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mikmax11

join:2002-12-01
Naperville, IL

E4200v2 cannot get 300mbs like my 3700v1

I just replaced a 2 year old NG 3700V1 with a new E4200V2. I have an HP Laptop with an N adapter built in and an HP desktop with a Netgear wn111V2. I got 300mbs all the time with the 3700, but cannot get past 130mbs with the E4200 even in same room. I had similar issue with E4200V1 (took it back a year ago).
Any clues why? My signal strength is 100%. I've tried every combo of wireless mode, Channels, and frequencies to no avail. My 5ghz clients are seeing 300mbs even with lower strength.


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON
The E4200v2 uses a different chipset than the v1 so U need to find out which technology [beamforing vs Spatial Multiplexing] it supports then find out which technology your 'clients' support then U will know why ur getting lower speeds. When technology matches performance is superior. Not all N gear are equal.

Shady Bimmer
Premium
join:2001-12-03
Northport, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to mikmax11
My E4200 had the 2.4GHz radio set to 20MHz bandwidth only while the 5GHz radio was set to Auto by default. You may want to check this and ensure both radios are set to Auto.

Also, both radios on mine were set to "mixed" network mode by default. Unless you have a need for legacy (a/b/g) you should check this setting too.

You may have already checked these but if not it is a place to start.


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

2 edits
reply to mozerd
The E4200v2 utilizes the Marvel Chipset -- the schema Marvel uses is Beam-forming.

The E4200v1 utilizes the Broadcom Chipset -- the schema Broadcom uses is Spatial Multiplexing

The WNDR 3700v1 utilizes the Atheros chipset -- the schema Atheros uses is Spatial Multiplexing

Your client -- Netgear wn111V2 matches the Atheros chipset so when used with the E4200v2 you will not see the performance you expect and the reason why your WNDR3700v1 provides better performance with your wn111V2. If you exchange your E4200v2 for a E4200v1 then you would see better performance with your wn111V2 client.

[Note added for lurkers] Most if not all of the chipmakers [Broadcom, Ralink, Qualcom(Atheros,Airgo) and Marvell have incorporated eitheir Spatial Multiplexing or Beamforming or some combination of both schemas in their INDIVIDUAL chip designs -- so it is important to find out which chip and schema is used in your Router and Client to determin the closeest match to be able to gain performance to your liking.
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business

decx
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Vancouver, BC
said by mozerd:

[Note added for lurkers] Most if not all of the chipmakers [Broadcom, Ralink, Qualcom(Atheros,Airgo) and Marvell have incorporated eitheir Spatial Multiplexing or Beamforming or some combination of both schemas in their INDIVIDUAL chip designs -- so it is important to find out which chip and schema is used in your Router and Client to determin the closeest match to be able to gain performance to your liking.

While that is advisable in an ideal world, it is not practical for most users today. Given that most devices have Wifi built in, the end user no longer has a choice in the Wifi client to install in their device. Consequently, the average 802.11n network would be expected to have a number of chipsets from various manufacturers revisions.

To make matters worse, manufacturers often don't even match the chipsets in the AP and client hardware anymore. For example, the latest Apple AEBS is Marvell based while the 2011 MacBook Pros uses the Broadcom Wifi/BT module. Likewise Linksys/Cisco is using Marvell in the E4200V2 while using the Broadcom BCM43236 in the AE2500 client adapter.


Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI
kudos:2
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
reply to mozerd
said by mozerd:

[Note added for lurkers] Most if not all of the chipmakers [Broadcom, Ralink, Qualcom(Atheros,Airgo) and Marvell have incorporated eitheir Spatial Multiplexing or Beamforming or some combination of both schemas in their INDIVIDUAL chip designs -- so it is important to find out which chip and schema is used in your Router and Client to determin the closeest match to be able to gain performance to your liking.

Lurker here. We're talking about antenna directionality optimization? Would the affect be no problem close to the AP but range falls quickly?

Or do the two conflict so badly they're stealing airtime and, thus, throughput... while the Italian is trying to negotiate with the Swede?


