 USR56K
join:2000-05-20
Lynnwood, WA | Gas fireplace insert not very hot I've got a Ravenna RDV33 gas fireplace insert running on natural gas. It came with the house.
* Steady-State Efficiency- 83% - 86%
* 33,000/24,000 Input Rate (BTU / HR)
My father has an Avalon DVS EF Insert (SIT) on natural gas. It was professionally installed.
* Steady State Efficiency (with blowers on) - 80.5%
* 31,000/24,900 Input Rate (BTU / HR) (this is what the safety card chained to the fireplace says, regardless of what the manual states otherwise).
After his fireplace gets up to temperature, one can only sit in front of it for maybe 10 minutes before it'll literally burn you. However with mine on full burner and fan, I could stand there forever. Sure its hot, but nothing compared to the heat which his puts out.
This leads me to wonder if there is something wrong with mine. I believe the flames are correctly adjusted. Pic below, fire has been on for ~2 minutes.
What else could cause low [perceptual] heat output?
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 tp0dyabbazooiePremium
join:2001-02-13
Carnegie, PA
kudos:2 | does his have a chimney damper on it, and is it partially restricted? this will cause more heat buildup.
'clocking' the gas meter with just the fireplace running is a good way to check if the fireplace is using the rated amount of gas. If your main pressure is low, or the gas line to the fireplace is very long or restricted, it will use less fuel. you`ll usually have late ignition in this case also.
I`m assuming your blower is working correctly? How different is the design of his compared to yours? maybe theres a larger heat exchanger area on his
-j
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USR56K
join:2000-05-20
Lynnwood, WA | said by tp0d:does his have a chimney damper on it, and is it partially restricted? this will cause more heat buildup. His house is 2 floors. The insert is on the bottom floor. The fireplace upstairs has the damper closed. I'd assume downstairs is wide open due to the inserts venting.
said by tp0d:'clocking' the gas meter with just the fireplace running is a good way to check if the fireplace is using the rated amount of gas. If your main pressure is low, or the gas line to the fireplace is very long or restricted, it will use less fuel. you`ll usually have late ignition in this case also. Wouldn't the readings be skewed if my water heater is also gas? anyways, my insert is literally 3 ft away from the gas main on the property. It was all repiped in 2009 by a gas contractor (imagine the original insert had the gas shutoff valve behind the insert? yea, wtf.)
said by tp0d:I`m assuming your blower is working correctly? How different is the design of his compared to yours? maybe theres a larger heat exchanger area on his I'd assume so too. It puts out a decent airflow... quite nosy too at full speed. No idea on the heat exchanger, but the efficiency rating of each should take that into account, right?
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 SavantPremium
join:2001-08-12
Toronto | reply to USR56K
There should be a 'flame height' knob on this unit IIRC. Clockwise is for higher flame and counter for lower flame (and lower heat). The flame height knob is to the right of the pilot/gas knob. Check that and see what you have it set to.
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USR56K
join:2000-05-20
Lynnwood, WA | said by Savant:There should be a 'flame height' knob on this unit IIRC. Clockwise is for higher flame and counter for lower flame (and lower heat). The flame height knob is to the right of the pilot/gas knob. Check that and see what you have it set to.
It's set to high -- as previously stated.
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 Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to USR56K
Sounds to me OP is running it with the chimney damper open which sucks most of the heat up the chimney. |
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 jack bGone FishingPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1 | reply to USR56K
It looks like there's too much primary air for the burner. Most gas fireplaces I've seen burn with more yellow in the flames.
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tp0dyabbazooiePremium
join:2001-02-13
Carnegie, PA
kudos:2 | reply to USR56K
said by USR56K:said by tp0d:does his have a chimney damper on it, and is it partially restricted? this will cause more heat buildup. His house is 2 floors. The insert is on the bottom floor. The fireplace upstairs has the damper closed. I'd assume downstairs is wide open due to the inserts venting. Assume nothing. you know what that word does. quite possible his damper is partially shut.
-j
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TheMGPremium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to USR56K
said by USR56K:After his fireplace gets up to temperature, one can only sit in front of it for maybe 10 minutes before it'll literally burn you. However with mine on full burner and fan, I could stand there forever. Sure its hot, but nothing compared to the heat which his puts out.
Does his also have a fan or no?
If his doesn't have a fan, then that would explain why it feels like it's putting out more heat. But it is only an illusion, the heat output remains the same, but the heat is distributed more evenly instead of being concentrated around the fireplace.
The fan will decrease the overall temperature of the insert, which will decrease the amount of radiated heat in the front of the fireplace. As well, the temperature of the air rising from the fireplace through natural convection will always be higher than forced air from a fan. |
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USR56K
join:2000-05-20
Lynnwood, WA | reply to tp0d
said by Jack_in_VA:Sounds to me OP is running it with the chimney damper open which sucks most of the heat up the chimney. Possibly. Looks like I'll have to wait until summer to remove the insert and find out.
said by jack b:It looks like there's too much primary air for the burner. Most gas fireplaces I've seen burn with more yellow in the flames. Alright, here is another picture and the fire has been running for over an hour. Or maybe a short movie would better convey the flames profile? A IR thermometer shows the outside glass is 350F.
said by tp0d:said by USR56K:said by tp0d:does his have a chimney damper on it, and is it partially restricted? this will cause more heat buildup. His house is 2 floors. The insert is on the bottom floor. The fireplace upstairs has the damper closed. I'd assume downstairs is wide open due to the inserts venting. Assume nothing. you know what that word does. quite possible his damper is partially shut. I'll find out and let you know
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USR56K
join:2000-05-20
Lynnwood, WA | said by USR56K:said by tp0d:said by USR56K:said by tp0d:does his have a chimney damper on it, and is it partially restricted? this will cause more heat buildup. His house is 2 floors. The insert is on the bottom floor. The fireplace upstairs has the damper closed. I'd assume downstairs is wide open due to the inserts venting. Assume nothing. you know what that word does. quite possible his damper is partially shut. I'll find out and let you know Just found out  . Fireplace downstairs has the damper open for the two tubes up the chimney which are insulated. Upstairs fireplace is shut.
