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Krisnatharok
PC Builder, Gamer
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join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit

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Krisnatharok

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Game Dev Pulls out of E3 over SOPA

... starts Gaming Foundation instead!

»arstechnica.com/gaming/n ··· sade.ars

The Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) and its Senate cousin the Protect IP Act (PIPA) are like thermonuclear devices deployed to kill an insect. They would give copyright holders and the US government unprecedented abilities to summarily block and cut off funding for websites accused of violating copyright. Major sites ranging from reddit to Wikipedia are voluntarily going dark today in protest of the proposed laws, as an illustration of the silencing effect they could have on Internet free speech.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg for PC game developer Red 5 Studios. Not only has the studio blocked access to the beta of free-to-play open-world shooter Firefall for the day, but it also revealed last week that it is pulling out of the annual Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) showcase, which is run by the SOPA-supporting Entertainment Software Association (ESA).

Red 5 will also use the $50,000 it would have spent on a promotional E3 booth to start The League For Gamers, a grassroots group it calls "a gathering place for gamers, developers and industry supporters who want to stand against legislation that's detrimental to the games industry."

The URL of the gaming foundation is »www.leagueforgamers.org

Red 5 is the developer behind Firefall. Must say I have now bumped it to the top of my "must play" list for their opposition to SOPA among a bunch of companies more concerned about DRM and their bottom line.

The Red 5 CEO is a law student grad and was team lead for WoW over at Blizzard for 7 years.

I AM
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join:2010-04-11
Ephrata, PA

I AM

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Awesome really. Now if they will just give me my beta code for FIREFALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jobbie
Keep It Simple
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join:2010-08-24
Mexico

Jobbie

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Totally agree Kris. So much respect for this company. I will look for Firefall now since it was outside my gaming radar.
Tehuno
join:2005-01-18
Bartlesville, OK

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They will just end up blocking the leagueofgamers site...

incoming great firewall of the USA.

Mcrobrewer
Premium Member
join:2001-03-04
Trenton, NJ

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I need to look into the specific legislation.... but I do not support IP or copyright theft of any kind.

Krisnatharok
PC Builder, Gamer
Premium Member
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit

Krisnatharok

Premium Member

I don't think you have to be a pirate to be against legislation that destroys Constitutional rights.

The pro-consumer gaming companies (like Red 5 and Valve) have continuously said that the industry should be investing in convenience for the consumer instead of restrictive DRM that only punishes the paying customer and rewards pirates.

But no, the MPAA and RIAA have declared that foreign piracy is the #1 threat to America, and Free Speech and Due Process are acceptable casualties in the fight against the punk teen squatting your internet connection on with BitTorrent.

Mcrobrewer
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join:2001-03-04
Trenton, NJ

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Does The Constitution through "Free Speech" allow me to support illegal activity?

Adalicia
Om Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE

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Adalicia

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No but SOPA and PIPA also are too broad in their wording to properly protect the internet and your free speech. They would give the government, and thus corporate interests, unprecedented power when it comes to "filtering" the Internet in addition to forcing ISPs to "police" their consumers. Never mind the fact that you can't actually block shit on the internet like that, nor the DNS issues that would result or questionable extradition of evil "terrorists" from the United Kingdom.

I know you hate those evil pirates, stealing all that money from those industries that refuse to adapt to modern times, drop antique distribution techniques, and evolve with the the rest of the world, and hell who wouldn't be mad knowing Brad Pitt didn't get the millions he deserves for doing Mr. & Mrs. Smith, he has all those adopted children to feed!

What are SOPA and PIPA?

SOPA (the "Stop Online Piracy Act") and PIPA (the "Protect Intellectual Property Act") are bills in the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate, respectively. These bills are presented as efforts to stop copyright infringement committed by foreign web sites, but in our opinion, they do so in a way that would disrupt free expression and harm the Internet. Detailed information about these bills can be found in the Stop Online Piracy Act and PROTECT IP Act articles on Wikipedia (which remained available during the blackout). GovTrack lets you follow both bills through the legislative process: SOPA on this page, and PIPA on this one. The Electronic Frontier Foundation, an organization that advocates for the public interest in the digital realm, has summarized the flaws in these bills, and the threats to an open, secure, and free Internet.

