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kovy
join:2009-03-26
kudos:4
4 edits | reply to zorxd
Re: [Internet] Bell Fibe 16 said by zorxd:last mile is the last part of the connection. It runs from the DSLAM to the modem and is 100% copper. The throttling doesn't have to be done on the last mile.
Then there is fiber from the DSLAM to my ISP. But this is no longer part of the last mile.
And again, I don't care if my internet comes from a string of cotton, I just want to get what I pay for.
Agreed, but that's not a reason to lie about the used technology. There is no shame to tell that you sell a 25/7 DSL internet. Some people might be arround 2.5-3 km and have a noisy line. In this case their profile can be lowered to 3Mbps to insure stability. With ADSL2+ they could get higher speed with the same stability. As I told you, I am 300m from the remote and the max upload speed I can get is 1000 kbps. So I don't get full speed (which would be 1.4 Mbps). The technician also said that the max download capacity of my line is about 22 Mbps, but to be safe I would need to be limited at around 20 Mbps. Not everyone gets the full 24 Mbps as you can see. DSL just seems very buggy at least on Bell's network. Half of my friends with DSL moved to cable for stability alone. I went the hard way and received a dozen technician visit or so over the last 2 years, but I think my line is finally good (only 5 disconnections since the last 24h) Yes, without VDSL2 I couldn't get 25/7mbps, but without FTTN I couldn't get it either since I'm 2.3km from the CO. WIthout FTTN I wouldn't get 16mbps either, probably get max 10mbps. So for me, thank god for FTTN... hence why I said this is my distance problem. And this is even more important for people at 5 or 6km from CO.
Bell could have more CO and no remotes. Then you wouldn't call it FTTN and it would have the same effect. On cable people don't know and don't care about their distance to the fiber. They don't call it FTTN. The throttling is done on the last mile, or else you wouldn't see all these complaints from wholesales customer. Last mile does not start at the SLAM, that is only part of the last mile. Physical last mile includes the connection CO to the remote. Not sure if AGAS link also is part of last mile, since bell is responsible for it.
If people have noisy lines, they will also have noisy lines with ADSL2+, hence cannot upgrade the line. ADSL2+ is not going to eliminate problems with the lines...
You don't have full speed because it's not a profile for ADSL2+ in Bell Canada, max profile is 1088kbps and it's limited to the type of card used by Bell and the annex.
I have 0 problems with DSL, I never had a tech repair anything in the last 2 years of service with 25/7mbps. Each technologie as it's strong et low points. For sure DSL struggles more since lots of the networks still needs to be upgrade and some area have really poor conditions.
Pretty much a useless example... since you can't build multiple CO, you need remote satellite. At this point, people should live in CO... if were going to be ridiculous.
When you ask people what internet they have, they name the company, they don't name the technologie. | |
zorxd
join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC Reviews:
 ·voip.ms
 ·Acanac
| The AGAS can ben hundred of kilometers from the house. It's clearly not part of the last mile. As for throttling, it can reach wholesale customers even if it's not on the last mile.
There is a common myth here that wholesalers use only the last mile from Bell. This is completely false (except for colba net, which isn't throttled).
Last mile is usually defined as the "final leg". The final leg is the copper pair. The fiber is shared and beyond a kind of switch so it isn't part of the last mile.
Last mile can be either:
Cable
DSL
wireless (wimax, cellular, satellite, etc.)
optical fiber
etc.
»searchnetworking.techtarget.com/···chnology
And yes you can build multiple CO. Bell has a lot of them. | |
kovy
join:2009-03-26
kudos:4 | said by zorxd:The AGAS can ben hundred of kilometers from the house. It's clearly not part of the last mile. As for throttling, it can reach wholesale customers even if it's not on the last mile.
There is a common myth here that wholesalers use only the last mile from Bell. This is completely false (except for colba net, which isn't throttled).
Last mile is usually defined as the "final leg". The final leg is the copper pair. The fiber is shared and beyond a kind of switch so it isn't part of the last mile.
Last mile can be either:
Cable
DSL
wireless (wimax, cellular, satellite, etc.)
optical fiber
etc.
»searchnetworking.techtarget.com/···chnology
And yes you can build multiple CO. Bell has a lot of them.
Throttling is done on the last mile... Anybody who has their own equipment at the CO will not be throttled, Colba, primus, yak...you name it.
Last mile is not only copper, it's also Fiber... has you just said.
FTTN requires a connection from the CO with fiber and copper to the JWI... how do you think people with phone service get a dial tone with FTTN?
