router one day when the wife and sons called me at work. so now in my routine of things to do I also pull the wire on the GIG switches too. | |
2 edits | ONT > Actiontec (via Enternet / WAN port) > WNDR4500 (via Ethernet / LAN port) > PC (via Ethernet / LAN port).
That's it. There are no more hardwired connections to any other PC's. All other connections are WiFi, and when my issue starts, the PC and any other wifi devices have the same problem.
Just to cover all the other basis:
At no time do I have any problems with either of the two STB boxes connected via Coax.
Nothing else is connected into the Actiontec and the only other physical connections into the WNDR4500 are:
1) LAN Printer
2) Ethernet cable that goes from the WNDR4500 into the PC.
What has me going crazy is that this works for at least 48 hours guranteed, and then afterwards, that's where the problems starts maybe 50 or 55 hours into it.
I think hat we can rule out a "bad cable", as I cannot imagine it working for 2 days and then getting tired. Also, the same ONT worked perfectly, without any issues for 18 months while I had a Inetrnet/phone only service. Albeit, I I had a direct connection from the ONT to the WNDR3700. I gave up on it as it was giving me issues in AP only mode.
Someone also said something about "maybe NAT" ports get overloaded? But then I read elsewhere that the Rev. I doesm't have that problem...
gulp... | |
| So, to summarize what I understand at this point:
Every 48-55 hours, internet access for all devices stops, whether hardwired to the Rev I, or wireless via the 4500 in AP mode. Correct?
The last time it happened, did you try to run nslookup from one of the PC's, as I suggested previously? If so, did it work?
When you say the STB's work, are you watching "normal" TV? If so, that's what you'd expect, because it wouldn't be affected by internet problems. The next time it happens, try to bring up VOD, which does connect to VZ via the internet. If there's a problem with the router, or with something else in the internet path like the ONT, VOD won't work, either.
You could also try making the 4500 the primary router for a while. I guess it's possible that something you're running on one of the devices (even in the background) is filling up the NAT table on the Rev I; if this is the case you should see the problem much sooner because the 4500 NAT table is far smaller than the Actiontec. I'd run in this mode for a while, anyway, just to see what happens.
Also, someone else suggested that you run without the 4500 and use the Rev I wireless. It would be slower wireless, of course; but when trying to troubleshoot issues like this, you have to test and confirm or eliminate every potential cause of the problem. Get the 4500 completely out of the scenario and see if anything changes.
I would also re-open the ticket with Verizon and tell them what's going on. It may take a couple interactions and more troubleshooting steps you've already performed yourself, but they'll be able to look at things from the ONT and upstream that we mere mortals don't have access to.  | |
| **Every 48-55 hours, internet access for all devices stops, whether hardwired to the Rev I, or wireless via the 4500 in AP mode. Correct?**
Correct. And the symptoms are exactly the same. When I try to open any webpage, it sometimes loads, and sometimes doesn't. Then, if it does, some of the graphics don't get displayed or text location/fonts get messed-up. And what is crazy is that I am able to open ntyimes.com, and then when I decide to visit cnn.com, at the top (my adress bar) it shows that I am on cnn.com, but then I get "error, page not found" error (like when you enter an invalid web address). Then I hit refresh and it probably keeps doing that. Then if I enter netgear.com it may load for real or it will not. Opening new browser windows creates the same exact situation. By the way, my DNS is now set to 4.2.2.2 and 4.2.2.3 in the Actiontec.
So the internet doesn't completely stops working, but like 95% of it. I did have mIRC running in the background when the issue started to happen, mIRC it continued to work without any disconnects or problems while all this was going on. It ling/pongs every minute or so, and records any disconnects. There were NONE. Also, Outlook stops receiving mail, online games don't work, etc...
**The last time it happened, did you try to run nslookup from one of the PC's, as I suggested previously? If so, did it work?**
I forgot and promise to do that. In actuality, I probably would not be able to go online to re-read your instruction, so I captured them as a text file to have offline.
