alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC | reply to sk1939
Re: Nexus Smart Switch ATS installation question for backup gen said by sk1939:That wire still looks a little small to be feeding a 200A service considering it should be a 2/0 copper or 4/0 aluminium.
*shrug*
I recently saw 3/0 copper wires and they seemed small enough to fit 3 of them in those cables. |
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 whizkid3Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:8 | reply to sk1939
said by sk1939:That wire still looks a little small to be feeding a 200A service considering it should be a 2/0 copper or 4/0 aluminium. They look small to me as well. It wouldn't surprise me if the service feeders are undersized; simply based on the (IMHO) pathetic looking installation. vircotto  Check the cables for some writing on the jacket and post it here if you can.
So, to answer the original question:
1. The electrician's who came in don't know what they are doing or didn't take the time to learn what product your friend has or are trying to milk you out of extra money to provide what would be less of an installation (with more parts) than doing it the right way in the first place. Find a different electrician. For starters, a lot less material is needed. The wiring will be as complicated or simple as needed, depending on the ATS features used, and what control wiring is necessary.
2. The 200A Nexus Smart Switch ATS should work fine (assuming it is service rated - double check). The ATS should have a 200A utility breaker.
3. To my understanding the ATS has no breaker for the generator. If your generator does not have one - you will need to put one in between the generator and the ATS. For a 20kW generator, that should be about a 125A breaker; but you would have to check the generator manual.
4. Follow the ATS installation instructions. The manual tells you just about everything you need to know. You should read it and understand it first; well before you tell an electrician what you want done. The ATS has a lot of features for load-shed; etc. Wired properly & using the load shed, that ATS and generator could probably serve the entire house (both panels). And have the electrician follow the manufacturer's instructions (as is required by the electric code). This includes running the control wiring in conduit, separate from the power wiring.
5. Replace both of those service feeder cables if they are undersized. (The one that will run to the ATS will need to be replaced, regardless.) And this time, I recommend that the electric code be followed; including protecting them from damage; and securely fastening them to the structure using listed straps, etc., within 1' from each box. |
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| Thanks! I'll check.
One question concerning #3: though the ATS has no breaker for the generator, there is a disconnect on the generator. Does that satisfy #3 or should there be a breaker inside by the ATS panel for that?
Thanks again for your advice! |
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 nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:5
 ·Charter
 ·voip.ms
| reply to whizkid3
The Guardian / Generac / Siemens standby set usually come with a breaker in the set itself.
I agree that the existing install looks a little sloppy. I don't care for USE cable, but I have some on my own house and I'm not about to change it any time soon. The whole service situation looks like it could use a good "going over".
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...because I care. |
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whizkid3Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:8 | reply to vircotto
said by vircotto:the ATS has no breaker for the generator, there is a disconnect on the generator. Does that satisfy #3 or should there be a breaker inside by the ATS panel for that? The ATS is not going to have a generator breaker. The problem I see here, is that there is nothing protecting the generator or the wire from the generator to the ATS, or even the ATS when on generator power. Check again to be sure that the generator does not have its own main circuit breaker. If not, you will have to install one between the generator and the ATS |
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| Okay, I have most of the writing on the cable. This is what I could read without a ladder; I think I got the important part:
... AA-8000 AL TYPE SE CABLE STYLE U XHHW-2 600V 3 CDRS 4/0 AWG UL (1996)
Some of the printing was a bit smeared (like the "8000" and "XHHW" and the last digit of "1996") so it might be off a tad.
P.S. Appropos to nothing, really, but for my last two posts I clicked the "reply" button to whizkid3, yet it didn't indicate that. I wonder why....
Edit: added P.S. |
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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC | AL Type + 4/0 AWG
That's 200A
But I bet Whizkid will have something to say, such as, that might not be the same for what's in between what you read and the underground raceway to the utility.
As for the generator, really, go check your generator's model on generac's website. I only could find one model rated 20kW which has a 100A breaker, but I don't know if it's your model. |
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| If it matters, it's not a very long run from the meter to the panels. It goes right from the meter through the foundation (see pic) and then drops down a few feet to the top of the two panels on the inside of the foundation. |
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nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
| You're fine on the wire. You just need to find somebody that knows what they are doing. Hopefully they will clean things up a tad too.
I would not engage the electricians who submitted the odd bid. It's pretty clear they don't have a clue. I'd call somebody else.
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...because I care. |
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whizkid3Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:8 | reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:AL Type + 4/0 AWG
That's 200A
But I bet Whizkid will have something to say... Grrrr! 
Yeah, that size SE cable is appropriate for residential services and feeders of 200A. (NEC 2011)
Its like they say. One always looks thinner in pictures. |
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| reply to nunya
Thanks again, all!
My friend called around again and found an outfit that had some experience with this smart ATS panel. (Well, they said they had installed one a couple of years ago.)
They sent someone to look at the set up. My friend asked me to get over to his place to back him up (to make sure he gave the estimator correct info) and have a second opinion on whether this guy seemed to understand.
I think we'll have a winner here. (BTW, my friend is much more interested in having it done properly than getting a low bid.) The estimator seemed to ask the right questions, and gave the right answers (based on the great info you guys provided) when we asked questions. My friend should get the bid/proposal by the end of the week or early next week.
The only thing that made me raise an eyebrow was that the estimator seemed to feel us out about having a permit pulled. Of course we said get the permit. But I had a feeling that he would have accepted it if we said no permit. (Everyone seemed to agree that the county says a permit should be pulled.) |
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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC | reply to whizkid3
said by whizkid3:Its like they say. One always looks thinner in pictures.
Nice try buddy!
The camera adds 2 gauges!
»www.slate.com/articles/news_and_···fat.html |
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