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USR56K
join:2000-05-20
Lynnwood, WA | reply to USR56K
Alright, took a short video of the flames.
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReY0LCSVSu8 |
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| reply to USR56K
For the manufacturers ratings they are going to put the logs under optimal conditions to get the highest rating. They can restrict the fresh air flow down to the very minimum to get the highest efficiency in a lab situation but it may be hard for a user to replicate the same optimal fresh air flow. |
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| reply to USR56K
The flames shouldn't be blue.
"Why do I have blue flames?
This is normal in the first few minutes of operation. If after the first 30 minutes of full burn you still have blue flames, an adjustment may be needed on your unit."
"Flames turn blue and lift off main burner. Unit goes out within a couple minutes.
Usually a sign of improper venting. Make sure termination cap is installed correctly. Check venting to make sure pipes are connected and sealed properly. Make sure all horizontal venting is level and has no down-slope. Check installation manual to make sure all venting runs follow manufacturer’s guidelines. May need a wind shield around termination cap. Keep the termination cap clear of all debris and snow at all times. Make sure vent cap was installed following manufacturer’s minimum clearances from the ground, roof eaves, shrubs, etc.
Unit burns fine when glass is cracked open but flame turns blue and shuts off after re-installing glass.
A classic sign of improper venting. Exhaust gases are being reintroduced to the combustion zone rather than leaving the vent through the termination cap. Flue gases will not support combustion twice. Firebox is not receiving enough oxygen to support combustion. Check the termination cap for blockage. Check each vent section to ensure a proper seal. Vent pipe may need silicone." |
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| said by 05451874:The flames shouldn't be blue.
"Why do I have blue flames?
This is normal in the first few minutes of operation. If after the first 30 minutes of full burn you still have blue flames, an adjustment may be needed on your unit."
"Flames turn blue and lift off main burner. Unit goes out within a couple minutes.
Usually a sign of improper venting. Make sure termination cap is installed correctly. Check venting to make sure pipes are connected and sealed properly. Make sure all horizontal venting is level and has no down-slope. Check installation manual to make sure all venting runs follow manufacturer’s guidelines. May need a wind shield around termination cap. Keep the termination cap clear of all debris and snow at all times. Make sure vent cap was installed following manufacturer’s minimum clearances from the ground, roof eaves, shrubs, etc.
Unit burns fine when glass is cracked open but flame turns blue and shuts off after re-installing glass.
A classic sign of improper venting. Exhaust gases are being reintroduced to the combustion zone rather than leaving the vent through the termination cap. Flue gases will not support combustion twice. Firebox is not receiving enough oxygen to support combustion. Check the termination cap for blockage. Check each vent section to ensure a proper seal. Vent pipe may need silicone."
actually, this unit is supposed to have rock wool under the logs for the yellow flames, and better heat distribution, maybe he don't have that. »dl.owneriq.net/d/d22f08db-d81e-4···aebf.pdf |
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 sclementSClementPremium
join:2002-06-23
Spanish Fort, AL
·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to USR56K
I claim no expertise in this other than personal experience and reading. That being said, could the issue be the difference between models of "vented" versus "unvented" logs. Unvented logs actually made my family room colder because all the heat went up the open damper. I replaced the vented with an unvented set and closed the damper. . A world of difference. Some jurisdictions do not permit vented logs, e.g., Maryland. Just for-what-it's-worth.
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | +1 Gas logs in a fireplace with the damper open will suck out more heat than they provide. |
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| reply to USR56K
I love my un-vented logs. They are adjustable from 22,000 to 40,000 BTUs/hr. We use them at 22,000 almost all the time because they put out so much heat. |
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USR56K
join:2000-05-20
Lynnwood, WA | reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:+1 Gas logs in a fireplace with the damper open will suck out more heat than they provide. There is a reason I linked to each insert's PDF manual in the OP. For mine it states,
quote:
Make sure that both liners will pass through existing damper area. Remove or lock damper to allow the passage of the flexible liners. If the damper will not allow the passage of both liners, DO NOT PROCEED FURTHER. (If fireplace is masonry) Consult a local mason for removal of the damper without risk of structural damage or leakage (if the fireplace is factory built) The appliance may NOT be installed into the fireplace.
I tried adjusting the air mixture, but the damn thing wouldnt want to budge. Guess I'll hire a Lennox tech to evaluate the whole gas insert setup, as I suspect the previous owner install it (and thus like everything else in this house, done the wrong way).
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 FronkmanAn Apple a day keeps the doctor awayPremium
join:2003-06-23
Saint Louis, MO | reply to Automate
said by Automate:I love my un-vented logs. They are adjustable from 22,000 to 40,000 BTUs/hr. We use them at 22,000 almost all the time because they put out so much heat.
those things scare me. you are depending on a single sensor (oxygen deprivation sensor) to protect you from CO poisoning.
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