It is entirely possible to be against piracy and IP theft while still not being in support of two pieces of legislation that are too ambiguously written to really do anything other than easily be manipulated.

Google said, for example, if this were the pass they would have to take YouTube down. Period. Because there would be too much liability, there would be no way they could ever "police" it to the levels this bill would ask.

WHERE WOULD I GET MY CUTE KITTEN VIDEOS?!

Also, I would download a car if I could.

More on topic, I support Red 5 and I support their request that other game developers do the same. The ESA makes their largest amount of money from E3, they do not represent the gaming industry as a whole, the developers do, big and small, and we do. The idea is that if enough folks do this, if Kotoku and Game Informer and whoever the fuck else, and these companies don't cover, don't attend, don't support E3 the ESA may be a bit more open to changing their mind of supporting a horribly written piece of legislation.

Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
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join:2000-08-05
united state

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Thanks for the link. And he is dead on about:
quote:
I mean, have you ever rented a movie? What do you see? What's your experience when you pop in a DVD or a Blu-Ray? You get a ton of ads up front. It takes you forever to get to the movie. You get advertising in the menus, now. The interface is horrible. I mean, compare that to someone who just downloads a movie from the internet where they have no ads, no BS in front of it, and they just watch the movie! That's what the movie industry should be doing. They should be offering better features and better service to their customers, to really make the case against why you don't want to pirate them.

The above is so damn true. One reason why I "love" Netflix. It's legal and i get the movies without ads.
A shame the industry is trying to crush Netflix.

Same with games. I've stopped buying new games, instead I just rent them, or play the free to play games. I can't see plunking down 60 bucks for a game that has at the most 20 hours of play time.

Lothario
join:2009-09-30
Ottawa, ON

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»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So ··· espotism

After having thus successively taken each member of the community in its powerful grasp and fashioned him at will, the supreme power then extends its arm over the whole community. It covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd.

I have always thought that servitude of the regular, quiet, and gentle kind which I have just described might be combined more easily than is commonly believed with some of the outward forms of freedom, and that it might even establish itself under the wing of the sovereignty of the people.

Our contemporaries are constantly excited by two conflicting passions: they want to be led, and they wish to remain free. As they cannot destroy either the one or the other of these contrary propensities, they strive to satisfy them both at once. They devise a sole, tutelary, and all-powerful form of government, but elected by the people. They combine the principle of centralization and that of popular sovereignty; this gives them a respite: they console themselves for being in tutelage by the reflection that they have chosen their own guardians. Every man allows himself to be put in leading-strings, because he sees that it is not a person or a class of persons, but the people at large who hold the end of his chain.

By this system the people shake off their state of dependence just long enough to select their master and then relapse into it again. A great many persons at the present day are quite contented with this sort of compromise between administrative despotism and the sovereignty of the people; and they think they have done enough for the protection of individual freedom when they have surrendered it to the power of the nation at large. This does not satisfy me: the nature of him I am to obey signifies less to me than the fact of extorted obedience. I do not deny, however, that a constitution of this kind appears to me to be infinitely preferable to one which, after having concentrated all the powers of government, should vest them in the hands of an irresponsible person or body of persons. Of all the forms that democratic despotism could assume, the latter would assuredly be the worst.

Homunculus
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said by Krisnatharok:

I don't think you have to be a pirate to be against legislation that destroys Constitutional rights.

The pro-consumer gaming companies (like Red 5 and Valve) have continuously said that the industry should be investing in convenience for the consumer instead of restrictive DRM that only punishes the paying customer and rewards pirates.

But no, the MPAA and RIAA have declared that foreign piracy is the #1 threat to America, and Free Speech and Due Process are acceptable casualties in the fight against the punk teen squatting your internet connection on with BitTorrent.

Our founding fathers (ie. foreign invaders) had internet?

Adalicia
Om Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE

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Thought this was relevant, The PirateBay Press Release:

INTERNETS, 18th of January 2012. PRESS RELEASE, FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE.

