dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
9711
share rss forum feed
« speedWhy not here? »
prev page · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · next

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to Davesnothere

Re: Cable companies' Review and Vary of 2011-703

said by Davesnothere:

I expect full well that it WILL remain, but here and now we have even more compelling reasons than ever why it should not, due to today's increasingly widespread and prolific time-sensitive activities such as streamed vids....

You do not need 30Mbps out of your "up to 30Mbps" access to watch a 6Mbps stream from Netflix. If it happens to only perform at 10Mbps at that time, you still have 4Mbps to spare and wouldn't notice if Netflix is the only thing you had going... there is a lot more margin for "upto-ism" on higher speed tiers where people are far less likely to require sustained peak rate.

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23
Do Canadian ISPs really see some AppleTV/Itunes traffic ? Considering how expensive Itunes is for content, I would think there would be very little of this happening.

Since this traffic is "download" instead of stream, then this would be quite different from Neflix.

And isn't youtube mostly download insted of streaming ? (perhaps not at your max download speed, but definitly faster than streaming speed).

What I would be interested in is how ISPs view downloads (short time at max speed) versus 2 hours of streaming at constant 5mbps.

Which has the most impact in the big picture ? Or are they statistically the same from network load once you have a large enough customer base ?


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to InvalidError
said by InvalidError:

You do not need 30Mbps out of your "up to 30Mbps" access to watch a 6Mbps stream from Netflix....

 
True, in MY current case, and I do not even subscribe to NF.

But just last year, I had only a 5Mb connection, and I do not envy the many who STILL do.

Yes, I know that they can view NF at lower res, but is it fair that they would be forced to do that, just to support the oversubcription ratios of their ISP and/or its upstream provider(s) ?

Bear in mind that I also know what your next response will be.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to jfmezei
said by jfmezei:

Do Canadian ISPs really see some AppleTV/Itunes traffic ? Considering how expensive Itunes is for content, I would think there would be very little of this happening.

Since this traffic is "download" instead of stream, then this would be quite different from Neflix....

 
So iTV sends the whole file before it begins to play the video ?

(I HAD heard before that iTunes did.)

YouTube gambles that the buffer which they create in your computer can stay ahead of the FlashPlayer delivering the content to your screen, and YMMV on that, IME.
--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
-
START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.


jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23
If you pause Youtube, it continues to download.

The iTunes product download at fastest possible speed. You might be able to start to play before download is done but it still downloads at full speed instead of streaming it.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
I use AppleTV at home. It also has Netflix built into it. If I rent a movie it asks if I want to watch it, if yes it starts downloading it as fast as it can. You can now rent 1080p movies on it. Works pretty good. Hard on the network though. There's no option to download late at night so I can watch it tomorrow. As soon as you start watching it you have 48 hours to watch the whole thing. Now that AppleTV is doing 1080p, I'm sure others will follow suit. Blockbuster is said to be working on their online stuff.. Google just started a music store online. CBC also if I'm not mistaken? Basically lots of content is being made available in all sorts of ways and people in general will want it when they generally want to view those contents..l with their families and in general in the evenings. On AppleTV I just noticed this new movie, it's called Detachment with Adrien Brode, it's an advanced viewing, I.e. it's on AppleTV before its out in theaters... That's a pretty big change!
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23
AppleTV may be different because it doesn't have storage.

But if you use Itunes on your computer, it will download its own copy of the movie (with DRM limiting viewing for 48 hours) and you can then watch it on any device, any number of times.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
Right, of course. With the new iCloud though, you will surely be able to stream it from the cloud on any of your devices...

For what its worth, I just finished watching "A Dangerous Method" and it's now 4am. Hahaha. *shrug*
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23
Click for full size
downloadShaw Comment···inal.pdf 74,438 bytes
MTS
Click for full size
downloadMTS Allstrea···-703.pdf 233,983 bytes
MTS
Click for full size
downloadLetter to Jo···inal.pdf 63,657 bytes
CNOC
Click for full size
downloadBell Part 1 ···imus.pdf 55,400 bytes
Primus
Click for full size
downloadCRTC- 2011-7···tion.pdf 789,769 bytes
Vaxination
OK, I am putting then here even though Bell is not a cable company, It also R&Ved the 703 decision.

