alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC | 2x 15A circuits vs. 20A circuits.... I'm redoing my basement and it will be the new area for my entertainment center.
2 computers (Tower + monitor + Speakers)
55" LED TV
Sound system for TV
Wii
HTPC
LAN switch
Router
Modem
Everything will be interconnected physically through LAN, HDMI, RCA audio and some VGA cables too.
I want to give this complete gear the best power feed possible to avoid any noise, humming, buzzing, whatevers. I'll make whatever circuits needed for them.
Ideally I'd need more than 15A circuit for all that stuff (Not that 15A wouldn't do it, but it would probably cause voltage drops when everything is up and running at the same time).
What will be best to avoid any sort of interferences/loops/whatever?
1 x 20A circuit?
2 X 15A circuits? (computers one one, rest on the other)
If I go 2 x 15A circuits, should each of them be on a different leg in the electric panel? (Split-phase 3-wire)
If I go 2 x 15A circuits on different legs, should I use a shared neutral?
I already have proper guidance on HOW to make any of those circuits. Any of them is easy as pie and very little price differnece I just want to know which of these is best for electronics.
Thanks! |
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 IllIlIlllIllEliteDataPremium
join:2003-07-06
Lindenhurst, NY
kudos:7 | not sure it would be a good idea to have half the equipment on different phases, better to have 2x15A on same phase and split equipment load on both lines.
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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC | Not different phase. It's single SPLIT phase, two legs of 120v and a neutral.
Though I do agree that there could be more problems putting things on different legs that are interconnected in multiple ways.
Anyway my project will take months before I get to electrical, so I'll have time to get more confirmations or debates on this. |
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 Channel OnePremium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:2
 ·Connexion Techno..
| reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:I'm redoing my basement and it will be the new area for my entertainment center. I would utilize multiple circuits, but would have all of them on the same hot leg keeping all of the interconnected devices fed from the same 120 hot to neutral, instead of being on two different hots with a potential of 240 between them.
Wayne
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"It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." - Charles A. Beard |
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IllIlIlllIllEliteDataPremium
join:2003-07-06
Lindenhurst, NY
kudos:7 | said by Channel One:said by alkizmo:I'm redoing my basement and it will be the new area for my entertainment center. I would utilize multiple circuits, but would have all of them on the same hot leg keeping all of the interconnected devices fed from the same 120 hot to neutral, instead of being on two different hots with a potential of 240 between them. Wayne what i was trying to say but you said it much better.
well said.
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TheMGPremium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to alkizmo
A dedicated single 20A circuit will be more than adequate for the equipment you listed.
No need to split it up into separate circuits, interference between devices plugged in to the same circuit should not be an issue. If you do run into such problems then one of your devices is not operating correctly. |
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Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to alkizmo
I'd run just one circuit for these. 20A will suffice. Why not just run 12AWG wire and be done with it, the price difference is very small. I'd say in the 1000W range total.
I have 2 high-end computers, network equipment, printers, lights, CRT TV on one 15A circuit with no issues. Even the hair drier doesn't cause the circuit to trip... |
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lutfulPremium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:I want to give this complete gear the best power feed possible to avoid any noise, humming, buzzing, whatevers. I'll make whatever circuits needed for them. Consider a toroidal isolation transformer based AC power conditioner to achieve that goal. 
Plitron, which is a Canadian company, makes the award winning Torus Power product line. »www.toruspower.com/about/
You will notice RM20 BAL model could actually take 240V input and provide absolutely clean 120V/20A capable output on 10 AC outlets. They also have 120V in/out models but 240V in / 120V out models provide a bit more noise immunity because of the down conversion.
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 whizkid3Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:8 | reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:What will be best to avoid any sort of interferences/loops/whatever? Proper wiring. That's all.
said by alkizmo:1 x 20A circuit?
2 X 15A circuits? (computers one one, rest on the other) Up to you. Either should work OK. Why not 2 20A circuits?
said by alkizmo:If I go 2 x 15A circuits, should each of them be on a different leg in the electric panel? (Split-phase 3-wire) If I go 2 x 15A circuits on different legs, should I use a shared neutral? Makes no difference. Shared neutrals are to save money. That's about it. If this is your goal then yes. If not, then no. I wouldn't, but then that's me.
said by IllIlIlllIll:not sure it would be a good idea to have half the equipment on different phases, better to have 2x15A on same phase and split equipment load on both lines.