Over a century ago Thomas Edison go the patent for a device which would "do for the eye what the phonograph does for the ear." He called it the Kinetoscope. He was not only amongst the first to record video, he was also the first person to own the copyright to a motion picture.

Because of Edison's patents for the motion pictures it was close to financially impossible to create motion pictures in the North American East Coast. The movie studios therefore relocated to California, and founded what we today call Hollywood. The reason was mostly because there was no patent. There was also no copyright to speak of, so the studios could copy old stories and make movies out of them - like Fantasia, one of Disney's biggest hits ever.

So, the whole basis of this industry, that today is screaming about losing control over immaterial rights, is that they circumvented immaterial rights. They copied (or put in their terminology: "stole") other peoples creative works, without paying for it. They did it in order to make a huge profit. Today, they're all successful and most of the studios are on the Fortune 500 list of the richest companies in the world. Congratulations - it's all based on being able to reuse other peoples creative works. And today they hold the rights to what other people create. If you want to get something released, you have to abide to their rules. The ones they created after circumventing other peoples rules.

The reason they're always complaining about "pirates" today is simple. We've done what they did. We circumvented the rules they created and created our own. We crushed their monopoly by giving people something more efficient. We allow people to have direct communication between each other, circumventing the profitable middle man, that in some cases take over 107% of the profits (yes, you pay to work for them). It's all based on the fact that we're competition. We've proven that their existence in their current form is no longer needed. We're just better than they are.

And the funny part is that our rules are very similar to the founding ideas of the USA. We fight for the freedom of speech, we see all people as equal. We believe that the public, not the elite, should rule the nation. We believe that laws should be created to serve the public, not the rich corporations.

The Pirate Bay is truly an international community. The team is spread all over the globe - but we've stayed out of the USA. WE have Swedish roots and a Swedish friend said this: The word "SOPA" means "trash" in Swedish. The word PIPA means "a pipe" in Swedish. This is of course not a coincidence. They want to make the internet into a one way pipe with them at the top shoving trash through the pipe down to the rest of us obedient consumers. The public opinion on this matter is clear. Ask anyone on the street and you'll learn that no one wants to be fed with trash. Why the US government wants the American people to be fed with trash is beyond our imagination but we hope that you will stop them, before we all drown.

SOPA can't do anything to stop TPB. Worst case we'll change top level domain from our current .org to one of the hundreds of other names that we already use. In countries where TPB is blocked, China and Saudi Arabia springs to mind, they block hundreds of our domain names, and did it work? Not really. To fix the "problem of piracy" one should go to the source of the problem. The entertainment industry say they're creating "culture" but what they really do is stuff like selling overpriced plushy dolls and making 11 year old girls become anorexic. Either from working in the factories that creates the dolls for basically no salary or by watching movies and tv shows that makes them think they're fat.

In the great Sid Meiers computer game Civilization you can build the Wonders of the World. One of the most powerful ones is Hollywood. With that you can control all culture and media in the world. Rupert Murdoch was happy with MySpace and no problems with their own piracy until it failed. Now he's complaining that Google is the biggest source of piracy in the world - because he's jealous. He wants to retain his mind control over people and clearly you'd get a honest view of things on Wikipedia and Google than on Fox News.

Some facts (years, dates) are probably wrong in this press release. The reason is that we can't access this information when Wikipedia is blacked out. Because of pressure from our failing competitors. We're sorry for that.

THE PIRATE BAY, (K)2012


Jobbie
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Mexico

Jobbie

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said by Adalicia:

Some facts (years, dates) are probably wrong in this press release.The reason is that we can't access this information when Wikipedia is blacked out. Because of pressure from our failing competitors. We're sorry for that.

Priceless....

Adalicia
Om Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE

Adalicia

Member

I thought that was a nice touch. TPB is nothing if not folks with a generally good sense of humor.
Savious6
join:2009-11-20
Belgrade, MT

Savious6

Member

Two words: Haji Mart.

Pirated movies funding terrorism. For real.
Savious6

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Also, The Pirate Bay is not some sort of evil do gooder type cast character, ala Batman or Robin Hood.

