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sm5w2

join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON
reply to LazMan

Re: [TV] Downgrade to Analogue

> Don't know if I can make it any simpler - it's an either/or situation -
> either analog video distribution, or faster internet and more VoD
> services - can't have both...

What I'm saying is -> if the analog channels (2 to 120) are currently present on the link between the head-end and the hubs, then remove them. Repurpose that spectrum on those links. That's where you need more digital bandwidth - not the customer drops from the hubs.

Meanwhile, at the hubs, have the hubs re-generate the entire 2 to 120 analog channel spectrum and throw it on the customer drops. If you need to, have some outputs at the hubs that won't have the analog channels. Connect those up to customers that need the additional digital bandwidth and don't care about the missing analog channels.



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada

I give up...



sm5w2

join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON
reply to dtv guy

> ok mr hot shot, if the cable company decides to turn on clear quam,
> and i want a specialty pay channel, how do u suppose i will receive it

If you ever want to watch a pay channel, then you're going to have to have the CableCo's STB to see it. I'm not disputing that or saying it can be done without a box.

> without my neighbours watcing it for free when i have to pay for it?

Funny thing is that here in London, with my cable feed running directly into my HDTV (what else can I do? I don't have a box) -> I can watch some On-demand and (I think) PPV stuff on some of the channels between 81-nnn and 85-nnn. In the clear. Sometimes the video is paused, fast-forwarded and re-wind (by who-ever has ordered it I suppose).

> well what do u know, thats what the STB was invented for, its
> called a cable subscription.

Still doesn't explain why basic digital cable channels can't be clear-QAM'd. If the CableCo's need to efficiently regulate (ie - turn on or turn off a customer drop) I'm surprised they can't do that at the hub - instead of needing a tech to install a blocker. For those situations where they can remotely turn on or off a drop, then there's really no reason to NOT put basic cable in the clear.



dtv guy

@uu.net

because a STB can Turn ON OR OFF a subscription, ADD CHANNELS, DELETE CHANNELS. Clear QAM can NOT do that, without a truck roll. truck rolls cost money, a digital stb or even the cheap o DTA adaptors eliminate UNNECESSARY TRUCK ROLLS.

instead of dispatching a technician a week later to your place cus u want the super channel or the movie network, and you getting pissed off why its taking so long, the tech simply turns it on in the SGI and its instantly avaiable on your tv. and since u have a hd box, u get it in crystal clear hd, where if u had the clear qyam, it may be encrypted still.

hope this finally sinks in.



Tracer6

join:2006-10-12
Bowmanville, ON

Well now, I've learned a lot after starting this thread - hoping to make a decision about dropping Rogers.

I've learned (although not understanding all acronyms):

1. The change from analogue to digital is entirely a business decision by Rogers - to improve, not the standard television subscriber experience, but to increase data flow for their Internet and video-on-demand subscribers. I will never subscribe to either. Although I might ask Teksavvy to hook me up to the Net with the Rogers cable instead of DSL on a Bell line, someday in the future. (No Bell Fibe here yet either.)

2. I can either take it or leave it. By that, I mean, I take the standard definition digital box (STB, I think) for our main tv (and lose the ability to record while watching another channel, and suffer from slow channel surfing), or switch to another option (dish or OTA).

3. If I stay with Rogers, I must wire the cable first to the digital box, then to the VCR/DVR, then out to the tv, in order to see content from both. I presume that I can record whatever I am watching at the moment under this hook-up (Duh! - should have thought of it myself, but wires were running through little holes in back of the cabinet).

4. Rogers will actually give me a second, identical remote for controlling their box from different room locations. (One set of batteries supplied, I presume.)

5. Rogers gives you poor quality STB boxes for free, which appears to be my only choice for continuing with their service.

6. Rogers has increased pricing for cable at a staggering rate. (They must be printing money at the head office.)

7. Moving to dish is not trouble free, at least for Shaw, because of the need for hard wired phone connections to each box. (Actually, I see $100 worth of adapters would let the phone signals communicate through the existing 110v wiring, to two dish boxes, without hard wiring.)

8. I can use one OTA (over the air) antenna, on a tower (with rotor perhaps), to share reception amongst several tv in the house, each with its own digital receiver and controller. The initial cost might be high, but the savings could be huge considering the monthly cost for cable and dish.

9. When my analogue cable channels are reduced to only those below 29, the signal for these channels may still exist on the line for a long time. If Rogers kept just a few of these analogue channels active for a cheap price, they might keep a few more customers. (Hence, no need for a truck roll to cut my line.)

10. From another thread, I learned that it is possible to establish a Dish Network account here in Canada. It's a bit tricky (regarding billing and US phone number and adress), but it can be done. (Not my cup of tea!)



sm5w2

join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON
reply to dtv guy

> because a STB can Turn ON OR OFF a subscription, ADD CHANNELS,
> DELETE CHANNELS. Clear QAM can NOT do that, without a truck roll.
> truck rolls cost money, a digital stb or even the cheap o DTA
> adaptors eliminate UNNECESSARY TRUCK ROLLS.

