| reply to Gone
Re: 11 killed when truck collides with van in Ontario 11 people in a vehicle...are you kidding..your can finds= these guysy on craiglist or kijji in a heartbeat this is a work related accident mol should be involved |
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 GonePremium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:1 | said by sandyhill :11 people in a vehicle...are you kidding..your can finds= these guysy on craiglist or kijji in a heartbeat this is a work related accident mol should be involved If it wasn't a company vehicle, it's not a workplace related accident. End of story. |
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 LazManPremium
join:2003-03-26
canada | said by Gone:If it wasn't a company vehicle, it's not a workplace related accident. End of story.
Not so cut and dried - if the employer was compensating the owner/driver for the use of the vehicle, it would certainly fall under the MoL mandate; and even if the employer wasn't compensating, but was aware, it could come under the MoL...
The reach they have, when they choose to flex, is unreal. |
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GonePremium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:1 | I can understand the compensation part as it would for all intents an purposes be company time even if you're driving. But merely being aware? My boss is aware when I leave work to go home, does that mean he's responsible if I get T-boned at the corner? |
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LazManPremium
join:2003-03-26
canada | reply to thebaron
If you're driving yourself home, that's one thing, and you're right, generally none of the company's business... Now, if you're essentially running a car-pool; that's potentially a different thing... |
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GonePremium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:1 | said by LazMan:If you're driving yourself home, that's one thing, and you're right, generally none of the company's business... Now, if you're essentially running a car-pool; that's potentially a different thing... Depends on the context. Plenty of people car pool, but that doesn't mean that it is an employment situation.
I see what you're getting at, but let's just wait to see what comes out of the investigation. Seasonal workers like these guys are closely knit groups who not only work but live their entire lives together while they're here in Canada. It is not inconceivable that they would utilize shared transportation outside the scope of their employment. If you've ever been to the No Frills or Freshco on Bunting Road, you'd know what I mean. |
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| reply to Kitlope
While I'm not saying I agree with the knee-jerk "lets ban the vans" reaction, they are significantly "less safe" than a bus specifically designed to transport people.
These vans are NOT buses; that is, these vans do not have to meet the construction standards that a "real" bus does, in terms of body construction method and strength, center of gravity, emergency egress, window strength, and protection of passengers. This is one of the reasons they are popular for this size of group, as without these features, they are much more affordable than a proper bus.
For examples of the robust construction of a real bus, see picture on page 10 of this school bus after impact from dump track @ 70 kph: »www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2000/HAR0002.pdf ; no fatalities. Another crash, 75kph: »www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2011/HAR1103.pdf , pics start on p4, two buses vs. pickup vs. transport. One fatality in the buses. (To contrast, the pickup is pictured on p10.)
Design and material requirements for real buses exceed the requirements for cargo-type vans (even when they are retrofitted as 15 passenger vans).
Also common in the various 15-passanger bus accidents are operator issues, such as tires not inflated correctly and operators lacking experience; these vans have handling characteristics which vary depending on the vehicle load, and do not drive like a "family van" or SUV. They also have a tendency to roll, and ejection is very common during accidents. For example, in this accident: »www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2011/HAR1102.pdf the only survivors in the van were two children who were strapped into child seats. Others were ejected during the accident.
NTSB Safety Alert »www.ntsb.gov/doclib/safetyalerts/SA_001.pdf
NTSB Report »www.ntsb.gov/doclib/safetystudies/SR0203.pdf |
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LazManPremium
join:2003-03-26
canada | reply to Gone
said by Gone:Depends on the context. Plenty of people car pool, but that doesn't mean that it is an employment situation.
I see what you're getting at, but let's just wait to see what comes out of the investigation. Seasonal workers like these guys are closely knit groups who not only work but live their entire lives together while they're here in Canada. Absolutely agree - I lived in a farming town; and the same group from Mexico has been coming up for the corn and potato harvest for easily 15 years... They travel everywhere in town together. |
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 MashikiBalking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
 ·Bright House
·TekSavvy Cable
| reply to Gone
said by Gone:Depends on the context. Plenty of people car pool, but that doesn't mean that it is an employment situation.
I see what you're getting at, but let's just wait to see what comes out of the investigation. Seasonal workers like these guys are closely knit groups who not only work but live their entire lives together while they're here in Canada. ...
These guys are pullers(chicken and turkey), well known in the woodstock area. I have a friend who's seen these vans, and I've seen them myself. They're company paid drivers, they've fired drivers before who complained about unsafe vehicles as well. It wouldn't be the first time they pack them over capacity. And it wouldn't be the first time that someone without a legal license would be driving them, and it sure wouldn't be the first time that they would be driving one of them where it would be an unsafe vehicle either.
They should be commerical vehicles but I'm pretty sure they're just skating right along the edge of the cvor on it, or openly flaunting the rule on them. I'll skip the parts about where they've pulled up to service centers around here and the entire party in the vehicle has been trashed out on drugs or alcohol too. But, yeah well known? Yep. Problems with these vehicles in the past? Yep. Problems with the drivers before? Yep. Known to have issues? Yep. |
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GonePremium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:1 | It's been said that the whole reason why Ontario allows you to pack more people into a car than there are seat belts and why it is still legal to pile people into the back bed of a pickup truck is because of seasonal workers. They pile them into the backs of pickup trucks on the west-end of St. Catharines, and the vehicles are so old and rusted out that you wonder how they can still be driven.
Nothing you said surprised me, and I wouldn't be surprised if it were true that there was something illegal about the way the van was being operated. It just doesn't make sense to jump to conclusions without knowing the details. |
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| Driver of van that crashed ran stop sign, didn't have licence The driver, David Armando Hernandez Blancas, 45, was one of the workers killed in the crash and had been in Ontario for some time, living in New Hamburg, not far from the crash site. He had an Ontario driver's licence, but not the type required to drive a van of that size, investigators said.
»ca.news.yahoo.com/prayer-planned···151.html |
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MashikiBalking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON Reviews:
·Bright House
·TekSavvy Cable
| reply to Gone
Re: 11 killed when truck collides with van in Ontario said by Gone: It just doesn't make sense to jump to conclusions without knowing the details.
True enough. I haven't heard anything yet, but I'm off for a few days. I did hear that they dispatched 2 teams late last night to tear through everything though. We'll find out in time, or not at all if the media doesn't care to follow the story. |
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