**When you say the STB's work, are you watching "normal" TV? If so, that's what you'd expect, because it wouldn't be affected by internet problems. The next time it happens, try to bring up VOD, which does connect to VZ via the internet. If there's a problem with the router, or with something else in the internet path like the ONT, VOD won't work, either.**
What a great idea. I will make sure to do that. In addition, I can also try to "stream" a movie or something from my PC to the WD TV Live HD, which is connected to the WNDR4500 via wireless. Let's see if it is able to get it's signal okay or not.
**You could also try making the 4500 the primary router for a while. I guess it's possible that something you're running on one of the devices (even in the background) is filling up the NAT table on the Rev I; if this is the case you should see the problem much sooner because the 4500 NAT table is far smaller than the Actiontec. I'd run in this mode for a while, anyway, just to see what happens.
Also, someone else suggested that you run without the 4500 and use the Rev I wireless. It would be slower wireless, of course; but when trying to troubleshoot issues like this, you have to test and confirm or eliminate every potential cause of the problem. Get the 4500 completely out of the scenario and see if anything changes.**
I promise to try that if this second WNDR4500 gives me the same results. Again, the reason I am hesitant to take the WNDR4500 offline is that some of my wireless hardware (like WD TV Live) is pre-set to run on the 5Ghz bandwidth, and Actiontec is not a dual-band one. Just did not want to reprogram all of the WPA2 codes... but I will if I have to!
**I would also re-open the ticket with Verizon and tell them what's going on. It may take a couple interactions and more troubleshooting steps you've already performed yourself, but they'll be able to look at things from the ONT and upstream that we mere mortals don't have access to.**
That of course will be the last step. I just want to cross-off all possible scenarious before calling them. As of right now, until I have the Actiontec ALONE, they can always blame it on anything else.
Will keep you posted as I am now 6 hours into my new WNDR4500 being online. | |
rtcyFACTS only pleasePremium
join:1999-10-16
Norwalk, CA
2 edits | reply to Mystiky4
said by Mystiky4:ONT > Actiontec (via Enternet / WAN port) > WNDR4500 (via Ethernet / LAN port) > PC (via Ethernet / LAN port).
That's it. There are no more hardwired connections to any other PC's. All other connections are WiFi, and when my issue starts, the PC and any other wifi devices have the same problem.
Just to cover all the other basis:
At no time do I have any problems with either of the two STB boxes connected via Coax.
Nothing else is connected into the Actiontec and the only other physical connections into the WNDR4500 are:
1) LAN Printer
2) Ethernet cable that goes from the WNDR4500 into the PC.
What has me going crazy is that this works for at least 48 hours guranteed, and then afterwards, that's where the problems starts maybe 50 or 55 hours into it.
I think hat we can rule out a "bad cable", as I cannot imagine it working for 2 days and then getting tired. Also, the same ONT worked perfectly, without any issues for 18 months while I had a Inetrnet/phone only service. Albeit, I I had a direct connection from the ONT to the WNDR3700. I gave up on it as it was giving me issues in AP only mode.
Someone also said something about "maybe NAT" ports get overloaded? But then I read elsewhere that the Rev. I doesm't have that problem...
gulp...
ok MAYBE after all these years helping other people I have got a case of "misunderstanding" going on
ONT > Actiontec (via Enternet / WAN port) > WNDR4500 (via Ethernet / LAN port) > PC (via Ethernet / LAN port).
this paragraph above suggest to me that the last item > PC via ethernet is getting a WIRE from the 4500. if this is true PLEASE hook up that wire to the Actiontec NOT the 4500 use the 4500 ONLY for wireless. then come back and tell us after a week if the computer that is on a wire to the Actiontec is still having problems.
then we can figure out if the problem is with the EDGE router a.k.a the Actiontec OR with the internal router that is ONLY feeding wireless clients
sorry if I sound condescending. NOT MEANT TO BE.
