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tmpchaos
Requiescat in pace
Co-Lead Mod
join:2000-04-28
Hoboken, NJ
reply to koolkid1563

Re: [Bresnan] DOCSIS 3.0 + Channel Bonding in Butte

It's probably worth trying- they might at least be able to contact someone on that side.


Ronpaul3

@vzbi.com
reply to koolkid1563
You guys have to realize that whoever you talk to at the front line probably doesn't even have an idea of what a millisecond is. You complaining about 20-30ms "extra" means nothing to them. They are probably "blatantly denying" the issue because they have no idea wtf you are talking about.

I can also guarantee you the NOC knows about any latency/node saturation issues. They very well could be constrained by a budget or management delays.

If you really hate the service that much, cancel it. Nobody is stopping you. I just can't stand people that think they should have a personal concierge at the cable company or anywhere else for that matter, and still keep the service.

And no I don't work for them.


koolkid1563
Premium,MVM
join:2005-11-06
Powell, WY
Like others in underserved CenturyLink areas, my alternative is 1.5Mb/s ADSL which even Bresnan's worst peak speeds are better than that...

20-30ms extra? Try doubling (input latency to that hop x2 = output latency from that hop). That is far more noticeable to the front lines than a 20-30ms gain. This just happens to be on the exiting hop from their network so the latency shows up on an external peer. That is why they are blatantly denying the issue, not because of a '20ms' gain...Saying they have 0 control even if it is the next hop outside their network is not true at all. ISPs have escalation power to their immediate upstream peers. Bresnan/OOL just doesn't want to do anything but put unnecessary blame on all providers other than themselves. I doubt (and know for fact) that Level3, ATT, and CogentCo are not having normal latencies of 200ms through their IP transit network, but if you listen to Bresnan, they all are except for themselves and there is nothing Bresnan can do about it...


christcorp
Premium
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY
kudos:1
reply to Ronpaul3
said by Ronpaul3 :

You guys have to realize that whoever you talk to at the front line probably doesn't even have an idea of what a millisecond is. You complaining about 20-30ms "extra" means nothing to them. They are probably "blatantly denying" the issue because they have no idea wtf you are talking about.

I can also guarantee you the NOC knows about any latency/node saturation issues. They very well could be constrained by a budget or management delays.

If you really hate the service that much, cancel it. Nobody is stopping you. I just can't stand people that think they should have a personal concierge at the cable company or anywhere else for that matter, and still keep the service.

And no I don't work for them.

I understand what you're saying. There are a lot of folks who believe that their $30-$60 DSL or Cable broadband connection should give them the type of quality, latency, reliability, etc... that a $400-$1200 per month T1 or DS3 offers. That is very unrealistic. But I think what most people would be satisfied with is consistency. If you're getting 30-40ms hops across the internet to a specific site; someone else shouldn't be getting portions of their connection at 200-250ms additional.

Many people, especially the gamers, move from DSL to cable not because of the bandwidth. It's because DSL uses interleaving and has an average latency around 90-95ms. And some gamers don't really understand how a game server compensates for the many different players. So they want a faster connection thinking the extra 1/10th of a second is going to help them. That's ok if that's what they think.

But there is a legitimate gripe when it comes to jitter. (The Variance in Latency). Whether you're a gamer, have Voip phone service, working at home and sending files, etc... Jitter can cause a lot of issues. Systems are designed to buffer, but it's difficult to buffer efficiently when parts of the nework are running at 50ms, while other parts are running at 250ms. If the latency averaged 120ms ALL THE TIME, I'd tell people "TOO BAD". But having the latency vary so much is a problem and needs to be addressed.

frdrizzt

join:2008-05-03
Ronkonkoma, NY
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to koolkid1563
I don't really know how the Optimum West escalations are handled by phone support; if it is done in the same exact fashion as the East side or not. Any latency with a 3rd party peer is obviously not something that a regular support rep deals with, but there should be some sort of escalation process. On the East support side, they will escalate the issue (with the traceroutes you provide & any relevant info) to a team that will validate & then further escalate any issue to be dealt with. I know they have a lot of the same departments as CV East, but I have no idea how their phone support handles issues like this. Have they escalated anything on this, or simply told you "there's nothing I can do" / "your levels look fine"?


Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
reply to koolkid1563
Click for full size
Well, we finally have DOCSIS 3.0 here in Billings.


livinfree

@bresnan.net
Would support have any idea what I was talking about if I asked them if we had DOCSIS 3.0 here in Ft. Morgan? I'm using the SB5160 and don't want to purchase a new modem unless it's available.

frdrizzt

join:2008-05-03
Ronkonkoma, NY
kudos:3
It can't hurt to ask. Does Optimum West supply Docsis 3 modems currently (though I know it may be hard to get one without a clear speed issue)


Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
Not sure. I ended up buying mine (Zoom 5341J) from Best Buy due to them giving me a crappy old SB5100. You should have seen the look on my face when the tech installed it. "You're giving me... that??"

Heck, the Arris we had before performed a heck of alot better than that POS.


livinfree

@bresnan.net
reply to koolkid1563
Click for full size
Am getting this result or worse tonight. Page loads were faster on 1.5 dsl I had 7 years ago. Opted for live chat asking if they'd been having network issues. They gave me the link for that speedtest, told them the result and 5min later Was told a tech would be sent out for possible signal issues...

_____________________________________________
Downstream Value
Frequency 561000000 Hz
Signal To Noise Ratio 36.4 dB
Power Level 5.6 dBmV
The Downstream Power Level reading is a snapshot taken at the time this page was requested. Please Reload/Refresh this Page for a new reading

Upstream Value
Channel ID 2
Frequency 30600000 Hz
Power 45.2 dBmV
_______________________________________________________

From what I've read those are generally acceptable, but maybe not...


Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
said by livinfree :

From what I've read those are generally acceptable, but maybe not...

How are you connected and where are you from?


livinfree

@myvzw.com
I'm in fort Morgan. Was connected via wireless N(144Mbps connection speed, netgear wndr3400) . Got the same results with a Laptop hooked up directly to the modem(SB51xx). As usual it got better around 11pm. But still terrible considering I usually test at 22mbps or higher after 11pm and was only getting 8mbps. I'm really confused about the signal issues customer service stated I might have since everything I've read so far shows I'm withing spec


SHoTTa35

@optonline.net
You basically just have congestion issues.


koolkid1563
Premium,MVM
join:2005-11-06
Powell, WY
reply to livinfree
I'm still seeing nightly congestion leaving to basically all third-party transit providers. Latency is, well, not perfect but not entirely bad either through Bresnans network then doubles on the hand off to almost all (by that I mean all but one or two) transit providers. Used to be my local node now the bottleneck has been moved further upstream all the way to the hand off.

I will post some smoke pings tonight when the nightly latency jump and speed dive takes place. I am monitoring a bunch of IPs around the world now from both Powell and here so we have a little better idea which paths are congested and which aren't.

Your issue does appear to be a local congestion issue, though.


koolkid1563
Premium,MVM
join:2005-11-06
Powell, WY

1 edit
Click for full size
Smokeping North America



I found this to be most interesting...I certainly don't see 125% of the advertised 30Mb/s that I should be getting nor do I see 13ms out to the internet...Hell, I don't even see 13ms inside Bresnan's network...

said by »west.optimum.com/legal/optimums_···tatement :

The table below shows Optimum Online's advertised maximum downstream and upstream speeds as compared to the average actual downstream and upstream speeds as of December 2011, for the Optimum Online level of service and as of September 2011 for the Optimum Online Boost level of service (the last months for which statistically significant data is available for public disclosure), using testing consistent with that conducted under the supervision of the FCC:

Optimum Online Boost

24 Hour Mon-Sun:
Downstream: Advertised Maximum: 30 Mbps
Average Actual: 125.42% (Percent of Advertised Maximum)

Upstream: Advertised Maximum: 5 Mbps
Average Actual: 131.32% (Percent of Advertised Maximum)

7pm-11pm Mon-Fri:
Downstream: Advertised Maximum: 30 Mbps
Average Actual: 112.18% (Percent of Advertised Maximum)

Upstream: Advertised Maximum: 5 Mbps
Average Actual: 130.21% (Percent of Advertised Maximum)

The table below shows Optimum Online's average latency during the peak period of 7pm to 11pm Monday through Friday as of December 2011, for the Optimum Online level of service and as of September 2011 for the Optimum Online Boost level of service (the last months for which statistically significant data is available for public disclosure), using testing consistent with that conducted under the supervision of the FCC:

Optimum Online: 19.42 milliseconds
Optimum Online Boost: 13.88 milliseconds

Kind of makes me want to get one of those FCC speedtest routers to 'contribute' to these WONDERFUL results!

