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BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA to Edrick

Premium Member

to Edrick

Re: Analog Voice Gateways

No one uses them. No one wants them. If there's not good cell service, then that's a legitimate issue that needs to be dealt with, either through repeaters or partnering with AT&T and Verizon to come in and install sites to cover deep inside buildings.

Edrick
I aspire to tell the story of a lifetime
Premium Member
join:2004-09-11
San Diego, CA

1 recommendation

Edrick

Premium Member

said by BiggA:

No one uses them. No one wants them. If there's not good cell service, then that's a legitimate issue that needs to be dealt with, either through repeaters or partnering with AT&T and Verizon to come in and install sites to cover deep inside buildings.

Well with an attitude like that I don't know how well you'll do in the industry. Cause lots of people use them and lots of people still want them. This installation posted by the OP is a prime example, if no one used them or wanted them why would the university spend all the money?

Cell service is not a valid replacement, wether it be local, state or government requirements or just the institutions requirement. A cell network goes down, especially during emergencies.

What practical experiences do you have where you can make a statement that no one uses it no one wants it other than your personal experience at your campus?

Just like Antenna you might say who the hell would use antenna for TV, lots of people still do.
kc8jwt
join:2005-10-27
Belpre, OH

kc8jwt to BiggA

Member

to BiggA
It makes sense to run the cable for everything when your running the cable. It's pain all the way around when you have to go back in and run new cable later. It's cheaper to run all of the cable at once than to run it later.

We're finding that out now as we had network drops out of spec when AT&T wired our building 12 years ago. I had to have fiber run and re-deploy a switch to take care of these issues. Just finished lighting it up yesterday.

Truthfully, I would much rather have a phone in the room. It's a safety issue more than anything. And with VoIP some of the endpoints can be moved from room to room and the extension would follow. You can tie the extension to the MAC address to the handset.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

kc8jwt, That's absolutely true. Running more cable is always better. That doesn't mean that you need to actually activate it all right off the bat.

No one wants POTS lines that no one uses. Safety? In higher ed, no one even realized the phones are there, or knows if they work or not. Which am I going to use in an emergency? Some wall phone that might not work and no one has used in years, or an AT&T or Verizon smartphone that is a known quantity? I'm picking up my iPhone, thank you very much. I know the call will go through, unlike some crumbly POTS system. Plus, if there are more than a couple of people in a room, there's the built in redundancy of having two carriers, in case one just happened to be suffering an outage that day. That, and if the electricity goes out, who knows what's working and what's not, it's very random as to what's on generators or batteries, but you know AT&T and Verizon have generators that are going to keep things juiced up.

Edrick
I aspire to tell the story of a lifetime
Premium Member
join:2004-09-11
San Diego, CA

1 recommendation

Edrick

Premium Member

said by BiggA:

kc8jwt, That's absolutely true. Running more cable is always better. That doesn't mean that you need to actually activate it all right off the bat.

No one wants POTS lines that no one uses. Safety? In higher ed, no one even realized the phones are there, or knows if they work or not. Which am I going to use in an emergency? Some wall phone that might not work and no one has used in years, or an AT&T or Verizon smartphone that is a known quantity? I'm picking up my iPhone, thank you very much. I know the call will go through, unlike some crumbly POTS system. Plus, if there are more than a couple of people in a room, there's the built in redundancy of having two carriers, in case one just happened to be suffering an outage that day. That, and if the electricity goes out, who knows what's working and what's not, it's very random as to what's on generators or batteries, but you know AT&T and Verizon have generators that are going to keep things juiced up.

Without looking what is your campus safety phone number? I've never had an issue with a wired phone system inside a building working or not. Anywho this discussion seems to be going in a circle, everyones got their own opinion I'm just saying when a client asks you to install a system they're going to look at you funny when you go. Shit man what you taking about use that cell phone you don't need no stinkin phone system.

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium Member
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

DarkLogix

Premium Member

I'd go with over wire the place for easy expantion

then put phones in all the classrooms as yes if the place has a safty dept then it'll come up if they're worth hiring.