beside doing the above, you could set up a different SSID(act) on the Actiontec on say channel 1,
and a second SSID on the 4500 say (4500) on channel 6
and then put one client wireless machine to ONLY log automatically to one router
and a second wireless machine to log into the second router ONLY and see which one dies
this way you could tell if wired machines on the ACTIONTEC dies as well as wireless machines on same Actiontec VERSUS wireless machines on the 4500
as far as the STB"S working , well I hate to say something nice about Verizon , well maybe it's more the MOCA people and the router people, but the STB's are getting their tv content on another whole network that has nothing to do with what you are seeing. the ONLY thing the STB use the "normal ethernet" network that you use your computer on is to do channel guide updates and to get VOD movies
and when the main Actiontec is broken this is a EASY way to see if it's the Actiontec or the 4500 just push that VOD button , if the screen responds right up, the Actiontec is just fine and dandy and your 4500 is the culprit.
and since I have a broken down DIR-655 that I gave to my youngest son I can tell you my money is on DLINK being broken.
and yet every 3 months I get the urge to buy a DIR-825 because of that working IPV 6 wich they quickly have broken several times now with updates. BTW they had a huge problem with the internal DNS and DHCP servers acting up and people were pissed! you may want to go to their forums
»forums.dlink.com/index.php?PHPSE···rd=144.0
and take a read about, you may find answers with a new firmware but BEWARE as they can't be downgraded , well the fir-655 can now that it has been hacked so it can be brought down to the frist 2 firmwares that actually worked ok. not sure about your though | |
| He's got the PC hardwired to the Actiontec. It's a little unclear from that post, but I'm pretty sure he mentioned that earlier.
Michael, correct me if I'm wrong on that. | |
| said by claibourne:He's got the PC hardwired to the Actiontec. It's a little unclear from that post, but I'm pretty sure he mentioned that earlier.
Michael, correct me if I'm wrong on that.
Yes, my PC is indeed hardwired to the the Actiontec, with WNDR4500 being the "middle man".
Hope this answers the question once and for all. | |
2 edits | reply to More Fiber
said by More Fiber:This is a semantics issue. What you (and the Actiontec) are referring to as static is not really static. A true static IP address is set at the device and the router is not involved.
What you've done is create a "DHCP Reservation". Actiontec incorrectly refers to this as a static assignment.
With a DHCP reservation, the device (the WNDR4500) sends a DHCP request just as it normally would. The Actiontec responds with a DHCP response containing a preassigned IP address for that MAC address.
Thanks for explaining this. The reason I noticed this was because when I initally setup the original WNDR4500, it did show as "Static" in all 3 places in the Actiontec screens that I posteed here (where only 1 of the 3 shows it).
But why isn't Windows 7 displaying the WNDR4500 under the "Network Infrastructure" section?
By the way, if my "real" problem is somehow solved, I don't care for anything that is displayed --- just as long as everything works without the need to physically turn off and back on the Actiontec every 2-3 days or so.
| |
| reply to Mystiky4
said by Mystiky4:Will keep you posted as I am now 6 hours into my new WNDR4500 being online.
Good luck! If it happens again, perhaps someone else can suggest some other approaches. I've probably reached the limit of my usefulness. | |
rtcyFACTS only pleasePremium
join:1999-10-16
Norwalk, CA | reply to Mystiky4
said by Mystiky4:said by claibourne:He's got the PC hardwired to the Actiontec. It's a little unclear from that post, but I'm pretty sure he mentioned that earlier.
Michael, correct me if I'm wrong on that.
Yes, my PC is indeed hardwired to the the Actiontec, with WNDR4500 being the "middle man". Hope this answers the question once and for all. ok thank you. I missed it. | |
3 edits | reply to Mystiky4
UPDATE
--------
Seems like my replacing the WNDR4500 with another one started to fail (again, after about 50 hours of no problems). So I bit the bullet and called Verizon FIOS tech support and asked for Tier 2 help and got connected and told my whole story in great detail..
