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First job with networking

He needs to get some real world experience. A lot of grads now think they are going to step right into a nice cushy job out of college but that's not going to happen. Nobody in their right mind is going to throw someone that just has certs and a degree to the wolves like that. He is going to have to take an internship, or a very low level (probably lower paying) job and prove himself. At least that's what I would expect. When I interview candidates, I couldn't care less what they learned in a class. I am more interested in what they have worked with in real life situations. The only people that get hired into our Infrastructure team here all have experience. I am sure there are other organizations that are willing to hire inexperienced staff to cut payroll costs.

Thanks for the info.

I don't have any unrealistic expectations as to the type of position he should interview for, just that I don't know what is required for an entry/junior level position and how common they may be. I know some network departments are vary large and may have a position available for someone just starting out to handle beginner type tasks whereas other network departments are smaller so each member is a seasoned veteran.

I am trying to find out how realistic it is for him to get a job in a networking department and whether to start out with Cisco classes or if he has to go the Microsoft certification or similar route and spend years doing PC and server support before taking Cisco courses and starting with an entry/junior level position.

reply to rileymartin
Without getting through PC or server support, I would think of cabling or wiring work. From your description, I would assume your son has some understanding of basic electricity or electronics (i.e. using multimeter as a start). Cabling or wiring work could lead you to data center engineering job, which may also require knowledge of HVAC, circuits, and basic IP networking.

reply to rileymartin
1st level support desk at an ISP would be my recommendation. He'll get some exposure to ISP networks and operations, and some basic grounding in Internet and network technology.

If hes able to cut the mustard, show that he can learn, and can demonstrate a good understanding and application of IP network knowledge and other telecomms related topics, he can probably move to a second line position which will open up a new world of opportunities to learn and dip his feet.

And once again, if he can demonstrate his abilities there, then there could be opportunities to move to a higher line (many ISPs operate a 3rd line desk) or into an operations department, either network or systems, or anything else thats available that takes his fancy.

Or somewhere in between he might realise that its just not his thing and want to pursue other interests - perhaps he finds he likes sales more, or customer satisfaction - there are a myriad of different roles in telecommunications companies.

My own personal story is similar to the above, but a bit more mixed up:

* I started on 1st line at one ISP, and was able to move to operations within 6 months due to a lucky break (but I was also thoroughly interested in the kind of work I did and excelled with ease). After 18 months at that ISP I moved to a bigger one where...
* I started on their 2nd line desk and stayed there for about 2 years (namely due to lack of internal opportunities) after which I moved back to an operational role which turned out to be exactly the kind of job I dreamed of having when I was younger.

I stayed there for a further 5 years before moving on to exceptionally bigger things over in Europe.

Having been through this kind of career path, I really cant stress enough how thankful I am for going through it, and highly recommend it - and believe me, I was aching to get into my dream job of operations off the bat, but its unrealistic in a lot of cases. It really allows you to discover your own abilities, test them out, learn a great deal on personal and technical levels, meet new friends, and the reward of promotion to the next level and everything that comes with it (more pay, bigger better things to work on, more technical and complex things to learn about) is just oh so sweet.

I had to move out of home to take the job with my first employer to a city about 2 hours drive away (living in a rural area there were not many, if any opportunities), which is also another great life experience, and teaches you a lot about various responsibilities. For many the liberation of finally getting away from their parents is also a big driver for this kind of move if its not for more practical reasons (like mine.)

Completely agree with tier 1 support @ an ISP. I got my first "real" networking job at a telco doing provisioning, they took a very real interest in training us, and in under 6 weeks you were off provisioning service. Lots of guys were underqualified but got along, those of us that had a CCNA already and worked toward their CCNP were able to move up very quickly to the operational side or engineering roles.

Agreed.

I took the strange (and difficult) way in. Started in desktop support, switched divisions to the network side of things, and moved up from there. I would say from personal experience, don't get certified in anything you don't want to have to do full time. I had a tough time even with a CCNA moving over to the network side of things since I was also MCSE certified (and was hired as such). Also, I would say that unless you want to work as an entry level (or close to that) position, to get a 4 year degree. Many of the more competitive companies want a 4 year degree, and will take a 4 year degree over an A.A.S with experience (some may dispute this). Job experience is still critical though, especially in this field since you have to hit the ground running in a lot of situations.

reply to TomS_

I would try transferring groups/divisions if you are able, rather than trying to join a new company.

Where I work there's already a network guy in charge of the infrastructure. Not sure if they feel they can use some help even though I'm inexperienced.

reply to rileymartin
My experience is 100% opposite of the some of the above as I can attest to personal friend's experience that working at an ISP level 1 support is a dead end job unless you get a lucky break... this is a one in a million shot... He's a triple CCIE and works at no ISP.

My suggestion is definitely to ditch the CompTIA as it is mostly for a helpdesk job and not network. I highly recommend the CCNA and he's very talented to go straight for CCNP. Because this proves that the an Entry technician can and is willing to get his hands on Cisco and other network gear without asking "Hey where do I stick this cable into?"

reply to rileymartin
My 00000010bits

- Definately finish school / college -- teaches learning, working together, perserverence,
time management, et al.

- If he REALLY wants networking, jump into Cisco or whatever right away. This early in the
career path, find out if you like it rather than "leading up to" it. The alternative is find
a program that does alittle of everything IT so he can get a sense of what sparks his interest.

- start looking around / networking for where the opportunities are locally or regionally,
the sooner the better. One thing that REALLY sucks -- and I've had the detriment of learning
a few times -- is finishing that certificate / degree / etc and finding there is no market
for your skillset when you finish.

- even if he doesn't get a networking job / position right away, as others have said, it should
be viewed as an OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN and take something away from it -- again, things like
people skills, perserverence, time management, customer service. Not all learning is from
a book.

- corollary of this is keep the right attitude. Again, may not get his dream job right off
the bat, but if he consistently shows up late, does sloppy work, etc. etc and is just punching
the clock, chances are he's going to be viewed as deadweight. Also IT can be a rather small-knit
community, so if another opportunity opened up for him, he may never know if IT Guy A knows IT
Guy B and drops him a line "I know this kid you just hired. This kid worked for me 1month ago, but..."

Regards

Thank you everyone for all the input and information.

I guess you really don't know until you try. Perhaps if he goes on enough interviews he will eventually find a network department looking to augment their staff with a junior level person.

There are actually a lot of junior level opportunities around, especially in Manhattan. Most of them are probably desktop support with some networking. Some are Level-1 network support, either in ISP, telco, or large corporation environment. Either path would lead you to something close enough to networking.

My advice is to have your son start with something small, like setting up home or small network for multiple PC, servers, and phones with Internet access. He can start by putting one up at his own residence (or family member's) using cheap Cisco routers, switches, firewall, and phones in addition to some PC and servers. This experience in addition to actual working experience will lay solid foundation to move forward.