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Damagran

@wideopenwest.com

Packet loss problems (Columbus OH area)

My WoW Cable connection use to run rock solid. Ping tests would always come back with absolute 0 packet loss. However lately I have been noticing a change and it has been becoming more evident when gaming.

I have tried multiple variations (straight to WoW Modem (Arris TM602G), through the router, from a completely separate desktop in my house) and am always having packet loss problems now. Speeds are always good, just seems to be packet problems.

I have checked my modems status page and everything there looks to be in order:
DOWN: 4dBmV SNR 39dB
UP: 37dBmV

Some WinMtr I have run:

|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| 192.168.1.1 - 0 | 1095 | 1095 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 219 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 10.35.25.78 - 2 | 1043 | 1030 | 8 | 34 | 997 | 16 |
| 10.35.24.1 - 3 | 1003 | 980 | 8 | 37 | 994 | 17 |
| 10.35.11.13 - 3 | 983 | 955 | 8 | 31 | 996 | 17 |
| 216.156.103.29.ptr.us.xo.net - 3 | 1000 | 976 | 9 | 43 | 997 | 61 |
| ae1d0.mcr2.columbus-oh.us.xo.net - 3 | 995 | 970 | 9 | 34 | 996 | 18 |
| vb1121.rar3.chicago-il.us.xo.net - 2 | 1031 | 1015 | 19 | 53 | 1014 | 28 |
| 207.88.14.194.ptr.us.xo.net - 30 | 505 | 357 | 0 | 43 | 1001 | 27 |
| xe-0.equinix.chcgil09.us.bb.gin.ntt.net - 3 | 1011 | 990 | 19 | 57 | 1023 | 22 |
| ae-1.r05.chcgil09.us.bb.gin.ntt.net - 3 | 1007 | 985 | 19 | 50 | 1007 | 29 |
|a23-13-108-137.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com - 2 | 1032 | 1016 | 19 | 49 | 1003 | 25 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|

And another:

|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| 192.168.1.1 - 0 | 737 | 737 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 148 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 10.35.25.78 - 3 | 677 | 662 | 8 | 35 | 697 | 13 |
| 10.35.24.1 - 3 | 665 | 647 | 8 | 38 | 697 | 11 |
| 10.35.11.13 - 3 | 681 | 667 | 8 | 38 | 699 | 9 |
| 216.156.103.29.ptr.us.xo.net - 3 | 681 | 667 | 9 | 42 | 697 | 17 |
| ae1d0.mcr2.columbus-oh.us.xo.net - 4 | 645 | 622 | 68 | 90 | 699 | 75 |
| vb1121.rar3.chicago-il.us.xo.net - 5 | 633 | 607 | 70 | 89 | 697 | 79 |
| te-4-1-0.rar3.denver-co.us.xo.net - 5 | 633 | 607 | 70 | 90 | 699 | 78 |
| te0-13-0-0.rar3.la-ca.us.xo.net - 5 | 629 | 602 | 69 | 89 | 698 | 82 |
| 207.88.14.218.ptr.us.xo.net - 27 | 357 | 262 | 0 | 95 | 699 | 75 |
| 216.156.64.98.ptr.us.xo.net - 6 | 613 | 582 | 79 | 96 | 691 | 86 |
| te8-5.bbr1.sjc1.bandcon.com - 7 | 585 | 547 | 105 | 123 | 694 | 114 |
| 8.5.2.4 - 7 | 593 | 557 | 78 | 93 | 697 | 87 |
| 69.64.152.189 - 5 | 621 | 592 | 75 | 96 | 698 | 85 |
| airliners.net - 6 | 597 | 562 | 75 | 91 | 698 | 84 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|

With my limited knowledge, it looks like packet loss starts almost immediately with the 10.35.25.78 ip. Would I be right to assume that this is WoW equipment here in Columbus? If anyone sees something that indicates it is a problem with my computer equipment here in the house please let me know and will pursue it.

WOW_Dan I really appreciate your involvement you seem to take on the board here and was wondering if you would have any insight. If you need additional info from me, do not hesitate to let me know.

