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FF4me

@verizon.net

ITC Lawyer: Barnes & Noble Didn't Infringe MS Patents

Re: »Barnes & Noble Wants DOJ Probe Re: Microsoft Patent Tactics

Some Really Good News for Barnes & Noble; and Microsoft Withdraws Another Patent by pj - February 07 2012:

The big news being reported by Bloomberg* is that Jeff Hsu, a staff attorney at the ITC, said in an interview he will be recommending that ITC Judge Theodore Essex find Barnes & Noble has not infringed three Microsoft patents. Essex rules in April [April 27, 2012]on that.

If I were a FUDster, I'd write that this means Barnes & Noble has prevailed, but I just tell you the truth, which is that this is one step in a longer process. It is, undeniably, however, fabulously good news for Barnes & Noble.

It is also not a total surprise, in that the quality of Microsoft's patents is pitiful. It may also explain why Microsoft keeps dropping patents from the case. Microsoft says it's doing it to "streamline the investigation"...

Microsoft typically does not allow cases to reach a final decision if it thinks it might lose. That way, the claims live to fight against the next victim, I guess. So what I believe is that it is dropping the '522 patent because it's a stupid patent that won't survive a close examination, but it might come in handy in private negotiations over a license if folks aren't paying close attention or who'd just rather pay than be sued.

*
said by Bloomberg :

The case is part of a strategy by Redmond, Washington-based Microsoft to push Barnes & Noble into paying patent royalties for the Nook, which runs on Google Inc.’s Android operating system. Microsoft claims all Android devices use its technology and has said it collects fees on 70 percent of Android smartphones in the U.S.

Barnes & Noble has refused to pay Microsoft and complained to the government about its adversary’s tactics. Microsoft "uses these patents to demand that every manufacturer of an Android-based mobile device take a license from Microsoft and pay exorbitant licensing fees," Barnes & Noble said in a trade commission filing.

Essex has thrown out the patent misuse claim, leaving only the question of whether the patents are valid and have been infringed.


Kearnstd
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what "technology" does MS have? oh let me guess since its software patents its likely something dumb like "Use of icons to represent programs"
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firephoto
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The patents they're claiming or the specific parts of them are pretty vague and there's trivial prior art to them too. The best thing of all this is B&N called them out and specifically named what the patents were which nobody else had done and just signed on Microsofts dotted line, wrote a check and got their COE stickers for Windows at a discount.

There aren't that many OEMs that haven't signed off on this deal with MS but most of them also had Windows business with them anyway so there exited the cozy friendly relationships that some of their employees fostered.
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FiReSTaRT
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reply to Kearnstd

said by Kearnstd:

what "technology" does MS have? oh let me guess since its software patents its likely something dumb like "Use of icons to represent programs"

I think one of them involved using a scroll-bar.. And I really WISH I were kidding
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If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
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markofmayhem
I can haz competition?
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said by FiReSTaRT:

said by Kearnstd:

what "technology" does MS have? oh let me guess since its software patents its likely something dumb like "Use of icons to represent programs"

I think one of them involved using a scroll-bar.. And I really WISH I were kidding

I hope you are kidding, because it doesn't involve a scroll-bar... at all. There do exist some well placed-cut-and-dry "software" patents, this doesn't appear to be a case using them. Solid "correct/incorrect" is muddy, yet again, in this case like many of the others riddling our courts today. An excellent, no-spin breakdown of the patents, the supposed infringement, and theorized defense exists on arstechnica:

»arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news···alid.ars
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FiReSTaRT
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I may have misread some things, but they definitely patented "universal scrolling" and scrolling up and down a page by pushing a button »www.zdnet.com/news/microsoft-pat···n/218626



FF4me

@verizon.net

reply to FF4me
Barnes & Noble seeks to reverse ruling in Microsoft patent flap - February 9, 2012:

Barnes & Noble is asking the U.S. International Trade Commission to reconsider its decision last week to to dismiss Barnes & Noble's "patent misuse" defense in its case against Microsoft.

A motion, filed with the agency by Barnes & Noble lawyers yesterday, asks the agency to review the ruling by Administrative Law Judge Theodore Essex, which the company says "rests on both erroneous conclusions of law and a misstatement of the facts." The bookseller argues that the ruling doesn't address its arguments or analyze them under the appropriate patent laws.

In the new filing, Barnes & Noble also blasted Microsoft's tactics of seeking licensing fees from device makers that use Google's Android mobile operating system, which powers the Nook devices.

"Barnes & Noble asserts that Microsoft's conduct in connection with its 'Android licensing program,' when examined as a whole, constitutes patent misuse because through this conduct Microsoft is leveraging trivial patents--patents that could otherwise easily be worked around--in order to charge licensing fees for products that do not infringe any Microsoft patents at all," the company said in its filing.

Both Barnes & Noble and Microsoft declined to comment on the filing.

Groklaw has more details:

Barnes & Noble has now filed a petition for review of the order on the following bases:

The ALJ’s decision rests on both erroneous conclusions of law and a misstatement of the facts. Rather than reviewing all facts in the light most favorable to Barnes & Noble, as is required under ITC precedent, the ALJ’s decision actually mischaracterizes Barnes & Noble’s factual allegations (and the evidence supporting them) and, indeed, simply overlooks the central basis for Barnes & Noble’s patent misuse defense.