What is the common denominator for ANYONE that has cable TV?

Itin't it the lineup of BASIC CABLE CHANNELS?

Channels 2 to what - 30?

Regardless if they're SD or HD (NTSC or QAM) - EVERYONE gets a set of BASIC CHANNELS don't they? If so, then why would you NOT transmit the basic QAM channels in the clear?

So even if I'm forced to take a box, I can still choose not to use it, and instead I'll connect the cable to every SD and HD tv in the house and they'll all be able to display the basic channels.

The STB is a separate issue. If I don't have a STB because I didn't want one, then of course I can't expect them to be able to perform any changes / additions instantly, electronically.



sm5w2

join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON
reply to Tracer6

> I can use one OTA (over the air) antenna, on a tower (with rotor
> perhaps), to share reception amongst several tv in the house, each
> with its own digital receiver and controller. The initial cost might be
> high, but the savings could be huge considering the monthly cost for
> cable and dish.

You won't need a converter box for OTA for any wide-screen (LCD or Plasma) TV's. Only for older TV's that are not wide-screen or that have a glass picture tube (there are some rare exceptions).

Here is a link to a compass diagram showing what OTA channels are available in Bowmanville:

»www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapp···f8c2f6aa

It looks like you really have no OTA channels within a radius of about 40 miles, but between 40 and 60 you have about 16-18 channels - all of them LOS (line of sight). A moderately large UHF antenna with a pre-amp mounted 30 feet off the ground should pull them in.

As for US stations, it looks like you'd get PBS and CBS and maybe FOX, with ABC and NBC being a toss-up. These would all be Buffalo area stations. TVO, City, Global, CBC look good, but not CTV.



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
reply to sm5w2

not everyone who has a cable into their house is paying for TV service, they pay for INTERNET and PHONE, but they may not be paying for BASIC cable. if they do not pay for BASIC CABLE, then what does roger do? they ENCRYPT THE BASIC cable channels. if you PAY for cable, you will receive a FREE DTA adaptor that will DECRYPT them. This is how it works, its not hard to understand. I dont pay for cable? then I do not receive channels. it makes perfect sense from a consumer and a business standpoint.
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!



yyzlhr

@rogers.com
reply to sm5w2

said by sm5w2:

> because a STB can Turn ON OR OFF a subscription, ADD CHANNELS,
> DELETE CHANNELS. Clear QAM can NOT do that, without a truck roll.
> truck rolls cost money, a digital stb or even the cheap o DTA
> adaptors eliminate UNNECESSARY TRUCK ROLLS.

What is the common denominator for ANYONE that has cable TV?

Itin't it the lineup of BASIC CABLE CHANNELS?

Channels 2 to what - 30?

Regardless if they're SD or HD (NTSC or QAM) - EVERYONE gets a set of BASIC CHANNELS don't they? If so, then why would you NOT transmit the basic QAM channels in the clear?

So even if I'm forced to take a box, I can still choose not to use it, and instead I'll connect the cable to every SD and HD tv in the house and they'll all be able to display the basic channels.

The STB is a separate issue. If I don't have a STB because I didn't want one, then of course I can't expect them to be able to perform any changes / additions instantly, electronically.

Basic channels will still be available without a digital adapter. Only channels that are above the basic tier are being transitioned to digital.


p weezy

@rogers.com

for now



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

this has been talked about to death, and im not sure why people still do not understand how it works?
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!



Chuck sTruck

@teksavvy.com
reply to sm5w2

You can always use channel block for the BET channel. That's what i do. I'd like to pretend the GD channel didn't exist in the first place.



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

whats the GD channel?



nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to Tracer6

said by Tracer6:

7. Moving to dish is not trouble free, at least for Shaw, because of the need for hard wired phone connections to each box. (Actually, I see $100 worth of adapters would let the phone signals communicate through the existing 110v wiring, to two dish boxes, without hard wiring.)

Completely untrue. You don't need a hard wired phone connection to each box. The only time you need that is when you are ordering PPV...I've had the service since 2006 and have had it this way and have no issues so...not sure where you picked this up, just to help you out with your thinking here in regards to Shaw Direct.


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

wow just wow, someone needs to go through all that to run a phone line to a sat receiver? wouldnt it be easier and a lot cheaper to run a rj11 telephone cable along the baseboard to each receiver? damn why didnt anyone else think about that?
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!



TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
reply to nitzguy

Not to mention the fact that you can bypass the telephone line thing by just calling to order your PPV movies. I do believe there is a service charge for that though.
--
Tom



Tkavil

join:2010-07-22
kudos:1
reply to Tracer6

What is this free digital box everybody is talking about?

We have the standard mini-box already and we are being billed 5.00/month for it.

Can somebody explain how to get one? I am located in the Oshawa region.



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

said by Tkavil:

What is this free digital box everybody is talking about?

We have the standard mini-box already and we are being billed 5.00/month for it.

Can somebody explain how to get one? I am located in the Oshawa region.

if u alredy own digital STB u dont need the DTA adaptor, its even more basic than what u got now, its ment for ppl who are less spenders.
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


Tracer6

join:2006-10-12
Bowmanville, ON
reply to Tkavil

Re: [TV] Downgrade to Analogue - NOT!