Thanks all!

hudiat

join:2011-10-13
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·WOW Internet and..
Okay, I really don't want to be that guy, but enough is enough. Come on WOW, how many people have to call you out on packet loss and bad ping. Go ahead and say there is an issue here, isolated here, can't figure it out, well what do we all have in common, the new arris equipment.

I mean really, come on.

"Whether it be 1 person having an issue or 500, we want to make sure it is fixed" -many places on WOW!'s website

Well more than 1 for sure are having the exact same issues, and all have one thing in common.

Dan, please do a favor and do a winMTR for atleast 2000 with both an arris, and with a SB6121 and post the results. Preferably from home, in a real world situation, not at the office.

maxwatts

join:2012-01-25
Dude, I just got wow last tuesday and have been having issues since before the installer left. Previously had TW's DOCSIS 3.0 service with little/no issue. WOW_Dan as awesome as he is is pointing to my inside wiring as the culprit and so did a wow tech i spoke with over the phone. I had my inside wiring (aka one cable) replaced and they still say it's the issue. This is crazy.


WOW_Dan
Premium
join:2011-03-24
Naperville, IL
kudos:36
reply to Damagran
said by Damagran :

I have tried multiple variations (straight to WoW Modem (Arris TM602G), through the router, from a completely separate desktop in my house) and am always having packet loss problems now. Speeds are always good, just seems to be packet problems.

I have checked my modems status page and everything there looks to be in order:
DOWN: 4dBmV SNR 39dB
UP: 37dBmV

This modem is a phone modem, so I will start by asking, do you have phone service from WOW? If you'd like me to take a closer look, I will need you to send me your account number or phone number on the account so I can find your information.
--
Dan Della Terza
WOW! Internet, Cable & Phone
Network Operations Center


WOW_Dan
Premium
join:2011-03-24
Naperville, IL
kudos:36
reply to hudiat
said by hudiat:

Go ahead and say there is an issue here, isolated here, can't figure it out, well what do we all have in common, the new arris equipment.

This is not a new Arris modem. It's a DOCSIS 2.0 eMTA that we've been using for many years.

maxwatts

join:2012-01-25
reply to maxwatts
I just got an SB6121 and the issue seems to be moderately better...

hudiat

join:2011-10-13
Also got a SB6121 today. The random ping jumps are gone. Both me and atleast 1 other person I personally know had random ping jumps with the arris, gone with the SB6121.

However, packet loss is still present.

Nelson469

join:2009-11-20
Palmer, AK
reply to Damagran
Swap modems. If there is no change in service, use Visual Route to help gather evidence. Poll the router with the problem and find out who owns it and contact them. If it's your provider, skip loser support and move to tier 2 support (the geeks that actually manage and maintain the system) and work with them. Get the run around? Let the provider know that you'll be contacting your state's public utilities commission. Usually this threat has the same effect as a sun lamp on vampires.

maxwatts

join:2012-01-25
reply to Damagran
Im also in columbus (grandview heights) here i am after SB6121

|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| ADMIN - 0 | 198 | 198 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 40 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 10.35.25.38 - 1 | 195 | 194 | 10 | 18 | 34 | 17 |
| 10.35.11.13 - 2 | 187 | 184 | 10 | 18 | 40 | 22 |
| gi1-3.ccr01.cmh02.atlas.cogentco.com - 19 | 115 | 94 | 0 | 36 | 180 | 27 |
| te4-1.ccr01.ind01.atlas.cogentco.com - 19 | 115 | 94 | 0 | 32 | 69 | 26 |
| te4-3.ccr01.sbn01.atlas.cogentco.com - 19 | 115 | 94 | 0 | 34 | 144 | 30 |
|te0-0-0-5.mpd21.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com - 2 | 187 | 184 | 21 | 30 | 48 | 28 |
|te0-0-0-1.ccr21.ord03.atlas.cogentco.com - 2 | 191 | 189 | 22 | 30 | 51 | 29 |
|te0-0-0-0.ccr22.ord03.atlas.cogentco.com - 2 | 191 | 189 | 21 | 30 | 51 | 33 |
| te-9-1.car4.Chicago1.Level3.net - 8 | 151 | 139 | 20 | 30 | 82 | 33 |
| ae-32-52.ebr2.Chicago1.Level3.net - 2 | 191 | 189 | 20 | 30 | 45 | 29 |
| ae-3-3.ebr2.Atlanta2.Level3.net - 8 | 155 | 144 | 0 | 44 | 58 | 44 |
| ae-26-52.car2.Atlanta2.Level3.net - 9 | 147 | 134 | 0 | 43 | 67 | 46 |
| GOOGLE-INC.car2.Atlanta2.Level3.net - 8 | 155 | 144 | 0 | 43 | 60 | 47 |
| 4.71.254.160 - 1 | 195 | 194 | 34 | 43 | 65 | 40 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

