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xbell

@cgocable.net
reply to medbuyer

Re: Telephone over CAT6

said by medbuyer:

I only have 1 phone and it resides in a spot near our kitchen where I can wipe it everyday with no wire movement at all.
even using a duster won't make the wire wiggle that much. I guess you have to make a consideration for people who don't clean that much?

Ding ding ding we have a winner and I won't make any money off this guy and it only cost him a bit more money and time.

Of course he won't have any animals in the house, kids or nieces nephews and grand kids, his brother-in-law who drinks too much at the barbecue and stumbles around the kitchen, the busybody mother-in-law who cleans when she comes over, the wife who cleans or any thousand other variables out there in the world who may invade your kitchen.

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

said by xbell :

Ding ding ding we have a winner and I won't make any money off this guy and it only cost him a bit more money and time.

Of course he won't have any animals in the house, kids or nieces nephews and grand kids, his brother-in-law who drinks too much at the barbecue and stumbles around the kitchen, the busybody mother-in-law who cleans when she comes over, the wife who cleans or any thousand other variables out there in the world who may invade your kitchen.

that's not the point...

the point is, if you choose and use the right connector it will work.

and even if you do choose and use it the right connector, if you do have pets, drunk uncles and aunts, nieces and nephews running around like chickens, no connector will survive that chaos.

you think you're RJ11 connector is more secure? I have seen more cheap, plain jane RJ11 break than a better built RJ45 Leviton quickport connector. In fact, I helped a friend replace his RJ11 connector in his wallplate with an RJ45, though his phone was also in the kitchen like mine, the kids and having parties ended up destroying his RJ11 jack / connector.

and yes, contractors like you use the cheapest stuff and make money on it on top of the labor.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

said by medbuyer:

and yes, contractors like you use the cheapest stuff and make money on it on top of the labor.

Many contractors use the proper equipment for the intended use such as this Leviton Quickport RJ11 jack

»www.broadbandutopia.com/lequ6vogrcor.html


nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
·surpasshosting
reply to medbuyer


you think you're RJ11 connector is more secure? I have seen more cheap, plain jane RJ11 break than a better built RJ45 Leviton quickport connector. In fact, I helped a friend replace his RJ11 connector in his wallplate with an RJ45, though his phone was also in the kitchen like mine, the kids and having parties ended up destroying his RJ11 jack / connector.


Leviton makes 6 pin jacks specifically for telephone use.


and yes, contractors like you use the cheapest stuff and make money on it on top of the labor.


Hate to tell you this, but other than Monoprice crap, Leviton is the cheapest stuff. I used Panduit stuff for years, but they became too proud of their product and I had to switch to Leviton in order to compete.
A contractor trying to make money? Gasp! You mean they aren't all charity? Next thing you'll tell me is the Grocer is trying to make money off of groceries. Say it isn't so!

You are arguing with people who do this for a living. How many thousands of jacks have you installed or repaired? There is something to be said for experience.
--
...because I care.


xbell

@cgocable.net
reply to medbuyer

said by medbuyer:

the point is, if you choose and use the right connector it will work. and yes, contractors like you use the cheapest stuff and make money on it on top of the labor.

Which is a RJ11 for phones and as I and many contractors I compete with guarantee their work saving a buck or two is not worth driving back to fix an inferior product. More than the money though is my reputation that I will not sacrifice by using cheap products.

sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10

said by xbell :

More than the money though is my reputation that I will not sacrifice by using cheap products.

+1

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4
reply to nunya

said by nunya:

Hate to tell you this, but other than Monoprice crap, Leviton is the cheapest stuff. I used Panduit stuff for years, but they became too proud of their product and I had to switch to Leviton in order to compete.
A contractor trying to make money? Gasp! You mean they aren't all charity? Next thing you'll tell me is the Grocer is trying to make money off of groceries. Say it isn't so!

You are arguing with people who do this for a living. How many thousands of jacks have you installed or repaired? There is something to be said for experience.

I was trying to make a point where some "newer" connectors can and will work.

I still see a lot of homes use the cheap stuff where the wires are screwed at the back instead of being punched down and where the phone connector doesn't actually lock. in cookie cutter homes mostly.

I agree that Contractors need to make a living but whether they use the same old stuff or the newer stuff is half of which he's reputation lies on.