All the enable is a bunch of dipshits to priate movies and music and software. I stopped doing that when I became an adult and could buy my own products. Really? Does it bother me that I have to pay 16 bucks for my wife and I to go to a 2 hour movie? No. You know why, because I dont work at fucking McDonalds. Im not 19.

Yes, these policies are probably too far reaching and could have a dramatic effect, but to call the Pirate Bay a bunch of saints is laughable.
Savious6

Savious6

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More crap about the ME generation. Why should I have to pay money to watch a movie, I want to watch it! WAHHH

Lothario
join:2009-09-30
Ottawa, ON

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said by Savious6:

Two words: Haji Mart.

Pirated movies funding terrorism. For real.

You have more to fear from Wall street than from some camel jockey in the middle east.
Savious6
join:2009-11-20
Belgrade, MT

Savious6

Member

Depends on where I am. 4-12 months ago, I would say I had more to fear from the camel jockeys shooting 120mm rockets at me, but thats just me.

The thing is, they pirated the newest movies, things that werent even out in theaters yet, and sell it to us for $5 a pop. I bought Red Faction Armageddon and Duke Nukem Forever for $7, and a Gucci and Rolex knock off for $17. Where do you think this money goes to? It was funny because if we were going to get rocketed during the day, magically all the shop keepers disappeared. Weird right?

Jobbie
Keep It Simple
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join:2010-08-24
Mexico

Jobbie

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The Wall Street people that sent you there in the first place are scary.
Tehuno
join:2005-01-18
Bartlesville, OK

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said by Savious6:

Also, The Pirate Bay is not some sort of evil do gooder type cast character, ala Batman or Robin Hood.

All the enable is a bunch of dipshits to priate movies and music and software. I stopped doing that when I became an adult and could buy my own products. Really? Does it bother me that I have to pay 16 bucks for my wife and I to go to a 2 hour movie? No. You know why, because I dont work at fucking McDonalds. Im not 19.

Yes, these policies are probably too far reaching and could have a dramatic effect, but to call the Pirate Bay a bunch of saints is laughable.

sooo, are you pro sopa/pipa?

Adalicia
Om Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE

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said by Savious6:

...to call the Pirate Bay a bunch of saints is laughable.

I'm sorry you got sand in your vagina. I don't believe I said anything other than "TPB is nothing if not folks with a generally good sense of humor," and if you disagree then you sir have a poor sense of humor.

But anyway, lets pick some of this shit apart real quick.
said by Savious6:

Two words: Haji Mart.

Pirated movies funding terrorism. For real.

Gotta stop buying into propaganda man. I'm unsure how someone downloading Episode 6 of the Game of Thrones from TPB's website (a show that many people would gladly get on DVD / Blu-Ray if it was actually released but alas, at this point it still hasn't been), that features porn advertising 99% of the time, requires no actual payment on the users part, and has loads of entertaining comments, is funding "Haji Mart" which, bravo, that isn't at all stereotypical nor in the least bit offensive.

Generally the "hackers" that crack programs, rip movies, and so on aren't "dune coons" or whatever racially colorful term I'm sure you're itching to use. It is usually a twenty something neckbeard that has too much time on his hands and despite the fact that could likely be programing for a fairly decent company is content with writing crack files for Adobe Photoshop CS Whatever-The-Fuck version.

I suppose by this logic however, Hollywood is funding Terrorism by their inability to adapt to modern times and offer efficient and convenient means of content that users would probably gladly pay for if it didn't come with some of the aforementioned complaints you can find anywhere (previews, poor compression, physical media, etc).

Microsoft is funding terrorism with their outrageous prices on their Operating System, OEM being the only one with in reason but heaven help you if you have to upgrade your motherboard or you do a new build. Sure you can get the retail version but have fund spending three times the amount and generally only being able to get "three packs" from who ever.

Adobe is funding terrorism by charging well over a thousand dollars for their Photoshop program, which by all rights is basically the same version I used in High School (Photoshop 5) with a slightly more confusing UI, a few small improvements here and there, but generally just another yearly grab for a thousand dollars, unless of course you work for a corporation or you have a student discount, in which case it is still several hundreds.

