I Think I know why Momentus XT drives "Chirp" sometime

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Jan Janowski join:2000-06-18 Skokie, IL Reviews: ·Comcast ·AT&T Midwest	I Think I know why Momentus XT drives "Chirp" sometime Just got a Used Momentus XT 320Gb drive, with older SD22 firmware. Put in Buss-powered USB3/2 enclosure. Plugged into USB3 card (with 4 pin power plug). Works fine! (I'm waiting for another Drive caddy so I don't have to pull apart existing drive caddy in laptop to do a firmware update on this drive from SD22 to SD28. While I wait for caddy, using it 'as-is' and am quite happy with it. UNTIL... I tried it on a USB2 port (Front port on Supermicro Server). Chirps! Doesn't spin up. Manual for Server Motherboard indicates this is 'low power' USB2 port. Tried it in Rear of Supermicro (Non-Low Power USB2)... FINE! I never EVER had issues with Momentus XT Drives on/in Dell Laptop. Tried it there. FINE as well! Note here that I have 4 other of the 500Gb XT's, and NONE of them have ever Chiped in the Dell Laptop or External Raid0 assembly... from SD23 to SD28 (the two in Dell laptop on Sata2 buss) and SD23 to SD27 (In External Raid0 array on Express/ESata2 buss). But this senerio (Front USB2 of Supermicro).. Now I have a test bed to see what firmware updates do! Once Caddy gets here, I'll put it in Dell laptop and upgrade firmware... Then, using the Supermicro low power USB2 port, see if firmware upgrade reduces start up current draw, which I'm confidant is the issue with chirping.... Unfortunately, where-as this points at the problem.... I feel sorry for anyone who has this issue in a laptop, as I doubt you can add a bigger +5V wire to the drive power plug!! Anyone have any further information on this issue? -- Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle
	to forum · permalink · 2012-01-24 09:41:59 ·