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON
reply to decx
said by decx:

While that is advisable in an ideal world, it is not practical for most users today. Given that most devices have Wifi built in, the end user no longer has a choice in the Wifi client to install in their device. Consequently, the average 802.11n network would be expected to have a number of chipsets from various manufacturers revisions.

To make matters worse, manufacturers often don't even match the chipsets in the AP and client hardware anymore. For example, the latest Apple AEBS is Marvell based while the 2011 MacBook Pros uses the Broadcom Wifi/BT module. Likewise Linksys/Cisco is using Marvell in the E4200V2 while using the Broadcom BCM43236 in the AE2500 client adapter.

Yep, there is nothing practical about N nor how the standards authority chose to deal with the multifaceted nature of N Fortunately 80% of people will not notice or care until it hits them in their perception senses. The other 19% --- well who knows? and the 1% --- they got DSLReports
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON
reply to Bill_MI
said by Bill_MI:

We're talking about antenna directionality optimization? Would the affect be no problem close to the AP but range falls quickly?

Or do the two conflict so badly they're stealing airtime and, thus, throughput... while the Italian is trying to negotiate with the Swede?

Its truly a complex dilemma we are talking about the sending side [wireless router -- and how it transmits/receives from/to the client] and the receiving side [the client and how it receives/transmits to the wireless router.

The following quote provides a very good summation:

But in the coloured world of 802.11n, there are various options and configurations possible. For example, each 802.11n compliant device (access point or client adapter) could have unique T x R : S configurations. In addition to the 1×1, 2×2, 3×3, 4×4 configurations and throughput levels shown in the above diagram, there could even be configurations like 1×2, 2×3, 3×2 etc. Each transmit and receive antenna comes with its own radio. Each 802.11n compliant device can support a certain number of spatial streams (transmitted data streams, that have different amplitude and phase, each of which can be independently received at the receiver end). 802.11n compliant devices can work at 20 Mhz or 40 Mhz (bonded channels) and each gives a different throughput. Some of the 802.11n compliant devices work in both 2.4Ghz band as well as 5 Ghz band, while some of them work in either of the two.

Taken from this extremely well done article: What you ought to know before deploying an 802.11n Wireless Network

Although the above article is geared towards business users -- the very same considerations applies to home users.
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business


Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI
kudos:2
Fascinating. Individual radios on each antenna actually synced to provide directional beams with phasing. Thanks for the link.


Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI
kudos:2
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
reply to mikmax11
mikmax11 See Profile, did you catch the E4200v2 firmware update, strangely available ONLY from auto-updating at this time?

»[Firmware] E4200v2 Firmware Updated To v2.0.36

Just so you're aware. Not sure it will help. You may want to ask lordpuffer See Profile


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

2 edits
reply to Bill_MI
said by Bill_MI:

Fascinating. Individual radios on each antenna actually synced to provide directional beams with phasing. Thanks for the link.

No, you've got it wrong. Individual radios exploiting each antenna -- radio is not built into the antenna although that may actually happen one day using nano technology.

Beamforing is only one method as is Spatial Multiplexing or some combination of both -- the chips utilized determine that aspect. -- the whole point of my posts being that Each Vendor/Manufacturer selects which 'method' they will implement in their offering --- which is WHY N is such a colorful world to find oneself in.

A good example of one chip manufacturer whose 4x4 chip system only supports Beamforing Marvell 4x4 chipset take note of their description.

When combined with other Marvell solutions, significant range and throughput performance can be achieved.

--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business

mikmax11

join:2002-12-01
Naperville, IL
reply to mikmax11
I was snooping around the NetGear site...saw some good info...see in the quotes:

"If you are only see 144Mbps then possible you wifi adapter only supports 20Mhz

145Mbps and below is 20Mhz, single channel
150Mbps and up is 40Mhz, dual channel

Also if there is significant wireless is around you, you may only use 20Mhz to avoid conflict the channels. Modern Routers will drop back automatically in order to comply with Neigbor friendly intents of N standards. "

FYI...I had an E4200v1 a year ago. It too, would not run at 300 with the same 111v2 adapter.