EDIT: Just signed up to be on the list for one of those routers - link to follow for those interested: »www.testmyisp.com/index.php

cablewizzard

join:2009-06-14
Hicksville, NY
kudos:1

1 edit
said by koolkid1563:

Kind of makes me want to get one of those FCC speedtest routers to 'contribute' to these WONDERFUL results!

And *THAT* (self-selected test participants) is exactly why the FCC study produces statistically invalid results that do NOT reflect the average customer experience. All it takes is a few dozen disgruntled customers with unresolved network issues to sign up for SamKnows to "stick it to their ISP" - and voila: strongly skewed numbers that are super-top-heavy in the direction of the worst 2% of the customer base: OOL had 162 SamKnows testers in last year's data, what if 30 disgruntled customers sign up, eh?

I am sorry you live in the bandwidth-backwaters of the great West, where backbone bandwidth continues to be provided by the bit-mile counting and -mising monopoly incumbents (AT&T, Qwest/CL, Verizon), where a T3 line down to Denver or over to Seattle costs roughly the same of what a 1Gbps pipe costs from say: NYC down to Virginia.

These sort of price differences of an order of magnitude ultimately DO get passed on to endusers - and if they're not, you can be sure you're not getting the same thing, as that defies all business logic: "up to 30Mbps" out in the West is, and for a long time to come, will not be the same as "up to 30Mbps" in the East, as that is not economically viable: there's no such thing as "I should be getting 125% of 30Mbps": feeling over-entitled much?

If you don't like your "bandwidth dilemma", go vote for a less corrupt government that doesn't let the monopolies win each and every time: no mandatory POTS line sharing like in other countries (France and Korea come to mind)? Supreme Court decided big-Cable doesn't have to share their infrastructure, ever, because, it's soooo private, while using/stealing public resources courtesy of the right-of-way? Anti-municipal-fiber bills written by corrupt telcos and big-Cable astroturfed straight through your corrupt state representatives that you continue to re-elect?

There's a reason why the US of A is 30th-something-country in the world for Internet service, and it's hard to miss the reasons when they stare you in the face at every opportunity: it's a tidal wave of systemic corruption all the way from backbones to the very last house on the block.


koolkid1563
Premium,MVM
join:2005-11-06
Powell, WY

2 edits
Pretty much everyone I have talked to (and evident here) that isn't in Billings gets shoddy service from Bresnan/OOL West. So if there were 30 of us that are in areas other than Billings, would that not also point out a potential issue with Bresnan? Is that not the point of these trials? What if 30 customers in Billings got these routers, wouldn't that say that Bresnan service is meeting the 'up to' service level when in reality everywhere but Billings doesn't get good service? The skewing can go both ways to fill an agenda...

And for the record - the blue line on my smokeping is done from a muni-FTTH network in Powell, WY at my folks' place (also a market Bresnan is in) while the red line is from here in Butte, MT. They get consistent latency and speeds while I do not.


tmpchaos
Requiescat in pace
Co-Lead Mod
join:2000-04-28
Hoboken, NJ
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
I signed up early (Oct 2010) because I was having issues. It was very useful in getting service (and getting my 5100 upgraded to a 6120). I went from speeds that were all over to a consistent 20+ (on regular tier).
--
***ATMFAQ***DIFAQ***Kitchen Sink***


Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

1 edit
reply to cablewizzard
said by cablewizzard:

I am sorry you live in the bandwidth-backwaters of the great West, where backbone bandwidth continues to be provided by the bit-mile counting and -mising monopoly incumbents (AT&T, Qwest/CL, Verizon), where a T3 line down to Denver or over to Seattle costs roughly the same of what a 1Gbps pipe costs from say: NYC down to Virginia.

Wow. Spoken like a true big city person. I've had these arguments several times with others on multiple forums. Most people are amazed we have cars and electrical power. I'm getting really sick of this crap.
said by cablewizzard:

These sort of price differences of an order of magnitude ultimately DO get passed on to endusers - and if they're not, you can be sure you're not getting the same thing, as that defies all business logic: "up to 30Mbps" out in the West is, and for a long time to come, will not be the same as "up to 30Mbps" in the East, as that is not economically viable: there's no such thing as "I should be getting 125% of 30Mbps": feeling over-entitled much?

What? Could you please rephrase the question before I scratch my head raw and suffer from an embolism?

I think you need to do a little more research into our backbone infrastructure before I end up with a freakin' migraine.
--
Bresnan 30M/5M | CenturyLink 5M/896K
MyWS[PnmIIX3@3.3G,8G RAM,500G+1.5T+2T HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2G,2G RAM,120G HDD,Win7]
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