Although I started this thread, I now realize the subject should be "Forced Downgrade to Digital".

1. Rogers has NOT been forced by the government to switch from analogue CATV to digital boxes, as the manager of the local store told me. This decision is entirely profit driven, in order to increase the digital flow in their cables. A Canada Computers salesman also told me that they are not allowed to downgrade cable customers from their existing service. I think they've found a way.

2. When the digital box is hooked up and activated, you will get the same channels as before, but in the same definition as before - not high definition.

3. You will no longer be able to record a different channel than the one you are watching.

4. The new "free" digital box, besides being a cheap device (not worth the $40 if not returned), also requires electrical power - another zombie power hog that is constantly ON.

5. If your VCR/DVR (recorder/player) is not near the television, you will need to buy a longer piece of coax in order to send the digital box's signal to the recorder, then from the recorder to the tv.

6. Your tv remote control will no longer control the television. I have two identical controllers in different parts of the room. The digital box control can be configured to turn the tv on and off, and to control volume. It controls channel within the digital box only. Rogers said they would give me a second remote control, but not a second digital box so that I could retain the ability to watch one channel while recording a different channel.

7. Two days after I received their letter to obtain a "free" digital box, I got the letter informing me that I was to be charge a higher monthly fee of almost $4.00 (with tax). So much for the "free" box.

8. Don't expect Rogers to lower your bill when they start scrambling analogue. They'll blame you for not "upgrading" to digital.

In conclusion, the change to digital standard definition cable not an upgrade; it is a downgrade from analogue cable. Customers probably think this is an upgrade due to Rogers advertising about high definition digital cable - confusing the issue. HD cable will cost even more. The HD boxes can be bought, but a monthly connection fee will be charged anyway, for each HD box (whether you own or rent).



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

no one said it was mandated by the government. the crtc simply says once rogers hits 85 percent digital penetration they are no longer required to provide analog services, they are not being told they have to shut it down, they can continue keeping it, but since the crtc says they have a choice now, they are simply doing it to free up bandwitth. also digital does not mean hd so please do not get them confused.

actually analog is a downgrade. digital gives u better picture and quality and im not getting paid to say that ,ask anyone they can tell u
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

if 85% of the people are using digital and less than 15 using analog, why keep it? it costs them so much money to maintain it when the amount of people receiving the signals are lower and lower, its inefficient and makes no sense.

rogers shut down analog phone signals for that very reason, usage was so low, everyone migrated to digital, no one wants to go back to analog anymore. i dont see people demanding analog cellphones come back ,.do u? i dunno what country you think you live in, but this is canada, we need to move technology ahead not backwards
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!



Tracer6

join:2006-10-12
Bowmanville, ON

Actually, I've watched the digital channels on my mother's Cogeco box - no difference as far as I can see. I'm not picky, nor do I have a large screen tv. My Panasonic is 720 capable, that's all.
My main objections to this forced conversion are: the loss of control of my television remote control features (like picture-in-picture), the inability to record another channel, the electrical power used by the digital box, the extra wiring to make my VCR work, and the increase in fees (for what?). Oh, I forgot to mention the slow channel changes. I am not confusing anyone concerning digital standard definition signal from the digital box. I stated that customer must pay more for HD from Rogers.

Other choices for HD (high definition digital):
1. Any dish company, like Shaw or Bell.
2. Free HD over the air (like the old VHF/UHF signals, but clearer) by using an antenna and either a newer tv/digital recorder with a built in ATSC tuner, or a $40 tuner box.
3. Bell Fibe, when it is available in your area (but may be a deal only with a package that includes phone, Internet and HDtv).



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

theres not much choice, every other provider is subject to these so called restrictions you speak of also. Can you watch one channel on satelight dish and record the second on your vcr? NOPE

You still need to use the other provider remote for satellite dish companies too,

channel changes on satellight dish is painfully slow, atleast its tolerable on digital cable
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!



Tracer6

join:2006-10-12
Bowmanville, ON

At least the alternatives are cheaper, or free (after all the antenna costs covered).
I wonder how many other people have been told by Rogers reps, that the government is making them do this switch to a digital box.
It is surely a downgrade from analogue. IF only people knew!



TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
reply to Tracer6

Re: [TV] Downgrade to Analogue

I'm excited about this. The sooner they shut off the analogue channels the sooner I can get >100mbps download speeds.
--
Tom



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

im excited about it too



Tracer6

join:2006-10-12
Bowmanville, ON

For those who, for years, have already taken a cable package from Rogers that includes digital HD tv, Internet, and perhaps phone, the performance increase in download speeds might be good. How good? I don't know. No one, with technical knowledge, has posted a comment on this thread indicating just how much more flow the cable "pipe" can accommodate when fully digital, as opposed to analogue and digital at the same time.
I intentionally avoid bundling services, after learning about billing and service practices of the big telcos. I'm staying with Teksavvy for Internet. Hence, my displeasure with losing CATV (ironically, Community Access TeleVision).