Consistent with the Federal Circuit’s en banc decision in Princo Corp. v. International Trade Commission, 616 F.3d 1318 (Fed. Cir. 2010), Barnes & Noble alleges and has adduced evidence demonstrating that Complainant Microsoft Corporation (“Microsoft”) has impermissibly “leveraged” or broadened the scope of the patents-in-suit through its “Android licensing program”.
But the most explosive section is where Barnes & Noble describes what Microsoft said to them when they approached Barnes & Noble with a demand that they pay for a patent license:
“And what they basically told us was, it doesn’t matter if you have defenses, whether you don’t infringe, whether our patents are invalid, you’re going to need to take a license, because there’s no way that you can get out of our grasp, that we have so many patents that we could overwhelm you.”
The document says that Microsoft demands that all OEMs take a license from them and pay for all Android phones whether or not they actually infringe.
Patent misuse is characterized as a patentee’s act of “impermissibly broaden[ing] the ‘physical or temporal scope’ of the patent grant with anticompetitive effect”.
Barnes & Noble cites a case, Zenith Radio Corp. v. Hazeltine Research, Inc., 395 U.S. 100 (1969), where the Supreme Court ruled as follows on similar facts:
“We hold that conditioning the grant of the patent license upon payment of royalties on products which do not use the teaching of the patent does amount to patent misuse”.
And that is exactly what Barnes & Noble says Microsoft is doing.

...more analysis at Groklaw.


FiReSTaRT
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quote:
“And what they basically told us was, it doesn’t matter if you have defenses, whether you don’t infringe, whether our patents are invalid, you’re going to need to take a license, because there’s no way that you can get out of our grasp, that we have so many patents that we could overwhelm you.”
And that's how our current patent laws foster innovation
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If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


Maxo
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said by FiReSTaRT:

quote:
“And what they basically told us was, it doesn’t matter if you have defenses, whether you don’t infringe, whether our patents are invalid, you’re going to need to take a license, because there’s no way that you can get out of our grasp, that we have so many patents that we could overwhelm you.”
And that's how our current patent laws foster innovation

I still don't understand why nobody is going after these guys for racketeering. Put a few MS guys in the slammer and see if this kind of behavior continues.
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dave
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reply to FF4me
The real question here is, WTF was the patent examiner thinking when he granted patent 5,889,522?

It seems to boil down to:
a) We made 3 handy new controls
b) **and we put them in the operating system**

A fair amount of text is spent repeating (b) -- as if that contributes to a significant new invention.



FiReSTaRT
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reply to Maxo

said by Maxo:

I still don't understand why nobody is going after these guys for racketeering. Put a few MS guys in the slammer and see if this kind of behavior continues.

They are not evil pirates or terrorizers. They are honest businessmen, respectable members of the community, creating jobs wherever they go (mostly in China)
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


nwrickert
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reply to dave

said by dave:

The real question here is, WTF was the patent examiner thinking when he granted patent 5,889,522?

I don't think they are doing much examining. They seem to be leaving that to the court cases.
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Kearnstd
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reply to FF4me
first rule of modern computing I guess is "If at first you cannot beat them at innovation, Then sue them"
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FF4me

@verizon.net

reply to FF4me
Judge: Microsoft’s Android tactics were ‘hard bargaining,’ not patent misuse:

We learned a couple weeks ago that Barnes & Noble lost a key preliminary decision to Microsoft in their patent dispute. A new court filing explains the judge’s reasoning, and sheds light on some of the legal issues behind Microsoft’s effort to collect patent royalties from Android device makers.

Theodore Essex, administrative law judge for the International Trade Commission, wrote in his Jan. 31 decision that Microsoft’s negotiations with Barnes & Noble over the use of Android in the Nook were “certainly hard bargaining,” but he concluded they didn’t qualify as patent misuse.

Even assuming that these transactions and the related evidence establishes that Microsoft is bent on eliminating Android as a competitor, the mere fact that Microsoft is targeting Android for destruction is insufficient to establish an antitrust violation let alone patent misuse,” he wrote.

The judge’s ruling was previously noted in the court docket, but the text of his decision wasn’t initially made public. A redacted version was filed this week: PDF, 18 pages.


TuxRaiderPen

join:2009-09-19

said by FF4me :
Judge: Microsoft’s Android tactics were ‘hard bargaining,’ not patent misuse

Its clear this judge needs to retire like the head patent troll judge in tx.

said by FF4me :
The judge’s ruling was previously noted in the court docket, but the text of his decision wasn’t initially made public. A redacted version was filed this week: PDF, 18 pages.

I see no need for any redaction at this point, just guessing from the content around it centers around amounts of in the negoations, SORRY PATENT TROLLS! Thats not trade secret, pretty much the only thing that should be redacted is if you can prove its of NATIONAL SECURITY, and no business transaction will ever meet that.


firephoto
KDE
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Brewster, WA

They probably redacted all the references to specific things msft got mad about b&n talking about specifically that started this fight.
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