I'd also add wireless AP's and have some wifi cisco phones available

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD
ARRIS SB8200
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Juniper SRX320

sk1939 to BiggA

Premium Member

to BiggA
Universities require staff members to memorize important numbers for things like Plant Ops and Security, it's part of annual Prof. Development training. Additionally, many of these numbers are listed in the speed dial of the POTS phones.

POTS lines in a well maintained and professional setting will always work. Cellphones are spotty at best, even the iPhone. Installing cell phone repeaters is a costly, and frankly ridiculous proposal since cellphone service is the first to go in an emergency, and rather than dialing an extension (4154), you have to dial a whole number (1-815-518-4154).
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

That's stupid, because you can just google all the numbers, or have students in the class google them. The numbers for the computer people are on the desktop background I think. I've seen professors call them a few times, always on personal cell phones.

Cell phone repeaters are needed for normal cellular use, not just emergencies.

I have no clue what any of the campus numbers are. If there's a real emergency, we have 911, and that would get routed back to our police. If not, I can google any number that I would ever need in under 30 seconds, and click on it on my iPhone.

Cell phones are last to go, as they have some of their own backup power. Anything wire based is really hit or miss.
TheMG
Premium Member
join:2007-09-04
Canada
MikroTik RB450G
Cisco DPC3008
Cisco SPA112

TheMG to BiggA

Premium Member

to BiggA
said by BiggA:

I have no clue what any of the campus numbers are. If there's a real emergency, we have 911, and that would get routed back to our police. If not, I can google any number that I would ever need in under 30 seconds, and click on it on my iPhone.

You call 911 directly, they have to figure out where on campus you are located, which might not always be so obvious.

If you use the landline phone and call security, they will usually be able to provide assistance until the emergency services arrive, as well as guide the emergency services to the location of the incident.

So which is better?

alphapointe
Don't Touch Me
MVM
join:2002-02-10
Columbia, MO

alphapointe to BiggA

MVM

to BiggA
said by BiggA:

Cell phones are last to go, as they have some of their own backup power. Anything wire based is really hit or miss.

WOW! You obviously don't work in the real world. Have you even seen an "emergency"? It doesn't take long to overload and crash a cell site. I'll take wireline over radio any day of the week, and I'm a ham radio operator. It takes a LOT to crash a properly maintained POTS system. At the hospital where I work, we've lost the PRI's for our PBX exactly once in the 10 years I've worked there, and that was for about 20 minutes... the cellular sites that serve the hospital crash or are overloaded on a regular basis. I'd wager most (crybaby Iphone loving) college students don't even know HOW to use a POTS phone...

And this topic has gotten so far off topic... I, for one, would love to see the telco side of this gear (which is quite sexy, I might add... I want one of those weatherproof cabinets!)
TheMG
Premium Member
join:2007-09-04
Canada
MikroTik RB450G
Cisco DPC3008
Cisco SPA112

1 edit

TheMG to BiggA

Premium Member

to BiggA
said by BiggA:

Cell phones are last to go, as they have some of their own backup power.

Many cell sites only have battery backup, no generator. After a few hours, they go dead.

In fact, I'd be ready to bet that most cell sites in an urban area do not have generators. I've seen generators installed mostly in remote areas where prolonged power outages are more likely.

Oh, and there's also the fact that landlines are considered an essential utility. Cell phones on the other hand, are not. In a big emergency or natural disaster, priority will likely be given to getting the landlines back up and running, before getting cell sites back up.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA to TheMG

Premium Member

to TheMG
I could tell them where I am. By building name. Same as by landline.

The bigger cell sites are diesel backed-up. We have two cell sites, the bigger and taller one is definitely diesel backed up. Most of the sites in CT are diesel backed up, for AT&T and Verizon. T-Mobile and Sprint don't seem to care, and they don't build shelters for the gear, just little outdoor cabinets.

I'm pretty sure the cell carriers put a lot of effort into keeping their networks running. Well, AT&T and Verizon that is.
Hahausuck
Premium Member
join:2003-12-14

Hahausuck

Premium Member

Cabinet based sites can be batteried and genset powered too.

But if you are building a cabinet-only site chances are you are a cheap ass, not willing to drop in an LP or diesel fed genset.

So therefore we go back to your statement.