| In China, Human Costs Are Built Into an iPad "The explosion ripped through Building A5 on a Friday evening last May, an eruption of fire and noise that twisted metal pipes as if they were discarded straws.
When workers in the cafeteria ran outside, they saw black smoke pouring from shattered windows. It came from the area where employees polished thousands of iPad cases a day.":
»www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/busin···.html?hp |
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steven sPremium
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 JohnInSJPremium
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said by daveinpoway:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-human-costs-for-workers-in-china.html?hp
"Customers want amazing new electronics delivered every year. "
They left out the word "cheap".
In other words, if you want to see who is responsible for this, just walk up to any mirror.
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 NezmoThe name's Bond. James Bond.Premium,MVM
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Coppell, TX | said by JohnInSJ:said by daveinpoway:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-human-costs-for-workers-in-china.html?hp
"Customers want amazing new electronics delivered every year. " They left out the word "cheap". In other words, if you want to see who is responsible for this, just walk up to any mirror. And that's a cheap response. You are correct that the market likes cheap products. You can hardly call Apple cheap though. Regardless, there is no excuse for human rights violations. This is a very complex and sad situation not restricted to Apple. I think just blaming it on the end consumer is poor.
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JohnInSJPremium
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| said by Nezmo:said by JohnInSJ:said by daveinpoway:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-human-costs-for-workers-in-china.html?hp
"Customers want amazing new electronics delivered every year. " They left out the word "cheap". In other words, if you want to see who is responsible for this, just walk up to any mirror. And that's a cheap response. You are correct that the market likes cheap products. You can hardly call Apple cheap though. Regardless, there is no excuse for human rights violations. This is a very complex and sad situation not restricted to Apple. I think just blaming it on the end consumer is poor. But corporations are just giving consumers what they DEMAND. Would you pay $2000 for your iPhone, built in America, with no pollution, by workers paid a living wage, working in safe and clean factories? Would you pay $10,000 for that big screen TV? $5,000 for that new laptop? You would? Really?
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| reply to daveinpoway
Interesting the article does not mention that Microsoft and a host of other companies use the same manufacturing company and that entire manufacturing area. |
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| said by howardfine:Interesting the article does not mention that Microsoft and a host of other companies use the same manufacturing company and that entire manufacturing area.
Yeah, but Apple is the biggest, the fanciest, and naturally they will take the most criticism of manufacturing their gadgets in China and exploiting the local population.
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said by howardfine:Interesting the article does not mention that Microsoft and a host of other companies use the same manufacturing company and that entire manufacturing area.
They do...
Apple is not the only electronics company doing business within a troubling supply system. Bleak working conditions have been documented at factories manufacturing products for Dell, Hewlett-Packard, I.B.M., Lenovo, Motorola, Nokia, Sony, Toshiba and others.
Current and former Apple executives, moreover, say the company has made significant strides in improving factories in recent years. Apple has a supplier code of conduct that details standards on labor issues, safety protections and other topics. The company has mounted a vigorous auditing campaign, and when abuses are discovered, Apple says, corrections are demanded.
And Apple’s annual supplier responsibility reports, in many cases, are the first to report abuses. This month, for the first time, the company released a list identifying many of its suppliers.
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aximrPremium
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| reply to JohnInSJ
said by JohnInSJ:But corporations are just giving consumers what they DEMAND. Would you pay $2000 for your iPhone, built in America, with no pollution, by workers paid a living wage, working in safe and clean factories? Would you pay $10,000 for that big screen TV? $5,000 for that new laptop? You would? Really?
Why would an iPhone made in the US have to cost 2,000 dollars? Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes all make cars here that are competitively priced. The average wage at Honda and Toyota is almost on par with the unionized workers at Ford, GM and Chrysler. Albeit their benefits are not quite on par with their unionized counterparts since they contribute to them.
Now picture you 12 or 14 year old son or daughter going to work to make a smartphone for someone else in another country, working 12 hour days.
There simply is no excuse for it and we as consumers are just as guilty buying these items and turning a blind eye to what we know is going on.
Shame on us all. |
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| reply to tmpchaos
said by tmpchaos:said by howardfine:Interesting the article does not mention that Microsoft and a host of other companies use the same manufacturing company and that entire manufacturing area.
They do... That's what I get for missing the last couple of pages. |
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| reply to aximr
said by aximr:Why would an iPhone made in the US have to cost 2,000 dollars? Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes all make cars here that are competitively priced. I'd bet if you looked at the wages of a car manufactured in Japan, it's closer to one manufactured here. Plus, shipping for a car is a lot higher than that of an iPad. But when you compare the labor cost of $7.50/hour minimum wage here and $1/hour in China, that's quite a bit, and you won't get the same assembly line workers for $7.50/hour here.
quote:
There simply is no excuse for it and we as consumers are just as guilty buying these items and turning a blind eye to what we know is going on.
Shame on us all.
We're not guilty of anything. Quit blaming the consumer. I'd bet you can walk into any store right now and almost no one is aware of this.
