How to Amortize the $95 NGN Hookup Fee

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Davesnothere No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages join:2009-06-15 START&Cogeco kudos:6	How to Amortize the $95 NGN Hookup Fee In the unpronouncable forum, a thread mentions : quote: The $1.50/month fee only applies to NEW customers on the DSL2 and DSL6 (for Bell to hook them up to ADSL) For the DSL 12/1, 16/1, and 25/7, there is no $1.50/month fee like above, just a one-time charge of $95 (for the customer to be switched/hooked up to VDSL/VDSL2) and it applies to all new customers. We have noted in the tariffs that B$ELL is offering the Indie ISPs a monthly plan on the $50 fee for setting up Legacy GAS DSL (hence the $1.50 fee above), but they are NOT currently offering the Indie ISPs such a plan on the $95 fee for setting up FIB-like DSL. Mayhaps an R&V (or whatever) should be filed to ask B$ELL to allow such a plan on the $95 fee, so that EVERYONE can get hooked up without such a large cost up-front. My question is "Would doing that be possible and practical ?" To achieve a level playing field between incumbents and Indies, and also one between tiers of Indie DSL service, both fees ought to be treated in the same manner, if they must be charged at all, IMNSHO. What say ye all ?
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 14:23:19 ·
grunze510 join:2009-02-14 Cote Saint-Luc, QC kudos:1	Nothing B$ell does makes sense, so here's some rates with the same ratio. Current: 6/0.8 and below $50 one time install fee $2.25 ongoing for about 2 years (someone correct me if I'm wrong there). $1.50 indefinitely. 6/1 and up $99ish one time install fee Proposed: 6/1 and up $4.45 for about 2 years $2.97 (round up to $3) indefinitely.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 14:36:33 ·
Davesnothere No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages join:2009-06-15 START&Cogeco kudos:6	said by grunze510: Nothing B$ell does makes sense, so here's some rates with the same ratio.... YOUR numbers might make sense for me. We need opinions next from JF, Guspaz, IE, etc., and from any IISPs who might care to chime in.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 14:57:38 ·
InvalidError join:2008-02-03 kudos:5	reply to Davesnothere said by Davesnothere: To achieve a level playing field between incumbents and Indies, and also one between tiers of Indie DSL service, both fees ought to be treated in the same manner, if they must be charged at all, IMNSHO. What say ye all ? The same thing I've been saying for years: if 3rd-party ISPs wanted to, they could arrange their own rates to achieve exactly that result without having to depend on incumbents structuring their wholesale rates that way. ISPs are going to pay that whole $95 either way, deferring payment simply makes ISPs and their subscribers owe interest with added administrative costs to Bell on top of it... might as well internalize this amortization and save the difference.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 15:03:27 ·
grunze510 join:2009-02-14 Cote Saint-Luc, QC kudos:1	reply to Davesnothere Those numbers are assuming an install fee that's exactly $99. I'm not sure what it says on the tariff.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 15:03:30 ·
alienzzz Kill Bell join:2011-02-17 Verdun, QC	And why is the speed profile change post-installation still $99? All these things need to be challenged by CNOC.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 15:05:26 ·