Considering this is a home, like most homes has a single-phase system; this post makes no sense. Likewise, it would make absolutely no difference if it were three phase and the two circuits were on different phases. On the other hand, if the OP has issues with panel loading, it would make sense to place the loads to better balance the loading. That is about it.
said by Channel One:I would utilize multiple circuits, but would have all of them on the same hot leg keeping all of the interconnected devices fed from the same 120 hot to neutral, instead of being on two different hots with a potential of 240 between them. No need and no benefit, except perhaps for some kind un-needed over attention to safety that will accomplish nothing.
said by lutful:Consider a toroidal isolation transformer based AC power conditioner to achieve that goal. Yes, especially if you feel like you need to throw money away. Seriously, if you're not having power quality problems, don't start worry about fixing what you don't have. Run your wiring; and then test the system. Worry about problems if you do have them.
Seriously, this is going to take months? To run two branch circuits for receptacles? And you want a what, months of debate and discussion, so you can plan out the best way to run two branch circuits? My answer, is run the two circuits. 4 to 8 hours of work at most for non-professional. There is nothing complicated about this that warrants doctoral tomes submitted to scientific bodies for review. |
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 ArthurSWatch Those Blinking LightsPremium
join:2000-10-28
Hamilton, ON | reply to alkizmo
Either way you should be fine. Most ground hums/buzzes in home entertainment centers come from one or a combination of the following:
1. Poorly designed circuitry used on the equipment that is susceptible to noise problems. You get what you pay for, don't expect much from a AV receiver worth $100. Same applies to computers, especially when they use the cheapest sound cards and power supplies possible. Get a nice USB audio interface for your computer or a decent sound card.
2. Cheap AV wiring. Don't buy the cheapest Asian import cables, but at the same time don't buy the ridiculously wasteful "monster" type cables either. Monoprice offers a good balance between quality and cost effectiveness.
3. Poor AV wiring practices. If your wiring looks like a rat's nest, you're begging for trouble. Keep AC power and AV wiring runs separate by at least 6 inches or more as practical.
4. Improperly grounded cable TV feed (this is very common given how sloppy most cable TV installers have become lately).
5. Differing ground potentials in AC power. Unless we're dealing with interconnected equipment at wildly different locations in your house on separate circuits, this is likely the least of your worries. In your case whether you run one or two circuits will be inconsequential with regards to this problem, especially if the runs are identical in length or share the same ground wire (eg. if you were to use 14/3 cable for two circuits). The "bigger" fish are my points above, which are a lot more common. Don't let "split phase" throw you for a loop, it's actually preferred when you're dealing with switching power supplies that are commonly found in most modern electronic devices.
Isolation transformer? Way overkill for an average home unless you're Bill Gates where you have interconnected AV equipment separated by at least hundreds of feet from each other, and even then there are methods using isolation ground systems that work just fine without the need for a special transformer. But in the context of the OP, nope, not necessary. |
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IllIlIlllIllEliteDataPremium
join:2003-07-06
Lindenhurst, NY
kudos:7 | reply to whizkid3
said by whizkid3:said by IllIlIlllIll:not sure it would be a good idea to have half the equipment on different phases, better to have 2x15A on same phase and split equipment load on both lines.
Considering this is a home, like most homes has a single-phase system; this post makes no sense. Likewise, it would make absolutely no difference if it were three phase and the two circuits were on different phases. On the other hand, if the OP has issues with panel loading, it would make sense to place the loads to better balance the loading. That is about it. what i meant, was what you explained about "panel loading" using two "legs", i had explained it incorrectly as im not familiar with the keywords in this profession.
although i understand your profession to a degree, my profession is much different than yours Whiz 
i was trying to express my concern about connecting multiple electronic devices that will be interconnected with each other, with supplied ac power for each device from different "legs", if the ac isolation between those devices is poor for whatever reason.