But you're right, a bunch of Swedish folks give all that porn ad revenue over to Haji Mart. Thousand times better than Wal-Mart, there are less fat people on scooters.
said by Savious6:

All the enable is a bunch of dipshits to priate movies and music and software. I stopped doing that when I became an adult and could buy my own products. Really? Does it bother me that I have to pay 16 bucks for my wife and I to go to a 2 hour movie? No. You know why, because I dont work at fucking McDonalds. Im not 19.

Yes, they offer movies, music, software, books, image sets, and basically everything you could think of that can be consumed digitally. If you could download a car or food, they'd have that too but sadly that isn't available. Most of us are content with paying money for a product we like. I rarely pirate music, but I also rarely buy CD's or use iTunes. I buy music from artists that publicly release their work, Radiohead being a great example where they say, "Hey, here is our new album, you can pay what you want for it. If you like it a ton, give a ton, if you don't have a bunch of cash, that's cool too," or video game companies that do the same thing. Humble Indie Bundle anyone?

Notch, despite all the flack I give people, especially Redditors over their borderline worship of the guy, is actually really cool. Don't have money to buy Minecraft? His advice: Pirate it. If you dig it, buy it when you can, no biggie.

See, you're not special because you're an adult. You're not special because you can buy your own products. I can too, and I generally do when I feel it warrants my money, which is rare. I'm okay with going to a movie in the theater if I really want to see the movie, besides most "rips" are terrible handicam quality with shit audio, or in Russian.
said by Savious6:

Yes, these policies are probably too far reaching and could have a dramatic effect, but to call the Pirate Bay a bunch of saints is laughable.

And now we're back where we started. They do go too far.

And once again I never said they were saints. I said they have a good sense of humor, they always have, for years and years. Their press release was in response to SOPA and the Black Out yesterday and as that is a part of this thread I thought it relevant.

What they had to say is basically all true. Do what you can, you can't stop them because you can't stop an idea.
Adalicia

1 edit

Adalicia

Member

You've also mixed up "pirating" with "bootlegging."

When I "pirate" something I'm downloading it for my own use.

When I "bootleg" something I'm either producing it to sell for a significantly reduced price or I'm buying a "bootlegged copy" of something from someone else. What they do with my money is what they do with it.

Now then, why would I pay money for a bootlegged copy of...whatever...Back Door Beauties 27, when I can just download the fucker myself.

Don't blame a provider for what other people do with the content. You blame gun manufacturers every time someone gets shot?

Edit:

Once more, thought I would add, that piracy, as it stands, if "ended" wouldn't end bootlegging, nor funding your Haji Mart. You can get a physical copy of anything, any program, any movie, any game, and you can mass produce copies. It isn't hard. DRM and anti piracy things don't mean shit and are easy to get around. You "end" TPB, you don't "end" piracy. You never will. Ever. Because there is always going to be someone who will figure a way to do it, for whatever reason, if only to just know that it can be done.

Believe it or not there are people that do this shit that think like that. It is a challenge, a game. Who is smarter? You might have won this time, but I'll beat your system.

And they do.
Tehuno
join:2005-01-18
Bartlesville, OK

Tehuno

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remember the "uncrackable" spore that ea released? Yeah shit was cracked before it even hit the shelves.

Crackers >>>>> DRM programmers.
Savious6
join:2009-11-20
Belgrade, MT

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See, the difference is that not everyone is a hipster like you. Maybe I want to listen to FloRida or Lady Gaga or whatever the fuck. Good for Minecraft and Radiohead! That was there decision, others have made different decisions, but that doesnt mean we have the right to steal from one person because another is giving it away free.

The fact of the matter is that people are STEALING. Yes. STEALING these things. Just because you aren't walking into a store and stuffing it down your pants doesn't make it any different!

People were given a great tool to use in the internet, and they used it to pirate movies and download Back Door Beauties 27. The general public is irresponsible and can not be trusted to do the right thing, ever.