I guess the contractor who wired our new manufacturing building with newer RJ45 connectors has an excellent reputation then?


whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:9
reply to medbuyer

said by Mr Anon :

We did it because there are jacks that will take booth, not be damaged and last, so its not the wrong jack.

said by medbuyer:

...and how many times do you have to plug and un plug a phone wire from your wall plate that will incure damage to your Leviton quickport connector? Choose your connectors right the 1st time while doing it right the 1st time as well.

said by xbell :

It's any motion on the cord that will allow it to move in the wider socket.

said by medbuyer:

the telephone wire that I have never moved in 5 years now.

said by xbell :

All it takes is that one inadvertent movement.

said by medbuyer:

I only have 1 phone and it resides in a spot near our kitchen where ... no wire movement at all. even using a duster won't make the wire wiggle that much.

So, unfortunately, you guys aren't getting it. It has little to do with 'yanking' or moving the cord & plug (which of course could also damage the jack). Many 6 position plugs, are wider than others or don't have 'depressions' to prevent bending the two unused pins. The plastic contacts the two outside pins on the 8 position jack. That means all it takes to damage the jack, is inserting the plug once. The two outside pins are forced up beyond their range of proper motion and are permanently bent. One time is all it takes. Plug it in and they're damaged. Usually you don't find out until you actually try to use the 8 pin jack for something else that needs all 8 pins. And then you find you have intermittent problems that take all kinds of hell to figure out what's causing it.

Yeah, you could go out and buy 6 pin modular plugs that are made by the same manufacturer and designed to work with the 8 pin jack. And then you could cut off the plugs from the cables that come with your phone, or make your own cables. No one does. And even if one went to this foolish extreme, this does not guarantee that the next homeowner will; or even a visitor. Or a technician plugging in their test light tool.

With everything, there are two ways to do it. There is the right way, typically encompassed in professional standards and practices. Then there is the idiot way. Sometimes known as the amateur way; the redneck way; or the 'Mr. fixit' way. Usually the latter ends up costing more in the long run. You can pick the method you prefer; I could care less how it actually gets done. Like nunya, I am just trying to point out the professional methods; and the problems one could have when the alternate approach is taken.


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom

1 edit
reply to medbuyer

said by medbuyer:

I only have 1 phone and it resides in a spot near our kitchen where I can wipe it everyday with no wire movement at all.

even using a duster won't make the wire wiggle that much. I guess you have to make a consideration for people who don't clean that much?

Lol.. If I ever get into skilled trades, I hope I'll know a couple of people like you.. I'll never run out of ammo and my wife will never run out of makeup in the house, at the cottage or on the boat

Buddy, you keep justifying a sub-optimal solution when people with real knowledge and experience are giving you good advice for free.

Edit: spelling
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3
reply to nunya

said by nunya:

Hate to tell you this, but other than Monoprice crap, Leviton is the cheapest stuff. I used Panduit stuff for years, but they became too proud of their product and I had to switch to Leviton in order to compete.

The best jacks in the industry for telephony use are built by Suttle.

»www.suttleonline.com/catalog/telephony.html

Wayne
--
"It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." - Charles A. Beard

telco_mtl

join:2012-01-06
reply to nunya

said by nunya:

Hate to tell you this, but other than Monoprice crap, Leviton is the cheapest stuff. I used Panduit stuff for years, but they became too proud of their product and I had to switch to Leviton in order to compete.
A contractor trying to make money? Gasp! You mean they aren't all charity? Next thing you'll tell me is the Grocer is trying to make money off of groceries. Say it isn't so!

You are arguing with people who do this for a living. How many thousands of jacks have you installed or repaired? There is something to be said for experience.

I have to agree, ive used IBDN (nord-x), leviton, panduit, seimon and AMP. of the bunch the IBDN were the best, most expensive too, they have never had an issue with rj11 being plugged into rj45. When i was working as an interconnect leviton was considered bottom of the barrel and oftentimes on a job we would yank the levitons to put in seimon or panduit. Of course usually when you are on a job where the cabler used leviton he didnt include service loops so they were pretty hard to terminate and of course 9 times out of 10 the jerk used a cable stapler on the cat-5e too!!

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4
reply to FiReSTaRT

Click for full size
V for Voice, D for Data
here's a snapshot of what we have here in our new manufacturing building. according to our IT guy, the black ones are phone or voice [V], and the white ones are data [D]. the black ones have cat5e behind it, the white uses cat6.

both connectors can take RJ11 or RJ45 since according to him Panduit built this with a "step down" that will accept RJ11 just like what you see here. since it's labeled, don't be foolish to plug in a phone in a port that's for data and vice versa.

even on Panduit's site, says this connector can accept both RJ11 and RJ45. I'm not going to feed you anymore with a link, you guys know how to find that out. My leviton at home looks and works the same as this one.