maxwatts

join:2012-01-25
is "gi1-3.ccr01.cmh02.atlas.cogentco.com" on wow's side? 20% loss on three cogent boxes in a row seems REALLY bad...


mix

join:2002-03-19
Utica, MI
Maybe WOW_Dan can clarify this for us. Does the internal WOW network, which is shown here as addresses in the 10.0.0.x range, drop or prioritize packets? Or should we always expect an echo response to our echo requests when we use ping as a tool to measure latency and packet loss?

Damagran

join:2012-01-30
Grove City, OH
reply to WOW_Dan
Thank you for taking the time to look. I IM'd my account number to you on this board.

(And just for everyone trying to help narrow, this is an older modem as WOW_Dan says, I have probably had service with WOW for 4 years or so I would imagine. I did have phone service, but terminated that maybe 4 months ago due to lack of use.)

Thanks everyone for help/ideas.


WOW_Dan
Premium
join:2011-03-24
Naperville, IL
kudos:36
I will return to the office on Thursday and take a closer look. The reason I ask about the phone service is that I've known some of those modems to act up when they don't have phone provisioned, because it will constantly try and look for phone service. I will see what else I can find, but if nothing else, we would want to replace that modem with a standard modem instead of the phone modem.


WOW_Dan
Premium
join:2011-03-24
Naperville, IL
kudos:36
reply to maxwatts
said by maxwatts:

is "gi1-3.ccr01.cmh02.atlas.cogentco.com" on wow's side? 20% loss on three cogent boxes in a row seems REALLY bad...

That would be a Cogent circuit, not us. When I get back to the office I will see what I can do about checking that circuit out, but it's out of our control, we would have to contact Cogent if we found an issue with it.
--
Dan Della Terza
WOW! Internet, Cable & Phone
Network Operations Center


WOW_Dan
Premium
join:2011-03-24
Naperville, IL
kudos:36
reply to mix
said by mix:

Maybe WOW_Dan can clarify this for us. Does the internal WOW network, which is shown here as addresses in the 10.0.0.x range, drop or prioritize packets? Or should we always expect an echo response to our echo requests when we use ping as a tool to measure latency and packet loss?

The first hop after your router is the CMTS, that hop will never respond to ICMP, which is why you always see a "No response from host" in line 1 or 2. The 10.x networks you see are WOW routers that route to the internet circuits. These routers can and do prioritize if need be. It's not often they're strained enough to need to drop or delay an ICMP request, but it does happen when traffic is heavy. ICMP requests such as ping and traceroute are prioritized very low on most networks, as to keep people who are pinging from slowing down someone trying to stream a video or something important.
--
Dan Della Terza
WOW! Internet, Cable & Phone
Network Operations Center

Damagran

join:2012-01-30
Grove City, OH
Thank you Dan for the response. I will wait til Thursday or Friday to see if you are able to post a response saying if you found anything. Next week I will pursue getting a replacement modem from WoW. Something that I can swing buy and pick up from the local WOW shop here, or best to set up a tech appointment?

Thanks again!!

