O Canada! > Canadian > Rogers > [TV] Downgrade to Analogue

reply to LazMan

Re: [TV] Downgrade to Analogue

reply to sbrook
Actually at least Armstrong in the US still has an analog lineup. No digital converters attached yet. No analog over the air left though.

reply to harold_h

reply to Tracer6

thats how ted roger started up his cable business, he put an antenna on the dorm of his private college and shared the signal with the dorm mates. makes u go hmm.hm

reply to sbrook
> All US TV is digital now.

I'm not quite sure what your comment was aimed at. When it comes to OTA - yes, the US has gone 100% digital. But I wasn't asking about OTA.

I'm asking what US *CABLE* operators are reducing the number of NTSC channels on their CABLE PLANTS as Rogers seems to be doing.

Not that I'm disputing that Rogers is handing out custom QAM boxes that must be registered to work in order to give analog TV's access to formerly analog (NTSC) channels - but can anyone verify that in those markets that Rogers has actually *removed* said NTSC channels from their cable system?

Is any other Cable operator in Canada (Shaw, Cogeco, etc) making noises about removing NTSC channels from their cable systems?

reply to LazMan
There was a thread on digitalhome giving a rogers link that in turn gave a link to a Cisco box.

Pure crap. The box has an input F connector (for your incoming coax service) and an output F connector. And a switch (channel 3/4). So you use the box's remote to tune to a channel you want to watch, and the channel is modulated to channel 3 or 4, and you tune your TV to 3/4. What a load of crap that is. That's 20-year-old VCR technology at work. The fact that the Cisco box doesn't have component, or S-video, or even composite video output is a complete deal-breaker for me. There is no reason for such limited connectivity these days.

Plus, the way I watch TV, I expect the channel to change instantly when I'm hopping around. You get that when your working with conventional NTSC channels and tuners. I hate the delay you get on digital boxes.

reply to Tracer6
My Roger's SD boxes (actual digital STB's) have Co-Ax, composite, and S-Video outputs... I don't have any of the digital terminals, so don't know what they have for outputs...

As for the delay - that's just the way SDV works - if you're tuning rapidly, or if the channel you want is currently not being broadcast on your segment, it will take a moment for the channel to come available. Just the technology - I'm not defending, nor advocating - it's just a fact of life...

reply to sm5w2

reply to sm5w2

Is the current analog NTSC CATV channel spectrum (channels 2 to what - 120?) broadcast from the head end to (and through) the neighborhood distribution hubs to customer drops?

Or are the analog channels transmitted from the head end to the hubs in some sort of compressed manner, and re-generated in the hub so that they appear in NTSC analog form on the customer drop. ?

I don't see how the cable companies can make use of the bandwidth that the NTSC/CATV signals currently use on the customer drops from the hubs. You remove those channels and anything the hub puts in that space is not going to be "seen" by current customer equipment (DOCSIS modems or STB's) because they weren't designed for it. Yes?

Every analog channel that currently exists in the CATV spectrum has a corresponding digital (QAM) counterpart. If these "basic cable" channels (2 through 120) are currently transmitted to the hubs all the time (ie - not selectively) in QAM format (either SDTV or HDTV) then I don't see why the analog NTSC versions of _all_ these channels can't be generated in the hub and then injected onto the customer drop.

The point being that the analog NTSC channels don't need to exist on the cable between the head-end and the hubs. If you remove them from that link, that's where you can really make use of the bandwidth they currently occupy.

I think the removal of analog channels from the hubs to the customer drops is prevent situations where someone cancels cable service but discovers that they still have a bunch of analog cable channels because a service tech didn't come around to put in a filter on their drop. I have some relatives in Windsor (Cogeco) that canceled their digital cable over 2 years ago but still get about 70 or 80 analog channels.

reply to sdv guy
> if you want a SVideo or component or composite connection, i hate
> to break it to you but the STB rogers has been selling for the last 10
> years has those connections.

If I have an SDTV (and all I want to watch is the conventional CATV spectrum - and no pay or on demand) then why would I want a digital STB? I would get no benefit from a STB, plus I'd be paying another what - $5 a month for it?

> not sure what rock you were hiding, but get the stb if the dta
> adaptor does not suit your needs

So my cable bill goes up, and I get really slow channel changing.

No thanks.

My primary TV is a 12-year-old 36" Sony WEGA, which still works great. So I wouldn't benefit from a STB.

reply to LazMan
Thanks again for your truth telling regarding Rogers shift from analogue to digital (i.e.; claiming it to be government mandated). It is clear that they have been converting digital back to analogue for years, for most of the stations. You can often see the picture blocks when signal processing fails. Years ago, before this digital to analogue conversion, this type of picture breakup never happened.
Yes, I own an over-the-air digital receiver - a good one, with analogue pass-through (now out on loan). I just haven't tried it with a good antenna yet. Walking through Canada Computers, I noticed some for $35 - not sure if they are decent.
On the topic of the recent Cogeco digital box at my mother's: Today, I tried to show a video tape on her tv. The screen went into the "...something is wrong with this service..." message as soon as I tried delivering the signal on channel 3 (same as the digital box uses). Since her tv has only one coax IN, I had to disconnect the digital box to show her the video. The only solutions seems to be an extra coax cable or two and an A/B switch.
Also, I agree with others... having noticed the delayed response in changing channels when using the digital box.
Now, I know why Shaw has been inundating Cogeco and Rogers analogue subscribers with offers of a dish and two tuners for $50 per month (over 250 channels/26 in HD) with free basic installation and no long term contracts. In most of the Shaw installations, I think extra charges might apply for anything complex.
What I do not understand is their insistence on connecting their boxes to a phone line. Is this just in cases where you wish to download movies, or perhaps make use of the HD channels?

reply to sm5w2

reply to Tracer6

reply to sm5w2

reply to Tracer6

reply to sm5w2

reply to LazMan
> You've got to stick to one argument... The current f-connected
> co-ax is fine;

Because it goes right into my tv, where I use only 1 remote control to watch TV, and get as little deterioration of the signal as possible as opposed to re-modulation that happens on the free box.

> but using an f-connector on the free DTA isn't acceptable on your
> decade-old TV;

For reason stated above. Slow channel changing, multi-remote hassles, signal re-modulation. And now I need 1 box for every TV in the house? And now I will need to pay for each additional box beyond the first one? What a crock of sh*t.

> but you're not prepared to spend 4.95/mth on an STB that does
> provide the connectors you say you want...

And how many STB's will I need? And how much will that cost? And how many remote controls will I need to juggle?

It's a crock of sh*t that rogers doesn't broadcast basic digital cable channels in clear QAM. At least with my existing digital TV's I wouldn't need to use converter boxes.

> Some people just aren't happy unless they're unhappy. You're coming
> across like one of them here.

I have several CCTV cameras that I remodulate onto channels 100+ and I mix them into my CCTV distribution amp and combine with incoming Rogers coax and that goes to all TV's in the house. I like the way I have it setup. Removal of analog cable channels by Rogers = goodbye rogers, hello OTA.

It's more $$$ upfront in terms of tower, mast, rotator, antenna, pre-amp, and (unfortunately) OTA convertor box (with descent output options) for my WEGA. And as I experience the superior clarity of OTA on my digital TV's (which blows away so-called hi-def digital channels on cable) I will eventually replace my WEGA.