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23
I'll post the Comments on the Rogers R&V later after I got some sleep. Didn't get to file on it.


I LOLd

@videotron.ca
reply to jfmezei
said by jfmezei:

OK, I am putting then here even though Bell is not a cable company, It also R&Ved the 703 decision.

Sounds like you adequately summed up what we discussed here.

Seems like you gave up writing half way through your filing lol I especially like this part (paraphrased):

*reference: The commission can contact me for it, I'm to f'n tired to include it.


I LOLd

@videotron.ca
reply to jfmezei
Good. Seems everyone is more or less stating what we stated here in regards to the bullshit "line conditioning".

I liked how CNOC start off their filing to the CRTC:

It starts off like this:

Dear CRTC:
Bell is gaming the system with inflated new costs and embellished arguments to fill their coffers for absolutely nothing. This is nothing new.

Best regards,

Bill of CNOC

heh, I wonder if that Bill guy laughs out loud when he reads his own filings? I would

+1


More LOLs

@videotron.ca
reply to jfmezei
Click for full size
MTS to the CRTC
This is getting better and better the more I read.

MTS even drew the CRTC a picture! I can't stop laughing at Bell.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
Telus looks dirt cheap in comparison (alongside MTS of course). That ought to ruffle a few feathers.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
said by mlerner:

Telus looks dirt cheap in comparison (alongside MTS of course). That ought to ruffle a few feathers.

Yes. The CRTC will have to raise everyone's rates to match Bell's unless they want to get into a pissing match with the incumbents.

I wonder how much stomach for that Katz has given that his term expires this fall.


Again LOL

@videotron.ca
reply to jfmezei
LOL even Primus made me laugh:

Dear CRTC:

Yes. Bell made investments 1.5 years ago for the benift of us wholesalers and for the benefit of their beloved customers.

Yes.

Get a clue.

Best regards,

Primus.

Damn I bet everyone involved shared many chuckles with these filings!

All except Shaw, which says everything Bell stated is true. We need to charge wholesalers more.

I haven't had a good telecom chuckle in a long time!

TY!


alienzzz
Kill Bell

join:2011-02-17
Verdun, QC
reply to jfmezei
I love MTS allstream.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
said by alienzzz:

I love MTS allstream.

Their reply is pretty damned awesome.

quote:
Further, to the extent that Bell encounters bridge tap when installing HSI, the cable was likely placed in the 70s or earlier and has been fully depreciated and retired from service according to Bell’s depreciation studies and costing methodology. Again, as the Phase II cost is a forward-looking estimate, it is inappropriate and illogical to include any costs attributable to plant that, according to Bell’s methodology, has already been replaced.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to More LOLs
said by More LOLs :

This is getting better and better the more I read.

MTS even drew the CRTC a picture! I can't stop laughing at Bell.

I was somewhat disappointed that the commentary on the right margin wasn't actually in the filing.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

1 edit
said by bt:

said by More LOLs :

This is getting better and better the more I read.

MTS even drew the CRTC a picture! I can't stop laughing at Bell.

I was somewhat disappointed that the commentary on the right margin wasn't actually in the filing.

 
We could submit the annotated graph as an errata correction, spoofing the contact email of the original sender.

It might still reach the CRTC exec's desks.

And/or could it be sent as an attachment to a tweet from an account, or with a hashtag, one which we expect that CRTC follows ?

Doable, anybody ?

= = = = = = = =

OK, sitting down now to read these DOCs - sitting is closer to the floor if I anticipate ROFL.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
-
START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

4 edits
reply to resa1983
said by resa1983:

said by alienzzz:

I love MTS allstream.