Should my ISP monitor my usage and report me if I am illegally downloading movies. Fucking right. If I am stuffing bananas down my pants in Wal Mart should someone say "Hey! I work my ass of to buy bananas for my family, why should that douche get them for free!" YES!

So the answer to this problem for you is to just throw your hands up in the air and say "Whatever, well never catch them anyways, so we give up!"

Thats the winning American spirit right there!

Im saying pirated and then bootlegged copies of movies being sold in Iraq, to American Soldiers is a direct link to funding terrorism. So the question is, whose fault is it? The production companies, their security team, Iran, Soldiers for buying the shit? I dont know, I dont want to point fingers and blame people, I would rather say "Pirated Copeis of movies are being sold and funding terrorist. Solution; stop piracy as best we can."

I support the idea that we are ripping off our own people left and right for our $50 a month internet connection, and we need to put a stop to it. Piracy has been a huge factor in PC games sales dropping dramatically and less support for PC Gaming in general, and that is a fact. To argue for piracy in this forum is ironic and hypocritical.
Savious6

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Honestly, I havent read the entire bill; however, I think its asinine that companies are all up in arms about it when they should be working with the government, not against it to solve the problem.

Adalicia
Om Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE

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said by Savious6:

Im saying pirated and then bootlegged copies of movies being sold in Iraq, to American Soldiers is a direct link to funding terrorism. So the question is, whose fault is it? The production companies, their security team, Iran, Soldiers for buying the shit? I dont know, I dont want to point fingers and blame people, I would rather say "Pirated Copeis of movies are being sold and funding terrorist. Solution; stop piracy as best we can."

I support the idea that we are ripping off our own people left and right for our $50 a month internet connection, and we need to put a stop to it. Piracy has been a huge factor in PC games sales dropping dramatically and less support for PC Gaming in general, and that is a fact. To argue for piracy in this forum is ironic and hypocritical.

I don't time to reply to this in full right now but...

First Paragraph: "Guns kill people." Solution: Stop gun manufacturing as best we can.

See how that works?

Second paragraph:

PC game sales are actually higher than they have been in years thanks to developers and distributors working with Valve and the Steam platform, pushing Digital Distribution for more than reasonable prices and offering amazing deals.

Games like Modern Warfare III, The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, and Deus Ex: Human Evolution owe their entire PC success, and success in general as the PC market is bigger than people expect, to Steam.

Know the last time I pirated a PC game? Before Steam existed. Wanna know the next time I'll pirate a PC game? After Steam ceases to exist or it becomes something other than it is now.

People have no problem paying for content they want when it is on acceptable terms, terms they approve of.

Try again.
Savious6
join:2009-11-20
Belgrade, MT

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said by Adalicia:

said by Savious6:

...to call the Pirate Bay a bunch of saints is laughable.

"Haji Mart" which, bravo, that isn't at all stereotypical nor in the least bit offensive.

Generally the "hackers" that crack programs, rip movies, and so on aren't "dune coons" or whatever racially colorful term I'm sure you're itching to use.

Give me a break on this hoity toity bullshit. I have no problem with Muslims. If your offended by it then ignore it, I am not burning Qurans here, pal.
Savious6

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said by Adalicia:

I don't time to reply to this in full right now but...

First Paragraph: "Guns kill people." Solution: Stop gun manufacturing as best we can.

See how that works?

Nice. Except guns aren't illegal, so, see how that works?

Heres an aritcle on Toms Hardware about piracy back in 2008. Funny thing is that one of the developers has the same plan as you, dont fight, just give in and hope the good people will pull through for you.

»www.tomshardware.com/new ··· 467.html

Ever been in Gamestop, Wal Mart etc?? There are like maybe 4 shelves with PC games, compared to AISLES of Xbox and Playstation and Wii games.

But aside from all of that, there are still millions of people that will still, with out question, illegally download and play MW3 and whatever other game you want to rattle off from Steam.
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

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You are using scare tactics to drum support for legislation that would erode our freedom.
I dont buy your propaganda, or TPB's.
The studios and tpb have a vested interest in the matter so I take that into account. There are already overreaching laws to protect ip, enough already.