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aannoonn

@optonline.net

Exxon gas cleans intake valves?

Exxon-Mobil is advertising that their gasoline cleans intake valves. Since all modern cars have fuel injection and the gas never passes through the intake valves, how does Exxon's gas clean them?


mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3



Your thought is incorrect, since the injectors inject into the intake manifolds or the port runner *before* the intake valve, it does indeed pass the valves. Only diesel engines use combustion chamber-injection, gasoline uses port-injection or the fuel would not have a chance to properly mix with the air.


Formeister

join:2000-10-28
Somers, CT

Actually, there are many gas engines out there now that use direct injection and most are reporting major problems with intake valve fouling due to no gas spraying on the valve. The attached study makes for an interesting read.


Grumpy
Premium
join:2001-07-28
NW CT
Reviews:
·Comcast
·AT&T Yahoo

1 edit

reply to aannoonn
There is or was a group of high performance vehicle folk who apparently put some science behind rating consumer level brands of gasolines. Unfortunately I can't find them right now. I do recall that Exxon was not among the elite chosen. Perhaps that has changed by now.

The "clean your engines" claim is as old as the industry. Not saying it isn't true, just that we have no means outside of a proper lab to determine if their claims are true. Most gasolines (aside from Hess*) start out on the same boat just down the road from the war in the middle east. It's the additizing at the loading racks that is apparently the difference in qualities. Then you get into Summer vs. Winter blends, which RVP is where, which states cut with corn squeezins' and so on and so forth.

*Hess is claimed to be primarily from North Sea Crude, and not from the sand box. North Sea Crude is in my memory, considered among the best quality of crude available. I don't doubt that's true, although they are a bunch of pricks to work for.


PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA

reply to aannoonn
Detergent additives are required to keep the engine compliant with smog requirements.
Tier 1 is the marketing program to tout detergent additive packages.



mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3

reply to Formeister
Well I knew someone would be a perfectionist and dispute my blanket comment... But, there really aren't "many" yet, and all the applications I have read about in the past have been quite problematic. So, better put, the "vast majority of mainstream-production" cars use port injection...

Maybe someday it will be a good alternative, but they have a long way to go.



neonhomer
KK4BFN
Premium
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL
Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable

Check me if I am wrong, and I think I am...

If you have direct injection, doesn't the fuel pressure/pulse have to be at a higher pressure than cylinder pressure? Otherwise, cylinder pressure would keep the fuel from coming out of the injector, or even back up into the injector.



PoloDude
Premium,VIP
join:2006-03-29
Northport, NY
kudos:2

No. Because the injection happens on the down/intake stroke while the intake valve is open to take in air.

»www.animatedengines.com/



neonhomer
KK4BFN
Premium
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL
Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable

said by PoloDude:

No. Because the injection happens on the down/intake stroke while the intake valve is open to take in air.

»www.animatedengines.com/

DOH! I forgot about that... Compression, power, exhaust, intake...

Lather rinse repeat....

I'm not entirely awake... and I'm hungry.... LOL
--
"F is for Fire that burns down the whole town...
U is for Uranium...... Bombs...
N is for NO SURVIVORS!!!!!" Sheldon Plankton


mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3

said by neonhomer:

DOH! I forgot about that... Compression, power, exhaust, intake...

My college automotive instructor used to refer to that sequence as "Suck Squeeze Bang Blow". Made it much easier for us to remember that way...


aannoonn

@optonline.net

reply to mattmag
So there's one injector per cylinder, located immediately before the intake valve? OK. I always though the injector fed directly into the cylinder, like a spark plug.


Waterbug

join:2008-03-30

reply to aannoonn
This is a little off topic but I just love Shell's claim of a nitrogen additive to clean valves. Air is 78% nitrogen, so just how much nitrogen is necessary for clean valves and how much does Shell add ?



Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18

reply to aannoonn

said by aannoonn :

I always though the injector fed directly into the cylinder, like a spark plug.

Diesel engines mostly Yes, gas engines 90% No.

said by aannoonn :

So there's one injector per cylinder, located immediately before the intake valve?

Most EFI is like that [port fuel injection (PFI), sequential fuel injection (SFI), and tuned port injection (TPI).], then there are some that have one or two injectors in a throttle body to feed all the cylinders for gasoline engines..
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?


No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC
kudos:6

reply to Waterbug
It's good for your tires, too. Makes them go faster. Nitrogen - the miracle element.

I always snicker when see a car with those tell-tale "I'm a fool" green valve stem caps.


Formeister

join:2000-10-28
Somers, CT

reply to mattmag
Since BMW, Ford Ecoboost, GM 2.0 Ecotec, Hyundai, Lexus MazdaSpeed, Mitshubishi & VW use the direct injection systems I wouldn't consider this a rare occurance.


Formeister

join:2000-10-28
Somers, CT

reply to neonhomer
No, you are correct for gasoline DFI systems. They take the ~60 psi FI fuel and pipe it to an auxiliary mechanical pump, usually driven off the camshaft, and in some cases bump it up to 580 psi.


Formeister

join:2000-10-28
Somers, CT

reply to PoloDude
Some DFI systems inject after the intake closes and piston is on the compression stroke, similar to a diesel. These systems use a much higher fuel pressure.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

reply to Waterbug

said by Waterbug:

This is a little off topic but I just love Shell's claim of a nitrogen additive to clean valves. Air is 78% nitrogen, so just how much nitrogen is necessary for clean valves and how much does Shell add ?

The nitrogen here refers to one or more types of "amines" which have been added to the gasoline - with one of the most popular of these being polyetheramine (aka "Techron"). The theory goes that these amines help prevent/remove carbon buildup on valves, cylinder heads, pistons, and so on. Such carbon buildup can lead to all kinds of unpleasantness within an engine.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amine
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techron

fixrman
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
Reviews:
·Vonage
·Verizon FiOS

reply to Formeister
DI is an interesting addition to EFI. It does increase power and fuel atomisation -thereby fuel economy and power output - but it does require Top Tier fuels in order to prevent the carbon buildup issue.

The fact that fuel does not spray on the intake valve is irrelevant, it just means that carbon deposits build up in a different area than on the back face of the intake valve. Either situation can cause a poor performance issue or oil consumption (in the case of DI) problems.
--
"from a broken heart to a hole in the sky"


fixrman
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
Reviews:
·Vonage
·Verizon FiOS

reply to Formeister
DI represents a much smaller percentage of injection designs today than conventional PFI, so it is not commonplace. It is a bit silly to play semantics to most folk's way of thinking.
--
"from a broken heart to a hole in the sky"

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