Their reply is pretty damned awesome.
quote:
14. Further, to the extent that Bell encounters bridge tap when installing HSI, the cable was likely placed in the 70s or earlier and has been fully depreciated...

 
This is not the 1st time that MTS has accurately and eloquently called BS on B$ELL's costing and other proposals.

I thoroughly look fwd to their submissions and commentaries with the same level of anticipation with which I salivate about JF's.

CNOC too has delivered some great submissions this year.

The next paragraph is also a winner, IMNSHO.
quote:
15. Third, Bell’s application of eligible conditioning costs includes the replacement of terminals at the demarcation point of customer premises or demarcation devices, sometimes known as Network Interface Devices (NIDs).

Bell has been installing NIDs on installations and repair visits for more than twenty years, and the original justification for doing so was the transferal of ownership of inside wiring to customers.

The cost of placing these devices, even if placed during a visit to install HSI, is causal to the provision of primary exchange services (PES), not HSI.

In the event that the Commission determines it is appropriate to include NID placement as a cost causal to HSI, it cannot be double counted in Bell’s cost recovery for PES, and the occurrence rate for NID placement should be reduced going forward compared to the rates claimed in the past.

[Emphasis was added by me. ]

However, I wish that they WOULD replace the not weatherproof by design prehistoric demarc strip on the outside wall of OUR place.

Bell has not fixed ALL of them yet, and ALREADY they are double-dipping on the costs for the first time.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
-
START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.



alienzzz
Kill Bell

join:2011-02-17
Verdun, QC
I also *love* how MTS keeps spitting and spitting on Bell. Plus they own a network based on an identical technology so these guys know what they are talking about.

Now we have good incumbents and evil incumbents. It's quite funny that Shaw started in the good league and now they are trying so hard to get in bed with the bad boys, that they are willing to bootlick as much as possible, only so the truly-evil kids would let them in. Such a shame... picking the dark side.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
said by alienzzz:

I also *love* how MTS keeps spitting and spitting on Bell.

Plus they own a network based on an identical technology, so these guys know what they are talking about....

 
MTS does not need to see what's behind B$ELL's ####s - they already KNOW.

Actually, PShaw only agreed with ONE point of B$ELL's R&V of 703, and said that they were not commenting on the rest.

And I've said before that MTS has a crackerjack legal/regulatory team.

This is just their latest 'WRinging of the B$ELL'.


Very true

@videotron.ca
reply to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

quote:
15. Third, Bell’s application of eligible conditioning costs includes the replacement of terminals at the demarcation point of customer premises or demarcation devices, sometimes known as Network Interface Devices (NIDs).

Bell has been installing NIDs on installations and repair visits for more than twenty years, and the original justification for doing so was the transferal of ownership of inside wiring to customers.

Actually, this is very true.

about 15 years ago, maybe a bit more, Bell had kids (people in training or summer students) going house to house to install these. Everyone on the street I lived on had one installed. The kids said this is Bell's new terminal which was both safer and has easy disconnects that everyone requires now. So I had them put it on the inside of the house. Mine had two test ports for two different phone lines.

So the NID thing is very true and again total bullshit. I didn't think of this. Good point.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
said by Very true :

....So the NID thing is very true and again total bullshit. I didn't think of this. Good point.

 
Aw shucks ! [Dave shrugs and grins ]

It was not my own observation, but I felt that it needed to be repeated here.

And another thing (which IS my observation) :

Why did we even NEED to make part of the wiring the responsibilty of the subscriber in the first place ?!

Cablecos (at least Cogeco) will wire all the way to your computer room and charge no extra, nor do they quibble about whose wiring is whose.

The whole CONCEPT of demarc points is a grandfathered CASH COW of B$ELL's, and it ought to be dismantled.

NIDs or not, it should be up to Bell to send qualified techs who know what to do and how to test. - Cablecos do that.