Bell doesn't have a lot of CO, it has CO at strategic points and multiple remotes to cover the area. Building more CO wouldn't be smart... hence why they decided to build remotes. | |
zorxd
join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Acanac
| If throttling was done on the last mile, colba would be throttled since they use Bell's last mile.
Last mile can be fiber... as in FTTH.
People gets phone from the CO, and DSL from the remote. So the last mile for DSL is shorter. I guess the phone could also pass through the fiber and then they could remove the copper between the remote and the CO.
Remotes are nothing more than mini-COs. They share the same function in case of DSL. This is where the DSLAM is and it's on fiber from that point. | |
kovy
join:2009-03-26
kudos:4 | said by zorxd:If throttling was done on the last mile, colba would be throttled since they use Bell's last mile.
Last mile can be fiber... as in FTTH.
People gets phone from the CO, and DSL from the remote. So the last mile for DSL is shorter. I guess the phone could also pass through the fiber and then they could remove the copper between the remote and the CO.
Remotes are nothing more than mini-COs. They share the same function in case of DSL. This is where the DSLAM is and it's on fiber from that point.
Colba uses part of Bell last mile... but they bypass the throttling since they have control to the SLAM part... for some reason, you seem to the think the last mile is the wire you see on the poles.
People can get phone from CO and DSL from CO as well.
People can get phone from CO and DSL from remote.
People can get phone from remote and dsl from remote.
FTTN product get phone from CO and DSL from remote.
There's plenty of different types of remotes... some are considered mini CO , while other are big junction box with a SLAM (which is FTTN).
Either way, this discussion is about FTTN being more fiber then copper. When a CSR say's it's 100% fiber, and the customer is not getting FTTH, then obviously the term they use is wrong. But FTTN is still a important factor in todays DSL, to say it's the irrelevant and the same thing as a connection of pure copper, it's also wrong. | |
zorxd
join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Acanac
| When you get Fibe 16 ADSL2+ you don't know if you are connected to the CO or a remote. And you don't care. As long as there is a ADSL2+ DLSAM at the other end.
Colba uses all of Bell's last mile. The metropolitan distribution fiber network is not the last mile. It doesn't matter if it is on a pole or buried by the way.
The CSR doesn't say it's 100% fiber. He says it's fiber, period. I ask again if it's DSL or fiber and he answer fiber. It's just misleading the customers.
Just call Videotron and ask them if they sell internet on fiber or cable. They will answer cable, no ambiguity there, as it should be, even if they obviously use fiber for part of their distribution network (which I don't consider part of the last mile but you do). The same goes for all ISPs around the world except Bell (and maybe Telus with their "optik" crap). No wonder why we call them Bellus.
FTTN product get phone from CO and DSL from remote.
I am pretty sure it would still meet the (vague) FTTN definition even if you get a VoIP phone and no POTS from the CO. | |
kovy
join:2009-03-26
kudos:4 | said by zorxd:When you get Fibe 16 ADSL2+ you don't know if you are connected to the CO or a remote. And you don't care. As long as there is a ADSL2+ DLSAM at the other end.
Colba uses all of Bell's last mile. The metropolitan distribution fiber network is not the last mile. It doesn't matter if it is on a pole or buried by the way.
The CSR doesn't say it's 100% fiber. He says it's fiber, period. I ask again if it's DSL or fiber and he answer fiber. It's just misleading the customers.
Just call Videotron and ask them if they sell internet on fiber or cable. They will answer cable, no ambiguity there, as it should be, even if they obviously use fiber for part of their distribution network (which I don't consider part of the last mile but you do). The same goes for all ISPs around the world except Bell (and maybe Telus with their "optik" crap). No wonder why we call them Bellus.
FTTN product get phone from CO and DSL from remote.
Says who? I am pretty sure it would still meet the (vague) FTTN definition even if you get a VoIP phone and no POTS from the CO. Someone could order fibe 16 and get it by FTTH, like you said so well, you don't care as long as you get what you pay for.
Colba uses some part of Bell last mile, since they are using there own last mile. Colba has it's own equipment at the central office, they own their own SLAM. Don't start contradicting yourself, by what you said, the last mile starts at the DSLAM.
Well if you ask the CSR if it's fiber or DSL, and he says it's fiber... then I'm guessing he's saying it's a 100% fiber? Like I said, if it's not what the customer is getting then it's the wrong term... I already agreed to that, why are you pursuing this?
I bet if Videotron did have FTTH, they'd call it cable... just so they could stick behind their "le pouvoir infinit du cable".