One thought, too, is who are we to dictate what goes on in China? I don't recall if it was in that article but, to them, maybe this is all "situation normal" to them. Are we trying to impose our values on their culture? What right do we have to do that? |
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 J E F FWhatta Ya Think About Dat?Premium
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Thing is, if Honda or GM could build cars over in China, including all parts, you could probably get an Accord for $7,000 and change. Probably less.
Problem is, it starts with one company shipping jobs to China because of cheap labour and little to no government oversight and/or regulations, everyone else has to follow. Why would I pay $1,200 for a VCR and a cheap one would cost $400? (speaking about our first VCR purchase way back in the 1980's) So, everyone follows suit, more and more of the components are outsourced there too.
Although the cost of living in China is much lower than here, their wage still doesn't go very far. Likely very few of those workers will ever own the products that they build.
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 bobrkYou kids get offa my lawnPremium
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| reply to JohnInSJ
said by JohnInSJ:But corporations are just giving consumers what they DEMAND. Would you pay $2000 for your iPhone, built in America, with no pollution, by workers paid a living wage, working in safe and clean factories? Would you pay $10,000 for that big screen TV? $5,000 for that new laptop? You would? Really?
I believe in that article that it states an iPhone would only cost $65 more if it were made in America. |
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| reply to JohnInSJ
said by JohnInSJ:But corporations are just giving consumers what they DEMAND. They created that demand in the first place. Shame on you for defending these practices. |
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 DrModemPremium
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USA
kudos:1 | reply to Nezmo
said by Nezmo:said by JohnInSJ:said by daveinpoway:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-human-costs-for-workers-in-china.html?hp
"Customers want amazing new electronics delivered every year. " They left out the word "cheap". In other words, if you want to see who is responsible for this, just walk up to any mirror. And that's a cheap response. You are correct that the market likes cheap products. You can hardly call Apple cheap though. Regardless, there is no excuse for human rights violations. This is a very complex and sad situation not restricted to Apple. I think just blaming it on the end consumer is poor. There was another NYT story just a few days ago on why Apple's manufacturing isn't coming back to the US, so I think someone has commissioned some Apple hit pieces.
However, this is the case with every manufacturer in China, and yes, the end consumer is one of the parties to blame. But only one. |
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| reply to steven s
said by steven s:They created that demand in the first place. Shame on you for defending these practices.
And another guy trying to blame us. You know what? I don't care. Nothing I can do about it. If it means I can get a cheaper product, good. Let them handle their own problems. It doesn't affect me.
When things were bad in our country, we did something about it. Maybe they will too. And then manufacturing will move elsewhere. Oh, well. I don't care. I have my own problems. |
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 macsierraBaby NewfoundlandPremium
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| reply to steven s
said by steven s:said by JohnInSJ:But corporations are just giving consumers what they DEMAND. They created that demand in the first place. Shame on you for defending these practices. Correction, freedom created "that demand" and it's the folks that are ignorant of what freedom actually is that are wanting to stifle it by attacking all businesses. Did you ever stop to think if there was no demand for products we would all be puppets of a ruling regime?
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DrModemPremium
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kudos:1 | reply to howardfine
It's too late to care anyway. If you wanted to eliminate all Chinese manufactured goods from your spending, you wouldn't be able to buy anything except for a few items.
The time to care was 25 years ago, but nobody cared then, so now we are where we are... |
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 FronkmanAn Apple a day keeps the doctor awayPremium
join:2003-06-23
Saint Louis, MO | reply to daveinpoway
an interesting factor illuminated by the NYT article is that electronics manufacturing in china is not JUST about cheap labor, it is also about supply chain.
as many have noted, japanese, german and swedish companies make cars in the US and pay about the same for labor as domestic companies. however, the US has a phenomenal supply chain for auto manufacturing. the auto industry cant exist in isolation, the companies that make wiring harnesses, seat belts, rearview mirrors etc are all HERE in the US.
the same thing exists in china. all of the capacitors, LEDs, disk platters, etc are also made in china. if you moved ipad production to the US, all of those other parts are still sourced in china. it isn't just the cost of labor that is increased but also the cost associated with the vastly increased logistically complexity.
if you are serious about getting electronics manufacturing back to the US, be serious about moving the entire supply chain back.
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DrModemPremium
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kudos:1 | reply to JohnInSJ
said by JohnInSJ:said by daveinpoway:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-human-costs-for-workers-in-china.html?hp
"Customers want amazing new electronics delivered every year. " They left out the word "cheap". In other words, if you want to see who is responsible for this, just walk up to any mirror. That's only one side of the coin. The corporations also want infinitely growing profits, and that is the overriding goal. The fact that consumers want cheaper products just helped them accomplish the switch easier. Decreasing manufacturing cost increases profit margins.
It's been said it costs $165 or something like that to manufacture an iPhone that is sold for $600. Compare that to say, a $265(Maybe it would be higher... $365? who knows) cost for the same device made in a place like the US. Multiply that $100 in savings over the tens of millions of iPhones sold, and it's easy to see the elephant in the room. |
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