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HDClown

@rr.com

WH-DVR with MoCA home networking?

Hoping BHNtechXpert will chime in here.

I just upgraded to WH-DVR. I have a Samsung 3272 DVR and two Cisco 8462HDC's. Guy didn't have any 8762HDC"s on his truck which I was hoping for.

Anyway, prior to my upgrade, I had 3 Motorola NIM100 MoCA networking devices connected in my house. I disconnected all of these before the WH-DVR was upgraded.

What I want to know is, can I reconnect this things, or am I going to cause issues with WH-DVR? The tech installed a filter at my modem to "filter out the WH-DVR communications, or else the modem gets fried". Not sure the truth to that or what impact it may have if I added back my MoCA stuff.

I would really like to use my MoCA stuff, because I already paid for it, and it's good and reliable. Not being able to use it means switching to Powerline, which just means spending money.

Can anyone give me concrete info on this subject?



BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
Premium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:148

You should be able to connect them up and frankly I would like to know how it goes because I am seriously considering using MOCA networking in my home as well...go for it man



HDClown

@rr.com
reply to HDClown

Initial testing = Failure

I turned on 1 NIM100 and I lost MoCA sync on my converters. Unplug the NIM100 and MoCA sync on the converter comes back in about 2 seconds.

Also, I had a converter running throughout he pass-through coax on one of the NIM100's, and even with all NIM100's powered off, that unit would not MoCA sync, even though my other converter did. So the converters don't like running throughout the unit. I ran into something similar with my TiVo and a Tuning Adapter.

The NIM100 I have at my cable modem (with home phone) is setup so that the cable modem runs through the pass-through on that NIM100, and i have zero issues with RR Lightning or Home Phone.

What I will do tomorrow AM is take the NIM100 at my moment and put a splitter on the jack, so that I run from wall -> splitter -> NIM100 and the other side of the splitter to modem. Then I'll put a splitter at the jack for my other NIM100 and see if I get any different results.

Digging through the NIM100's, there is a place you can set a DES key. The brief description says all MoCA devices need to same DES key to interoperate. So it's possible there is a key mismatch between NIM100's and BHN gear causing BHN gear to lose MoCA sync.

What is weird is that the NIM100's work fine, extending my home network when powered on, but the BHN gear doesn't. That doesn't make much sense.



BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
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join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:148
reply to HDClown

Thanks for the update and that kinda sucks to be honest (was really hoping this works). Let me know what happens tomorrow


tim tim tim

join:2010-08-14
Lutz, FL
kudos:2
reply to HDClown

Do you know what frequencie the nim100's are using to transmit? also, do you know what frequencies the pass through supports up to?



HDClown

@rr.com

BHNtechXpert: Will do. Unrelated: Any tips on how I can get my local office to give me an 8742HDC, or get a truck roll to get me one and swap out my SMT-H3272? Two weeks ago, I saw all kinds of people posting here about getting 8742HDC's.

tim tim tim: No clue on the pass-through. The NIM100's use an Entropic chipset, but don't know much about specifics. In the "coax" section of the web interface, under "Channel", it lists:

15 (1150 Mhz)
17 (1200 Mhz)
19 (1250 Mhz)
21 (1300 Mhz)
23 (1350 Mhz)
25 (1400 Mhz)

There is also a "bridge type" with setting of network coordinator, client, or auto. Mine are all set auto.



HDCown

@rr.com

Interesting. The NIM100 I turned on is communicating with the H3272 DVR. Diags for the DVR show MoCA RF channel at 1150Mhz, and the NIM100 is on 1200Mhz. Communication is at 250mbps, so it's working fine with the NIM100 Samsung box.

So it seems like the issues is with the Cisco 4742HDC's not communicating.



BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
Premium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:148

Try rebooting them and see if they adapt.


tim tim tim

join:2010-08-14
Lutz, FL
kudos:2

What are you trying to share over your home moca network? I'm not too familiar with them but I am quite familiar with how the bhn system works. The bhn moca are using the same frequencies that your nim100's are using which is why the Samsung is finding it. I would assume that the Cisco's should as well, try rebooting them like bhntech suggested. Not sure if they will actually play what your trying to share but I guess its worth a shot. Like I said, I dont know much about what your trying to do


tim tim tim

join:2010-08-14
Lutz, FL
kudos:2

So I did 2 seconds of research and found out what the nim100's do. Are you hoping to be able to stream content to your box over these or are you hoping to be able to just use them along with your moca system?

with more thought, I dont see why you wouldnt be able to use them both. you MIGHT encounter issues when you are trying to use the whdvr function (watch a recording in a different room). I dont see why it wouldnt work at all other times.

Those moca filters are just low pass filters. Everything over 1ghz is reflected back away from the filter. If your nim100's arent working after his install, there may be a filter in the wrong spot or something. The modem does need to be seperated from the moca network, it wont fry the modem but it will cause connection issues. It doesnt nessesarily need a filter behind it though. I wish I could go and troubleshoot it in person to see if it would work!



HDClown

@rr.com
reply to tim tim tim

NIM100's are simply MoCA network extenders (bridges). They have coax in, coax out, power, and 1 ethernet jack.

I am using the NIM100's to extend my home network into rooms I don't have ethernet cable ran. WiFi isn't good enough to stream 1080p content, so I got a trio of NIM100's off eBay and have been using them for years now to support my 1080p streaming needs.

All I'm hoping to do is keep my NIM100's talking to each other for extending my network, and the BHN boxes talking to each other so WH-DVR works.

And of course, now all my boxes are getting MoCA sync just fine. Why does it work now and not before? Not a clue. I didn't power cycle the DVR or converters, just the NIM100's (various times in the past few hours).

I think the converters may be sensitive to running on the pass-through though, so I will have to split at the jack for the one in that room. My DVR is not using pass-through for the NIM100 from it's original setup, and I can't remember why I did that in general.



HDClown

@rr.com

I will need to try some WH-DVR operations file I actively use a NIM100. Considering how MoCA works in general, I should be able to use all devices at the same time. Total bandwidth will be effected of course, but with each MoCA devices running around 250 Mbps, I'm sure I'd have enough capacity. The 1080p content i stream average about 12Mbps, and at most, I have 2x1080p streams going.

So then it's a matter of the Mbps rate of WH-DVR content streamed form DVR to converter.



BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
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join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
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reply to HDClown

Yes technically they should operate fine together. It is possible they just needed to sync. Not knowing myself...it's just a guess...so you have everything wiorking now?


tim tim tim

join:2010-08-14
Lutz, FL
kudos:2

The only issue I can think of it having is 2 streams trying to use the same frequency. Im not sure how smart the boxes are in that sense. If his moca adapters are using one of the frequencies that the bhn box uses, will it know to use a different or will it try to send it out and have them interfere with eachother.



HDClown

@rr.com
reply to BHNtechXpert

The DVR and 2xConverters all have their MoCA home networking lights lit up, and two of my 3 NIM100's are working. I need to play around with the 3rd one again (pass-through vs. splitter) tomorrow AM.

i don't actually have any completed recordings in my DVR to test the WH playback, but I will by tomorrow AM, so I'll do some experiments with that tomorrow AM.



BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
Premium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:148
reply to HDClown

Well I also have WHDVR and have always wanted to play with MOCA for home networking...off to Amazon I go worst case I send them back



HDClown

@rr.com

Well, back to experimenting. Even though my receivers showed MoCA sync, they were not talking to the DVR, as they would not pull up the few shows that finished recording. So I unplugged the NIM100's and tried again, no difference. I then unplugged the coax from a converter and back in, MoCA sync came back, but no difference. I then power cycled the converter and when it came back up, it was able to talk to the DVR.

I think tomorrow AM i will make sure both converters are talking to the DVR, then start plugging in NIM100's and see if WH-DVR stays working, and the NIM100's work for extending network. If they do, the next step will be to see if it every breaks.