I don't know why you don't consider it part of the last mile, your last mile definition is very vague... If it wasn't for FTTN, some people would have some very crappy internet (I'm talking about people with distance issues).
Says who? Says me... I work for Bell, I should know. Even with FTTN, people get POTS from CO. | |
zorxd
join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Acanac
| What I meant is that it is not a requirement of FTTN to have a phone service from the CO.
Someone could order fibe 16 and get it by FTTH, like you said so well, you don't care as long as you get what you pay for.
My last mile definition is pretty clear (unlike yours). It's the last leg of the network, the one that reaches the customer. The DSLAM is the separator between the last mile and the distribution network, in case of a DSL network.
I don't see any definition of "last mile" that would include the fiber between the remote and the CO but NOT the fiber between the CO and the next hop. | |
kovy
join:2009-03-26
kudos:4 | said by zorxd:What I meant is that it is not a requirement of FTTN to have a phone service from the CO.
Someone could order fibe 16 and get it by FTTH, like you said so well, you don't care as long as you get what you pay for.
Well one could care because his DSL modem won't work. Also because the technician will have to pass new cables in the house. There are a lot of things to consider when you switch your internet technology. Changing from DSL to cable or from DSL to fiber means pretty much the same: new cabling, new modem, etc. My last mile definition is pretty clear (unlike yours). It's the last leg of the network, the one that reaches the customer. The DSLAM is the separator between the last mile and the distribution network, in case of a DSL network. I don't see any definition of "last mile" that would include the fiber between the remote and the CO but NOT the fiber between the CO and the next hop. Who cares if his DSL modem won't work, bell will equip the customer with all that. I don't see your point here... with cabling and all that.
Is the DSLAM part of last mile or before (this is were you're unclear). Don't give me it's "the seperator"...
Both FTTN and FTTH have the same goals... Even thought they are similar, they also have lots of differences. | |
 GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:16 | reply to Dirrty
Bell does deploy FTTH for some Fibe customers, and obviously that gets hooked up to your copper phone line inside the home to deliver service to your telephones, and ethernet to deliver service to your computers. Basically, fibre enters your home, goes into an ONT (Optical Network Terminal), and you plug your telephone and ethernet and coax into the ONT to get telephone and internet and television service. This is the same way FiOS is delivered.
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org | |
zorxd
join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Acanac
| reply to kovy
When talking about "last mile", it's the lenght of the cable that count. A punctual piece of equipment such as DSLAM or router doesn't count.
It's like asking if a DSL modem is ethernet or DSL. Well, it's both. It makes the bridge between ethernet on one side and DSL (or ATM whatever) on the other side.
The DSLAM is the bridge between the DSL copper and the fiber. Last mile is the DSL copper.
The point with cabling is that not everyone wants to rewire the house.
FTTN and FTTH do share the same goals yes... providing the internet. In that sense 56k share the goal too.
And yes, Bell FTTH is the same as Verizon FiOS.
Bell ADSL2+ is the same as ADSL2+ in the rest of the world, even if no one else makes the distinction between FTTN and so-called "legacy DSL". | |
kovy
join:2009-03-26
kudos:4 | said by zorxd:When talking about "last mile", it's the lenght of the cable that count. A punctual piece of equipment such as DSLAM or router doesn't count.
It's like asking if a DSL modem is ethernet or DSL. Well, it's both. It makes the bridge between ethernet on one side and DSL (or ATM whatever) on the other side.
The DSLAM is the bridge between the DSL copper and the fiber. Last mile is the DSL copper.
The point with cabling is that not everyone wants to rewire the house.
FTTN and FTTH do share the same goals yes... providing the internet. In that sense 56k share the goal too.
And yes, Bell FTTH is the same as Verizon FiOS.
Bell ADSL2+ is the same as ADSL2+ in the rest of the world, even if no one else makes the distinction between FTTN and so-called "legacy DSL".
Rewire the house? It all depends on the setup. When Videotron install the phone service... do they rewire the complete house? Your very much generalising here. If they were to install it in my home... they would need to bring the fiber inside the home, install the ONT and PSU and change 1 wire...
And by that definition, of your last mile... since the modem is also a bridge, like you say, then I guess the last mile is after the modem.
FTTN and FTTH share the same goal, as in reach customer that are further away, providing them with faster speed... things such as those. FTTN even helps provide their IPTV network to more people. FTTN was meant to reach people further away. FTTH has those goals aswell. FTTN uses VDSL2 which help for the speed part, but both go hand in hand for maximum potential.
You know who makes the distinction, technicians.
It's obviously a publicity stunt by Bell, but guess what... it works, so props to them for that. | |
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