Davesnothere No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages join:2009-06-15 START&Cogeco kudos:6	reply to InvalidError said by InvalidError: ....ISPs are going to pay that whole $95 either way, deferring payment simply makes ISPs and their subscribers owe interest with added administrative costs to Bell on top of it... might as well internalize this amortization and save the difference. I agree with you, but obviously one IISP is not prepared to take that risk on month-to-month customers.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 15:07:35 ·
Davesnothere No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages join:2009-06-15 START&Cogeco kudos:6	reply to alienzzz said by alienzzz: ....All these things need to be challenged by CNOC. Yes, and the CNOC, they DO seem a bit more feisty lately.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 15:08:28 ·
jfmezei Premium join:2007-01-03 Pointe-Claire, QC kudos:22 Reviews: ·ELECTRONICBOX	reply to Davesnothere This is where competition kick in. Different ISPs can have differentiated offerings on how they get paid for the fixed installation costs. Personally, I might prefer $10 for the first 10 months of service instead of $1.50 for the duration of the subscription. For FTTN however, once your residence has gotten it, you shouldn't have to pay another $95 everytime you change ISP since the installation has already been made.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 15:34:37 ·
InvalidError join:2008-02-03 kudos:5	reply to Davesnothere said by Davesnothere: I agree with you, but obviously one IISP is not prepared to take that risk on month-to-month customers. Statistically though, there is no risk unless they lost confidence in their ability to retain customers to the point that they doubt they can afford it even with the $3/month hike on 6M/300GB. (though some of that doubt may be attributable to Bell/Videotron's aggressive triple-play promos.)
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 15:38:55 ·
Davesnothere No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages join:2009-06-15 START&Cogeco kudos:6	reply to jfmezei said by jfmezei: ....For FTTN however, once your residence has gotten it, you shouldn't have to pay another $95 everytime you change ISP since the installation has already been made. Right, or if you decide to change speed to a different FTTN tier. Current flawed tariff allows multiple-dipping by B$ELL in these situations.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 15:41:51 ·
Davesnothere No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages join:2009-06-15 START&Cogeco kudos:6	reply to InvalidError said by InvalidError: said by Davesnothere: I agree with you, but obviously one IISP is not prepared to take that risk on month-to-month customers. Statistically though, there is no risk unless they lost confidence in their ability to retain customers to the point that they doubt they can afford it even with the $3/month hike on 6M/300GB.... Think it's gone that far down the tubes already ?
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 15:46:08 ·
InvalidError join:2008-02-03 kudos:5	said by Davesnothere: Think it's gone that far down the tubes already ? Probably not quite that far but it does feel like there is a certain degree of panic/disorientation in the air with many questionable/odd decisions and TSI stays quiet when asked about them, which does not exactly inspire confidence. So at best, it certainly smells like a failure in change management.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 15:52:31 ·
Davesnothere No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages join:2009-06-15 START&Cogeco kudos:6	said by InvalidError: ....So at best, it certainly smells like a failure in change management. What - change Management ?! Oh, Change management. (Then there's inflection.)
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 15:56:24 ·
andyb Premium join:2003-05-29 SW Ontario kudos:1	reply to Davesnothere I agree the hookup is a bit steep.The same fee for any speed change thou is a crock of shit
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 16:02:07 ·
jfmezei Premium join:2007-01-03 Pointe-Claire, QC kudos:22	Once you go "FTTN" Bell claims that the costs are the same because they will condition the line to be able to reach 25mbps.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 18:24:40 ·
Davesnothere No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages join:2009-06-15 START&Cogeco kudos:6	said by jfmezei: Once you go "FTTN" Bell claims that the costs are the same because they will condition the line to be able to reach 25mbps. 'Condition the Line' ? Every time you change your tier or ISP ? Before I go out in winter, I 'Condition my Head' - aka I put on mon chapeau. Is this much more difficult ?
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 20:45:52 ·
alienzzz Kill Bell join:2011-02-17 Verdun, QC Reviews: ·TekSavvy DSL ·ELECTRONICBOX	Yeah, bell will shampoo the wire all the way to your home, then scrub it really well... "Condition" my ass, it means they will put you on a remote. Which incidentally doesn't necessarily mean you will even be able to get the actual 25 VDSL. So if you're already on a remote and all they need to do is change the speed profile, it's just a fat juicy $100 bill they get to swallow for free.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 22:57:58 ·
jfmezei Premium join:2007-01-03 Pointe-Claire, QC kudos:22 Reviews: ·ELECTRONICBOX	From what Bell stated at hearings, when you order FTTN, they ensure you get the speed you ordered, even if it means fixing wiring, or "conditioning" the line, installing special filters or whatever magic they do. FTTN isn't "up to" sync, it is the sync you ordered, or so they say. And note that for VDLS2 profiles, the performance is closer to stated speed because there is no ATM overhead. Once there is enough reported experiences on what Bell actually does when a line already on a remote is upgraded to FTTN, perhaps we can go to the CRTC and show that the amount of work done by Bell is way less than what Bell bragged about.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 23:06:19 ·
Davesnothere No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages join:2009-06-15 START&Cogeco kudos:6	reply to alienzzz said by alienzzz: ....So if you're already on a remote and all they need to do is change the speed profile, it's just a fat juicy $100 bill they get to swallow for free. LOL I wonder whether the new plastic $100s are any tougher for them to digest than the paper versions ?
	to forum · permalink · 2012-02-03 23:15:37 ·

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