Ott_Cable

@teksavvy.com
I don't think house wiring for phone jacks are so important anymore. With DECT 6.0 cordless phones that cost no a lot more than a corded one and support multiple handsets, there is almost no point about maintaining or even having internal phone wiring. If anything, a network jack in place of a phone outlet is more useful in the long run.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

4 edits
reply to jfmezei

CNOC's Comments about Bell's R&V

quote:
The Commission did not err in adjusting the Bell Companies' FTTN DSLAM costs.

31. When it comes to labour and DSLAM costs, the Commission decided to cap the labour component of the cost at 40%, and used a longer life of 18 years for the civil work portion of the Bell Companies' labour costs.

These are different factors than what the Bell Companies had proposed, which the Commission arrived at by examining all of the relevant evidence, including comparing the evidence tendered by other ILECs. (MY emphasis here)

 
CNOC is echoing what MTS said, but not quoting specific costing figures.

However, MTS of course has internal access to their OWN equivalent costing figures, to yield such pretty graphs for us to embellish.

Given that CRTC has ALL of the various providers' #### costing info in front of them at once, they are perfectly justified in limiting B$ELL's numbers if those numbers seem too far towards the right side of the (yes, wait for it.........) the 'B$ELL Curve' !

And in doing so, CRTC has unwittingly given the public a peek into what might be behind some of the ####s, as also has Bell by whining about it in an R&V.

In essence, what the CRTC has done is to tell Bell that they are paying too much for their outsourced labour and such, and Bell doesn't like being told that they are wasting money.

Looks like Cope needs to ask some internal questions as to why some of this stuff seems to cost this much - unless of course the figures are total BS, in which case - GOTCHA, B$ELL !


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
 
Part of Bell's whining was to allege that CRTC had ignored parts of their costing info which had been filed in ####.

CNOC said :
quote:
35. The Commission did not ignore the cost information placed on the record of the proceeding by the Bell Companies; the Commission simply disagreed with it in the end, based on a number of relevant considerations, which is something the Commission was entitled to do. (MY emphasis)

 
How VERY true !

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23
reply to Davesnothere

Comments about the Rogers R&V

Click for full size
downloadMTS Rogers T···-703.pdf 179,764 bytes
MTS
Click for full size
downloadShaw Comment···inal.pdf 98,584 bytes
Shaw
Click for full size
downloadCogeco Comme···-703.pdf 104,528 bytes
Cogeco
Click for full size
downloadQuebecor com··· R-V.pdf 53,178 bytes
Quebecor
Click for full size
downloadLetter to Jo···inal.pdf 69,965 bytes
CNOC
Here are the comments submitted about the Rogers R&V


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

1 edit
reply to Davesnothere

Primus' Comments about Bell's R&V

 
Primus is basically taking the same view as CNOC and MTS did - that Bell's R&V does not meet the qualifications of an R&V, since its contents are merely a restatement of arguments made prior to the CRTC's 2011-703 decision.

Although they take 17 pages to say it, their summary at the outset is pretty clear :
quote:
6. For example, while Bell may not agree with the Commission's determinations to exclude network developing and conditioning costs incurred prior to July 2011, Bell's disagreement does not cast doubt on the application of an established basic costing principle by the Commission.

Similarly, while Bell may not agree with the results of the adjustment, the Commission fully and appropriately acted within its discretion in making the adjustments to the capital unit costs.

Nor does Bell's disagreement bring into question the appropriateness of adjustments made by the Commission that are consistent with those made in other proceedings, such as the utilization of a 10 year study period and the consideration of other ILEC costs in setting DSLAM labour costs.

7. It is also clear that Bell’s R&V application also relies on arguments that are largely facsimiles of the arguments put forward in the process that led to TRP 2011-703.

Accordingly, the adjustments disputed by Bell received full and explicit consideration in that proceeding.

8. Accordingly, for all of the reasons set out herein, Primus requests that the Commission deny Bell’s R&V application in its entirety.