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ame101
join:2002-05-02
Southington, CT | I'd run 2 20amp and call it a day(just cause i could). I run a home theater setup 67" dlp computer Xbox tivo ps3 computer etc zero issues. |
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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC | reply to whizkid3
said by whizkid3:Seriously, this is going to take months? To run two branch circuits for receptacles? And you want a what, months of debate and discussion, so you can plan out the best way to run two branch circuits? My answer, is run the two circuits. 4 to 8 hours of work at most for non-professional. There is nothing complicated about this that warrants doctoral tomes submitted to scientific bodies for review.
haha no!
It's going to take months BEFORE I actually need to run those circuits.
Running the circuits will only take a couple of hours, thanks to your teachings
What will take months is to finish up a few things (Including the you know what) and have the framing up in the basement. Right now, the framing is only 2 inches thick and the concrete floor needs to be leveled. Once all that is done, then I run the circuits and start putting up drywall. |
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whizkid3Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:8 | reply to IllIlIlllIll
said by IllIlIlllIll:express my concern about connecting multiple electronic devices that will be interconnected with each other, with supplied ac power for each device from different "legs", if the ac isolation between those devices is poor for whatever reason. If you mean the there is more AC isolation when the equipment is on separate legs, then yes - that is true. A complete circuit is only made through the utility transformer providing more impedance and more isolation. The isolation between equipment on the same leg is poorer in comparison. Not sure why anyone would look into this unless there was some problem.
He is just installing branch circuits & receptacles. I'd be more concerned with running the wiring in parallel with wiring supplying motors than anything else. This type of isolation may be wise and easy without needing to go overboard. |
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lutfulPremium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:Everything will be interconnected physically ... LAN, HDMI, RCA audio and some VGA ... want to give this complete gear the best power feed possible to avoid any noise, humming, buzzing, whatevers. Can you kindly explain that goal?
I ask because even if you implemented absolutely perfect 60A capable wiring to feed 10A worth of computer/audio/video equipment, there will be some "noise/humming/buzzing/whatever" on that perfect wiring ... even when everything else in your house is powered down. 
I suggested Plitron/TorusPower mainly because they offer excellent quality power conditioners at very reasonable prices. I put a red mark beside some of the useful features if you (eventually) consider adding a power conditioner to your setup. |
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IllIlIlllIllEliteDataPremium
join:2003-07-06
Lindenhurst, NY
kudos:7 | reply to alkizmo
ummm, this thread appears to be going off the road perhaps ?  |
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ArthurSWatch Those Blinking LightsPremium
join:2000-10-28
Hamilton, ON | said by IllIlIlllIll:ummm, this thread appears to be going off the road perhaps ?
Kinda like hitting a finish nail with a sledge hammer? |
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IllIlIlllIllEliteDataPremium
join:2003-07-06
Lindenhurst, NY
kudos:7 | said by ArthurS:said by IllIlIlllIll:ummm, this thread appears to be going off the road perhaps ?
Kinda like hitting a finish nail with a sledge hammer? or a 4 inch lumber nail to hang a picture ?
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lutfulPremium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
1 edit | reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:What will be best to avoid any sort of interferences/loops/whatever?
1 x 20A circuit?
2 X 15A circuits? (computers one one, rest on the other) It is not possible to avoid any sort of interferences/loops/whatever? using either option ... or any other circuit options such as 1 x 60A or 8 X 15A.
But most probably you do not really care about the highlighted objectives of reducing interference/loop/noise/buzz/hum/whatever. and I digressed thinking about them. 
In that case ... 2 x 15A shared judiciously between your equipments will work much much better than 1 X 20A ... simply because of that 1000W extra capacity to satisfy instantaneous power requirements for the amplifier(s) and other complex dynamic loads in your setup. |
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Channel OnePremium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Connexion Techno..
| said by lutful:In that case ... 2 x 15A shared judiciously between your equipments will work much much better than 1 X 20A ... simply because of that 1000W extra capacity to satisfy instantaneous power requirements for the amplifier(s) and other complex dynamic loads in your setup.
Actually if one was concerned about instantaneous power requirements, it would be best to wire the circuits as 20 amp branches, even if they where only protected at 15.
Also if this was my room to be wired, I would most certainly use EMT versus Romex.
Wayne
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"It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." - Charles A. Beard |
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