koitsu Premium,MVM join:2002-07-16 Mountain View, CA kudos:14 1 edit	Re: I Think I know why Momentus XT drives "Chirp" some USB ports which are not physically located on the motherboard/backplane cannot be relied upon to provide the maximum amount of power draw per USB specification. Most are intended to be used with low-power peripherals (mice, keyboards without USB hubs built-in to them, USB pen/keychain drives, etc.). Things like hard disks, webcams, scanners, printers, and similar are classified as "high power" devices. The USB protocol defines the amount of power allowed on a port. Its best to just read the Wikipedia page on this subject. Front-panel ports, or "extension ports" (e.g. those 8-pin headers on a motherboard), are provided with +5V, but usually between 100 and 150 mA -- and that's MAXIMUM (vs. the usual 500mA). 100-150mA isn't enough power for a hard disk to spin up. And the power requirements for spin-up are even higher on drives of higher RPMs. The end result of a drive that doesn't get enough power is that it will try to spin up, fail, and repeat this process. This is the "chirping" noise you refer to. Please do not continue to do this -- this is very, very bad (rough) on a hard disk. The worst time for a drive to lose power or have electrical problems is during spin-up or spin-down. This situation is why you will find people making cables like these that consist of two USB connectors (one for data + power, and the other just for power) which are used for hard disks. Don't ask me which of those coloured connectors has the data pins wired up -- I have no idea. The rest of the world just uses USB enclosures that are AC-powered, which solves the problem completely (and now you understand why ). Likewise, another solution is to use a powered USB hub. As long as the hub is powered via an AC adapter it will provide 500mA (or higher for USB 3.0) to each individual port. The hub will function if not plugged in to the wall, but you will not get 500mA per port -- in that situation you'll get a maximum of whatever the port power is that you have the hub plugged into (e.g. if rear of motherboard and it's an 8-port USB hub, then all 8 ports will effectively share 500mA). There are also motherboards these days (usually Gigabyte) who offer "extreme power" support on their USB 3.0 connectors. This is a toggleable feature in the BIOS, and scares the living crap out of me. There's no specification/design/details of what this does, other than "provides lots of power for devices that need it". Sure, whatever. I wish people would provide technical details more often. This situation gets even worse with laptops. Most laptops provide 100-150mA to all their USB ports (sans USB 3.0 ones), unless the laptop is plugged in to the wall, in which case they tend to start supporting 500mA. It varies from model to model and brand to brand though -- you'll just have to trust me. Some models do provide 500mA when powered off of battery, and the end result is a user who eventually bitches/whines that their battery life goes to crap when using their webcam/whatever. sigh Regarding wiring: the length of the (external) USB cable matters greatly, in addition to the gauge of wire used. Likewise, with front panel ports, the length of the cable between the motherboard and the front panel matters, and wire gauge as well. Given that all of this is variable, it is literally impossible to guarantee. Finally, in case I didn't make it clear: this ""problem"" spans all motherboards. It's not a Supermicro issue, because the same issue exists everywhere. I've covered the variables, and with those details, politely refuse to cater to OCD (e.g. I will not start discussing what lengths and gauges of cable will provide the best results -- I opt out of this discussion for obvious reasons). The solution is to simply use an AC adapter with your enclosure, or buy one of those USB Y-cables and hope it provides enough (when used on either front-panel or backplane ports). The only for-sure way to guarantee spin-up is to use an AC adapter. -- Making life hard for others since 1977. I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-01-25 09:38:09 ·
Jan Janowski join:2000-06-18 Skokie, IL Reviews: ·Comcast ·AT&T Midwest	Thanks for the great -in depth answer!!! You provided Far More Clear, Concise, and In-Depth answers to this subject. That's the great thing about DSLR.... You get good information here.... The Motherboard Manual gave me a hint those ports wern't for a high power device.... And your caution about the USB3 high power mode makes much sense... I do have a 4 pin power connector on the USBV3 Card, but no software switch, so I'm thinking I'll relegate this USBV3 to be plug/unplug on power off only!! There have been MANY, MANY Different firmware versions for the Momentus XT drives... In an attempt to try and overcome the 'Chirping' and unwanted spindown drive effects that many have noticed with this drive. (I haven't seen it on the 4 drives I have, by the way -- With or without the AC adapter plugged in--with 2 XT 500Gb drives in the Dell Laptop)... But now since I found a location that causes it.... (and a work around, too, which is fine by me!).... I thought I'd try and see if I could get information about +5v Current draw vs. the multiple firmware versions.... (SD22, SD23, SD25, SD27, SD28 are the firmware versions I've personally seen)... From the Seagate Forums.... Nothing yet... So I posted here for more info... And I got it! ! As Mentioned, I'm waiting for a drive caddy so I can easily move it into the laptop for firmware updating..... Also waiting for a new XT 500Gb drive, to go into the USBV3 Enclosure, and the 320Gb used XT will move to a USBV2 Enclosure, both un-powered.... OH YES, One more thing!!! Thanks Very Much for the description of what the USB Y cables are for!!! I have one, and never knew it was for providing more power to the enclosure!!! I think I'll try that with my tests as well... Jan -- Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle
	to forum · permalink · 2012-01-25 14:51:05 ·
duffygc join:2012-01-26	reply to koitsu Hi, I was interested in your comments about current draw on the Momentus XT because I'm thinking about installing one of the new 750Gb versions into my 2008 Macbook (Macbook 4,1) to replace the original drive. Apple says my current 160Gb drive is 5400 rpm serial ATA: »support.apple.com/kb/SP5 Does anyone know whether there will be any power issues if I use this as a replacement main internal hard drive for my Macbook please (or any other show-stopper issues)? Thanks in advance
	to forum · permalink · 2012-01-26 07:14:50 ·
Jan Janowski join:2000-06-18 Skokie, IL Reviews: ·Comcast ·AT&T Midwest 1 edit	reply to Jan Janowski Here's the thread at the seagate site.... To post you need to register.... If you find out anything post here, please »forums.seagate.com/t5/Momentus-X···Momentus -- Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle
	to forum · permalink · 2012-01-26 09:05:21 ·
Jan Janowski join:2000-06-18 Skokie, IL Reviews: ·Comcast ·AT&T Midwest	Leaving in the USBV3 drive on bootup is not (Quite) an answer.... Here's what happens... It takes a while during desktop load to load driver for USBV3 card. During this time, there is an short time where The OS (W7-64) see's the USBV3 drive, but hasn't 'seen' it as a windows drive (yet), so It prompts that it needs to be formatted! Say "NO" and a few seconds later, a window pops up with the drive letter assigned, and it asks if you want to view the files.... This seems to be repeatable, and due to the time needed to load USBV3 drivers. and time it takes for Windows to see the drive, vs. time it takes to "see" the windows drive & contents... So... I seem to be going back to hot plug in.... I'm just posting what I'm seeing... -- Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle
	to forum · permalink · 2012-01-26 21:10:47 ·

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Re: I Think I know why Momentus XT drives "Chirp" some