To make the long story short, the lady who answered was very kind and said "don't worry, I have the solution to your problem.", as I deal with this all the time.
She then basically told me that my "mistake" was that I did not DMZ the IP address of the WNDR4500 router inside the Actiontec and told me to do so (see screenshot).
So, I went in and DMZ'ed 192.168.1.24 (the Static address of the WNDR4500). She told me to reboot everything and she thinks that all my troubles will be solved.
My questions:
1) Since I am connected Actiontec (LAN) to WNDR4500 (LAN), won't this create an issue of security, as the firewall of the WNDR4500 will only work when the hardwired connection is plugged into the WAN port (not LAN, as in my case)? How will then the WNDR4500 protect my PC if it gets attacked, as it is simply acting as a Wireless Access Point?
2) If I am wrong on #1, does it mean that Actiontec is protecting me, except for the 192.168.1.24 address, as it is the only one that I have DMZ'ed
All input is appreciated as always.
Edit: Yes, its LAN to LAN, as I have corrected it now. | |
| I think you meant "Actiontec (LAN) to 4500 (LAN)," right?
Putting the 4500 in the DMZ will give anyone on the internet access to its administrative interface. And people/programs probe port 80 all the time. At a minimum, the admin interface for the 4500 is at risk; maybe more stuff as well.
Sounds like she tried to be helpful, but the advice she gave you is really only relevant if you're running the 4500 as a secondary router behind the Actiontec. In your 4500 AP mode configuration, all I can see this accomplishing is to let outsiders administer your 4500.
| |
 More FiberPremium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:28 | reply to Mystiky4
I'm confused. You just stated you're connected Actiontec (WAN) to WNDR4500 (LAN). Yet you've stated several times in this thread that the Actiontec WAN port is connected to the ONT. It can't be both ways.
You also included the following which is ambiguous:
quote:
ONT > Actiontec (via Enternet / WAN port) > WNDR4500 (via Ethernet / LAN port) > PC (via Ethernet / LAN port).
I'm assuming you mean:
ONT--(WAN)Actiontec(LAN)---(LAN)WNDR4500(LAN)---PC
It has been asked several times that you connect your PC directly to a LAN port on the Actiontec and see if the problem still occurs. If the problem still occurs connected directly to the Actiontec, then the WNDR4500 is not involved in the problem. Please try this.
1) I call BS on the DMZ "solution" given to you. Putting the WNDR4500 in the DMZ with a LAN-to-LAN connection will forward all packets not otherwise delivered by the Actiontec to the 192.168.1.24 address. That will expose the WNDR4500 admin GUI to the internet (not a good idea).
2) Other LAN devices are somewhat protected by the Actiontec firewall in that normal packets won't be forwarded to those devices, however, having a LAN device in the DMZ can still cause malicious broadcast packets to be delivered to all devices on your LAN.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.
| |
| *** I'm assuming you mean: ONT--(WAN)Actiontec(LAN)---(LAN)WNDR4500(LAN)---PC ***
Yes, you are correct! And I also had a Freudian slip, as it is LAN to LAN.
I promise to connect my PC directly to LAN of the Actiontec (no WNDR4500 anywhere) as my next step of testing. I just wanted to rule out a defective Actiontec or WNDR4500 first. The fact that I now have tested 2 of each pretty leaves me thinking it must be something else.
Thanks for the input. | |
| reply to Mystiky4
I again spoke to Verizon technician a few minutes ago, and she agreed that what I did is not really safe. So, they proposed the following, since I want to have the WNDR4500 hardwired connected to the computer that I use and I don't want to run another homerun cable from the basement to the 2nd floor of the house (meaning I cannot have the Actiontec physically next to the WNDR4500).