And just another report for good measure....I don't know if these actually help you guys, but this was taken Monday night starting at approximately 8:20p local time:

|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------|

| WinMTR statistics |

| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |

|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|

| 192.168.1.1 - 0 | 723 | 723 | 0 | 0 | 9 | 0 |

| No response from host - 100 | 145 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |

| 10.35.25.78 - 2 | 687 | 678 | 8 | 14 | 105 | 13 |

| 10.35.24.1 - 1 | 699 | 693 | 8 | 15 | 107 | 15 |

| 10.35.11.13 - 2 | 687 | 678 | 8 | 15 | 106 | 15 |

| 216.156.103.29.ptr.us.xo.net - 2 | 687 | 678 | 9 | 19 | 124 | 15 |

| ae1d0.mcr2.columbus-oh.us.xo.net - 2 | 695 | 688 | 9 | 18 | 108 | 13 |

| vb1121.rar3.chicago-il.us.xo.net - 1 | 703 | 698 | 20 | 30 | 120 | 29 |

| 207.88.14.194.ptr.us.xo.net - 25 | 365 | 274 | 18 | 23 | 73 | 20 |

| xe-0.equinix.chcgil09.us.bb.gin.ntt.net - 1 | 703 | 698 | 18 | 32 | 188 | 27 |

| ae-1.r05.chcgil09.us.bb.gin.ntt.net - 1 | 703 | 698 | 19 | 26 | 120 | 27 |

|a23-13-108-137.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com - 2 | 691 | 683 | 19 | 26 | 115 | 21 |

|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|

maxwatts

join:2012-01-25
reply to Damagran
This makes me wonder. I was just installed last Tuesday w/ the docsis 3.0 service with a phone modem as well.

I wonder if WOW has docsis 3 non phone modems? And if they have issues with no phone provisioned then is that why going to a SB6121 helped? Interesting...

Damagran

join:2012-01-30
Grove City, OH
reply to Damagran
Sorry to rez an old thread but same stuff.

Ultra TV installed. Still having same problems. Things will flow smooth for a bit then the system seems to "hiccup". When gaming I will be humming along with a nice ping of around 70 and then maybe every 1-2 minutes it will lag out to a ping of 700 or more, then go right back to 70ish.

I can duplicate on 2 separate computers in my house each hard wired separately into the gateway.

Doesnt matter if I ping-test close or far. I can duplicate.

Also, WinMTR doesnt seem to like the new Gateway boxes when trying to run its test. I get very erratic replies which are obviously wrong no matter what ip I try.

|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| No response from host - 100 | 31 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 10.35.25.82 - 5 | 132 | 126 | 8 | 68 | 403 | 8 |
| 10.35.24.2 - 46 | 55 | 30 | 0 | 14 | 72 | 12 |
| 10.35.11.17 - 22 | 84 | 66 | 0 | 22 | 95 | 87 |
| xe-5-1-0.bar1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net - 58 | 47 | 20 | 0 | 15 | 51 | 12 |
| No response from host - 100 | 31 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 31 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 4.69.138.168 - 86 | 35 | 5 | 0 | 32 | 78 | 21 |
| gblx-level3-10g.Chicago3.Level3.net - 92 | 34 | 3 | 0 | 97 | 151 | 151 |
| No response from host - 100 | 31 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 31 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
|a184-85-44-137.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com - 0 | 156 | 156 | 31 | 51 | 443 | 35 |

WOW_Dan is there a program I can install either freeware or from WOW that I can run to prove that there is a problem, kind of like WinMTR that will work correctly with the Ultra TV gateways?

I have also run the winMTR test back when I had the old modem and pinged the WOW Cable speedtest site which is supposedly on their network only and could duplicate the problem.

This is an ongoing problem that I need to have fixed and from the boards it seems like I am not the only one. I love Ultra TV, but something has to give =)

Thanks for all the help.

sjc3

join:2007-03-02
Columbus, OH
reply to Damagran
I've started seeing something similar tonight. I have both a Sprint Airrave and a Obi110. My wife reports that both were working fine for voice calls in the morning, but when she tried to make a call this afternoon, outbound voice quality was unacceptable. Speed tests showed half the speed I should be expecting, but are back to normal now. Packet loss and jitter are still outside of normal ranges -- seeing between 4-7% packet loss and 100+ms jitter.

After 124 continuous pings to google.com I'm getting 5% loss with a minimum ping time of 21 and a max of 919 (avg 37).