I'm not disputing everybody's years of experience of doing telecom / low voltage work. You guys can use whatever you like.

I'm done here.

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·callwithus

I was about to suggest that a manufacturer's spec. stating that a six-position plug was compatible with their RJ45 socket was what was needed. I don't doubt that some sockets can, and will, be damaged by that combination but I also can easily see that a manufacturer could choose to make their sockets accept those plugs (including the cheap ones) without damage.



puma

@breuckman.com

I would still use all RJ45 jacks at the wall, so they are all the same for flexibility, and make some telephone cords with RJ45 plugs on the end, so no problems with jack damage and no extra adaptors needed. Use the center pair (blue/white) for the phone line, that pair is not used for 10/100 data so no problems with plugging something into the wrong jack.


telco_mtl

join:2012-01-06

said by puma :

I would still use all RJ45 jacks at the wall, so they are all the same for flexibility, and make some telephone cords with RJ45 plugs on the end, so no problems with jack damage and no extra adaptors needed. Use the center pair (blue/white) for the phone line, that pair is not used for 10/100 data so no problems with plugging something into the wrong jack.

the building i work in we quoted all rj45 jacks in 2001. there are over 600 drops n the building, we regularly have macs that switch one from data to voice and back and never had an issue


jkj860
The Final Frontier

join:2002-01-10
Valparaiso, IN
reply to sr1nath

said by sr1nath:

I am new here and if this belongs to different topic, please move the thread to right sub-forum.

I have a new home almost built. I had opted to wire all the rooms with CAT6 cables (3 homeruns to basement). The installer is going to put a patch panel in basement, marking all the terminations (1, 2, 3 for each room). In each room, there will be a wall plate with 3 RJ45 ports.

My idea is to use, one set of homeruns for broadband internet. I am going to connect the Cable modem output to a (8-port gigabit) switch and connect Port1 (on patch panel) of each room to switch. This way Port1 (on wall plate) in each room will get internet. So far, it makes sense for me.

I want to use second homerun for telephone. I will have the telephone output (Rj11) from cable modem. I need help in purchasing some switch-like hardware, to which I will connect RJ11 (from cable modem) and Port2 of each room (on patch panel). Also, I need suggestion on purchasing an adapter for each room wall plate. I want to plug-in this adapter in Port2 on wall plate and plug-in a telephone to it.

I am not sure if I explained correct. Ask me questions if it is not clear. Please suggest me the hardware I needed, both in basement and in each room, to run telephone lines over existing CAT6 cabling.

I appreciate your help.

I used Leviton products for my house. I ran cat 6 for ethernet and phone and rg6 cable for tv to each room. I made all my own terminations and ran all my own lines. Modular snap in connectors and wall plates in each room. A punch down block in the basement for the phone lines to terminate and connect to my digital voice cable modem. My data lines are connected to my router. Simple stuff and all available at any hardware store. In fact you only need two wires, not 8 for phone lines unless your planning on more than one line or futureproofing.
--
I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant. Nixon


joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
kudos:6
reply to telco_mtl

said by telco_mtl:

said by puma :

I would still use all RJ45 jacks at the wall, so they are all the same for flexibility, and make some telephone cords with RJ45 plugs on the end, so no problems with jack damage and no extra adaptors needed. Use the center pair (blue/white) for the phone line, that pair is not used for 10/100 data so no problems with plugging something into the wrong jack.

the building i work in we quoted all rj45 jacks in 2001. there are over 600 drops n the building, we regularly have macs that switch one from data to voice and back and never had an issue

What if they have a PC?
--
PRescott7-2097


cypherstream
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
kudos:3
reply to sr1nath

Hmm this is an interesting thread. I used all Cat5e modular keystone jacks in my home from Monoprice. I only have a telephone line in 2 of them though. 1 behind the living room TV for DirecTV caller ID on screen, and the other in my office for a multifunction fax machine. The other phone jacks that came with the house are plugged into cordless phones.

So in the office I only connected the blue/blue white wires but it's just because thats the only kind of jack I had. For behind the TV I have cat5e ran because who knew how many ports I would of wanted. You know with video game systems, connected tv's / blue ray players / etc. Just so happened I had 3 in use and a 4th one not, so I patched it over to phone so I'd get caller ID on TV.

I live here so I know what everything is. If I ever sell the place maybe I'll switch out the keystones for RJ11 so they can't "plug" in an ethernet cable to something patched down as phone.