From the ONT via COAX: Connect to the the Actiontec
From the ONT via ETHERNET: Connect to a a 5-port Gigabit Ethernet Desktop Switch Box (for example, Netgear GS105NA).
From the Switch Box have one homerun Ethernet that goes into the WAN port of the WNDR4500, and make it the primary router.
From the Switch Box have one homerun that goes into the LAN port of the Actiontec.
Inside the WNDR4500 setup, DMZ the port address of the Actiontec (192.168.1.1)
The technician said that if I do this, I will be able to keep all FIOS TV options (caller-id, DVR, etc...) since the STB's will be able to get their date via Coax and/or Ethernet. She said that I will not need to worry about dual-forwarding ports,etc.
Does it make sense? If so, what is thie closest setup option # from the "Verizon Online FiOS FAQ » 3.0 Networking" paper that their are suggesting for me to use?
I also did ask her what happens if I don't use a Switch Box and just have the Actiontec connected via COAX (no connections between it and WNDR4500). She said then the STB boxes will not get TV Guide, VOD, etc...
As always, feedback appreciated!
| |
guppy_fishPremium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1 | Nope, you can have internet on one ( Coax ) or the other ( Ethernet ), not both | |
More FiberPremium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:28 | reply to Mystiky4
said by Mystiky4:From the Switch Box have one homerun Ethernet that goes into the WAN port of the WNDR4500, and make it the primary router.
From the Switch Box have one homerun that goes into the LAN port of the Actiontec.
Nope. You can't mix LAN and WAN in the same switch.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.
| |
1 edit | More Fiber: So it seems the only solution for me is what you wrote up in part 3.1 of the FAQ:
»Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »Replacing the Actiontec (part 3): WAN-to-LAN keeps Guide and VOD (easier)
or
»Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »Replacing the Actiontec (part 4): LAN-to-LAN keeps VZ MediaManager
Either of which would require the two be next to each other...
Yuck... | |
1 edit | reply to Mystiky4
So many people here are trying to help me here. I am afraid this whole situation is driving me a bit crazy, but I want to ask a couple of simple questions.
1) What will happen if I keep the IP of my WNDR4500 DMZ'ed inside the Actiontec, but plug the Ethernet cable into the WNDR4500's WAN port whole keeping the AP Mode?
2) Is there any setup that I can use that will keep the TV Guide and VOD (I don't need caller ID or DVR option) that will keep Actiontec PRIMARY (with no wifi) and WNDR4500 secondary, using a LAN (Actiontec) to WAN port of the WNDR4500?
I am learning about this whole new world so please forgive my lack of knowledge in some of these situations. I just wish that my original LAN to LAN would just work as it's supposed to (and does for so many people out there!). | |
 birdfeedrPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:8 | said by Mystiky4:2) Is there any setup that I can use that will keep the TV Guide and VOD (I don't need caller ID or DVR option) that will keep Actiontec PRIMARY (with no wifi) and WNDR4500 secondary, using a LAN (Actiontec) to WAN port of the WNDR4500?
The two routers don't need to be next to each other if they are wired. I have my primary on one floor, and the secondary in the basement.
If you don't need Caller ID or DVR options to work, don't forget you can make the WNDR4500 as primary with the Actiontec LAN-to-LAN off that. (Use the part 4 FAQ you referenced earlier). This setup still allows Guide data and VOD.
If you want to keep the Actiontec primary, and the WNDR secondary, then connect the Actiontec LAN to the WNDR WAN. Use the part 3 FAQ, except where instructions refer to "your router", apply them to the Actiontec, and where instructions refer to Actiontec, apply them to the WNDR. In this setup, both routers are running on separate subnets, so Actiontec LAN devices can't see the WNDR LAN devices, but your description so far indicates it's not required.
Although I'm not convinced the problem is the Gen3 Actiontec, if you still have that Rev.F, hook it up as primary with the WNDR secondary LAN-to-LAN. | |
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