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Austinloop

join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX
kudos:1
reply to pnh102

Re: WTF Is Kansas City's Problem

After reading thru the Kansas City Star, the main problem is hanging google's cable in the 40 inch zone, normally reserved for power.

Otherwise, cable tv and telephone have to lower their attachments, which takes time and costs money, which neither will do for free. Hanging cable in the 40 inch zone can be very risky from a safety point of view.

To really mess up the install, it will take just one lineman contacting the 7.2 kv, or higher primary lines to show the folly of hanging cable in the power zone.



pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

said by Austinloop:

After reading thru the Kansas City Star, the main problem is hanging google's cable in the 40 inch zone, normally reserved for power.

Otherwise, cable tv and telephone have to lower their attachments, which takes time and costs money, which neither will do for free. Hanging cable in the 40 inch zone can be very risky from a safety point of view.

To really mess up the install, it will take just one lineman contacting the 7.2 kv, or higher primary lines to show the folly of hanging cable in the power zone.

Sounds like Google should have picked a city that had less crowded utility poles, or which would be more proactive in working towards solving the problem.

It is Google (or any other provider) for that matter that holds all the cards here. I would hope that both KCs understand this and plan accordingly. Look at what happened to Boston and other parts of Massachusetts, or the city of Buffalo NY when they made life difficult for Verizon when they wanted to install FIOS. The local governments there got a big fat "F-U" from Verizon, and the people there cannot get FIOS.
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

1 recommendation

said by pnh102:

Sounds like Google should have picked a city that had less crowded utility poles, or which would be more proactive in working towards solving the problem.

It is Google (or any other provider) for that matter that holds all the cards here. I would hope that both KCs understand this and plan accordingly. Look at what happened to Boston and other parts of Massachusetts, or the city of Buffalo NY when they made life difficult for Verizon when they wanted to install FIOS. The local governments there got a big fat "F-U" from Verizon, and the people there cannot get FIOS.

Oh, I get KC was all for this and even rolled out the red carpet.....until the rubber hit the road and now they are looking for an extra payday.

If Google gets held up by the local governments, then they would be wise to take their ball and go home and leave a note as to why they left including naming names and laying blame.

Austinloop

join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX
kudos:1
reply to pnh102

You will be hard pressed to find any city with uncrowded utility poles. When I was a telco engineer, I received requests for attachment and moving plant to allow attachment on a weekly basis, all of which required money from the entity wanting attachment.

It is a dollar thing, you want me to move my cable attachment down to accommodate your attachment, it will cost x dollars per pole, then multiply that by 2 or 3 depending if cable tv has attachments, or someone else has attachments also.

I, frankly, don't see this as the city giving google a hard time, but trying to maintain the 40 inch electrical clearance, to avoid safety issues.

What I don't understand is why google didn't see this, didn't they field survey the cities?


w4ncr

join:2000-10-27

Sometime in the future power telecom companies will pay a company to maintain utility poles and the underground systems ride away for industry there are plenty of ways to make money!


Austinloop

join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX
kudos:1

Regardless of who maintains the utility poles, someone will have to pay to have existing attachments changed, so that really changes nothing concerning attachments in the 40 inch safety zone.



pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
reply to Austinloop

I'm not disputing the safety aspects of this. I am simply saying that it is imperative that both cities come up with a solution that addresses these concerns.
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.


Austinloop

join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX
kudos:1

pnh, unfortunately, the solution involves having other utilities move their attachments to make room for google. That costs money, are you saying that the other utilities should move just as a favor to google.

I don't know how much experience you have with utility outside plant, but safety is the #1 priority, hence the 40 inch zone. Perhaps if the municipalities would reimburse the existing utilities to move their attachments, google could get it for free.

As I said earlier, google is obviously whining because they failed to do a complete field survey to determine all the problems. Incidentally, this clearance issue is normally observable from the ground without a lot of high tech equipment.

My sympathy for google is extremely limited.


elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

2 edits
reply to Austinloop

said by Austinloop:

You will be hard pressed to find any city with uncrowded utility poles.

...

I, frankly, don't see this as the city giving google a hard time, but trying to maintain the 40 inch electrical clearance, to avoid safety issues.

What I don't understand is why google didn't see this, didn't they field survey the cities?

Google saw this, as you suggest, in every city. They didn't care.

Google Fiber Initiative is a social statement by a pair of Billionaires - presumably ready to back the project with megabucks, regardless of the bumps (and delays) in the road. As usual, they still think they're entitled.

If it takes an extra year, so be it.


rchandra
Stargate Universe fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
reply to pnh102

Interestingly enough, I can get FiOS Internet, FiOS phone service, but I cannot get FiOS TV. Thanks a lot, Cheektowaga (which is just east of Buffalo). Unless explained to me otherwise, I'll have to assume it's you who are dragging your collective and proverbial feet. I've been here a little over 3.25 years, and the Inet/phone/no TV has always been the case. Other areas around here, such as Kenmore and Tonawanda I hear-tell, can get FiOS TV. So I'm not so sure it's some technical limitation, it's just government limitation.

So....at least for the moment, I'm a TWC HSO ("Road Runner") and TV customer.
--
English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules.

Jeopardy! replies and randomcaps REALLY suck!



rchandra
Stargate Universe fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
reply to Austinloop

I dunno quite what it's like in other areas, but here telephone and FiOS are the lowest (basically, FiOS was simply run along with phone cables which have been there for decades), and some nominal distance above that (certainly much less than 40 inches), there's TWC. There's wayyyy more than 40 inches between TWC and power of any sort.

As someone intimately familiar with outside plant, could you please explain the 40 inch zone? On first reading, it seems like this would be a minimum spacing from power. This would imply Google (or any other entity for that matter) could just hang their cables below everyone else, within some practical limit of course to prevent deter tampering.
--
English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules.

Jeopardy! replies and randomcaps REALLY suck!


Austinloop

join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX
kudos:1

Essentially, the 40 inch zone is so you don't stick your head, tools into the high voltage primary power and become a statistic.

As for just hanging cables anywhere on the pole, there are specified clearances between the bottom cable and driveways, roads, etc., hanging one's cable too low provides the opportunity for semi tractor trailers, garbage trucks with their looks exended, etc. tear down the cable, and possibly damage poles. Normally cables belonging to one utility will be run together, with limited, if any separation, in fact the cables may be lashed together to a single messenger strand. This is very prevalent around here where TWC will have several cables, both fiber optic and coaxial.

The bottom utility is normally the telco and the next is cable tv.

In your case, you said that there appears to be way more space above TWC and power than 40 inches. In that case, google is perfectly free to hang their cable there, providing they have made arrangements for attachment fees, etc.

Bearing in mind if 40 inches is all that separates the top utility from the power and the bottom utility just meets code clearance requirements, then whoever wants to add attachments will be paying the pole owner for a new pole and all labor required to remove the attachments from the old pole and attach to the new pole, and those are not insignificant costs.



rchandra
Stargate Universe fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105

Thank you for the explanation.

That, and provided Google's gear wouldn't stress the poles too much due to gravity and the ~120 km/h peak winds we've had