I'm now wondering if power on sequence is going to have an impact on everything working properly. So I may also try an alternate power on sequence to see if it matters. Could just be a bunch of flukes and just refreshing everything with hard power cycles in general may "sort it out". More fun tomorrow AM.



BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
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join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:148
reply to HDClown

Well this is a good learning thread from my standpoint...thanks for the updates and good luck in the AM.



HDClown

@rr.com

Well, I think I'm giving up. On this.

I spent some time this morning watching MoCA Diags page 1 in the DVR and Receivers. I noticed that the Cisco receivers never seemed to scan channel 17/1200Mhz or 19/1250Mhz. So I set two of the NIM100's to channel 17/1200Mhz and thought I was good, until the Samsung DVR jumped over from 21/1300Mhz (where it and the 2 Cisco receivers were talking) to 1200Mhz! d0h!!!!

So I played around more with different power on sequences and could get the DVR/Receivers to stay on their own channel (21/1300Mhz in this scenario) and the NIM's on 17/1200Mhz, but the receivers would constantly loose sync, get really low speeds, etc, and they couldn't partake in WH-DVR.

Tried to learn more about how MoCA works and found some info here: »www.cable360.net/ct/sections/fea···350.html

---
Communication between devices on a MoCA network is under the control of a node designated as the network coordinator (NC). This is usually the node with the highest bit rate performance. A node joins a MoCA network by listening for a beacon signal from the NC. Upon “hearing” the beacon, it sends an admission request to join the network. If no beacon is heard, the new node assumes it is the first and begins transmission of its own beacon. MoCA 1.1 completes the probe and beacon tasks faster than its predecessor MoCA 1.0. This allows an increase in the maximum number of nodes from eight to 16 and provides a throughput increase from 100 to 175 Mbps network throughput for 95 percent of the nodes.

The NC is also responsible for managing transmission timing and the associated QoS. Transmission occurs during repetitive cycles preceded by a MAP. MoCA 1.1 introduced parameterized QoS. In contrast to the prioritized QoS of MoCA 1.0, parameterized QoS is based upon a fully scheduled media access control (MAC) with no collisions. With parameterized QoS, transmissions are allocated on the basis of flows, rather than individual packets. When a device on the network is ready to transmit, the NC reserves a timeslot on a MAP for the required transmission window, which may span several cycles.

Link layer privacy is implemented with password-based 56-bit data encryption standard (DES) encryption. To communicate, nodes on the network must have a matching password, which is entered by the user and stored in the device on the node.

---

So I set my NIM100's as 'client' instead of auto, thinking that one of the receivers or DVR's would act as network coordinator make things work, no such luck. I think the last piece above about the DES encryption and every device needing a matching password may be my problem.

It seems like MoCA devices will still advertise to each other and try to join networks and even get speed info, but they seem to not be able to actually transmit data, and I think that may be where the key comes into play. Without reading technical specs, I wouldn't know for sure, but I have no desire to do that.

So, unless any of you guys can get some details from BHN engineers on how I can troubleshoot more, or get me the DES key that BHN uses so I can try setting that in my NIM100's, I'm out of options, and will probably need to convert to Powerline networking.



BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
Premium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:148
reply to HDClown

I have a meeting today with our network folks and next week with video and will make it a point to ask about this....don't give up yet



HDClown

@rr.com

Did you learn anything fun and exciting from the network guys?



BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
Premium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:148
reply to HDClown

This is gonna have to go to Video because of the WHDVR. I have a meeting with them on Weds of next week and will bring it up then.


HDClown

join:2012-02-02

tomorrow is Wed, wanted to throw out a reminder for this one :/



BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
Premium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:148
reply to HDClown

lol no worries haven't forgotten...hopefully they will have the answer...



BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
Premium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:148
reply to HDClown

Okay I have some updated information. I would like you to open a Direct Forums thread for us to continue working on this together. I also need to know if you would object to us swapping out that Samsung DVR for Cisco 8742 or similar unit. Put all of that including the usual account specific stuff in the direct forums thread please.