I have been tinkering with a NGear 4500 as well. It is getting faster speeds than the E4200V2, but not 300mbs.

My guess is that Cisco takes a more conservative approach to being Neigbor friendly than Netgear, esp with the older wndr3700v1.

Also, I noted that changing channels and/or frequencies at the 5ghz range, also affects 2.4ghz speeds. Must be some radio spectrum interaction going on between the two. I get best 2.4 performance with Mixed Mode, Channels on Auto, and Frequency set to Auto for both 5 and 2.4ghz. Those are actually the defaults I believe. One thing...If I choose 20ghz on 2.4, it kills my Sony Blue Ray Wifi. That Sony is only 10 feet from the router...but in a rack. It can use 5ghz, but it stutters sometimes on Netflix when using 5ghz. Works fine on 2.4.

I called Linksys about my problem. He was pretty decent, but in the end...told me to take it back to store. Not sure I will, cause I got the V2 for $135..that may never happen again! (I think they gave it to me by mistake. The box has no special V2 designation")



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to mikmax11
Uh guys I'm having this problem with both the E4200v1 AND the E4200v2 both using different chipsets. I have an intel ultimate n 6300 on both my laptops with latest drivers and both are having the same problem even when I'm in the same room as them. Both routers are set to 5GHz and 2.4GHz auto channel width. When connected to the 5GHz I get the full 450Mbps on both routers, but when connected to the 2.4GHz I only get 130Mbps on the v1 and 217Mbps on the v2 while in the same room. I've used both of the routers at different times and in different locations, including different parts of the state I live in, and I've also made sure that the wireless channels were not overlapping with neighboring wireless channels, ie my neighbors use channel 1, 6, and 11 and I'm set at channel 8 where no one else uses. It is like I can't force the routers to connect at 40MHz channel width for anything.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to Bill_MI
firmware update didn't help in my case because this issue I had occurred before the firmware updated, and has continued after.


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON
reply to Mike Wolf
said by Mike Wolf:

ie my neighbors use channel 1, 6, and 11 and I'm set at channel 8 where no one else uses. It is like I can't force the routers to connect at 40MHz channel width for anything.

on the 2.4 band U should only be using 1,6 or 11 .... If you have over 6 competing wireless networks in close proximity bandwidth contention will be significant consequently your throughput will be erratic unless your system produces the strongest consistent signal. Cisco's Linksys E series bonding methods are not always reliable for whatever reasons much having to do with poor firmware quality.
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
Well the problem is everyone around me is using alot of channels. Currently I'm seeing 6 networks on channel 1, 2 networks on channel 2, 1 network on channel 3, 4 networks on channel 6, and 3 networks on channel 11 So I just figured I'd stick with channel 8 since there is nothing around the 7, 9, and 10 channels.

Anyway even when I've put my router in locations where there are no other networks, like in the middle of farmland, I still at max see 217Mbps when in the same room as the router.


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON
said by Mike Wolf:

Well the problem is everyone around me is using alot of channels. I'd stick with channel 8 since there is nothing around the 7, 9, and 10 channels.

Do not use any other channel --- on the 2.4 band U should only be using 1,6 or 11

IN the 2.4Ghz Band and in view of the fact that you do have over 6 competing wireless networks in close proximity bandwidth contention will be significant REGARDLESS consequently your throughput will be erratic unless your system [the E wireless Router AND your intel ultimate n 6300 clients] produces the strongest consistent signal.

If you are using BlueTooth gear or wireless mouse that will also degrade your 2.4Ghz signals causing bandwidth degradation.
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
You see the problem is everyone else does the same thing and then you run into the problem of those channels having interferance. I mean when there is 16 networks on channel 1, 19 networks on channel 6, and 13 networks on channel 11, all trying to work in close proximity I hope you could see where problems could start.

It is true that other 2.4GHz computer gear will cause problems and the same thing with bluetooth gear, I agree.