Broadband Tech > Security > Security > FBI:paying cash cup of cofee: 147;Potential terrorist activity14

reply to dave

Re: FBI:paying cash cup of cofee: 147;Potential terrorist activi

reply to Romney2012

quote:

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Protection from lawsuits.

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reply to Zyrtec
I just had a rather funny thought and went back and re-read the flyer before bringing it up.

And this is: Just what 'class' of people in the US are most likely to be flagged by an overzealous application of these guidelines? And then it struck me:
• Persons engaged in law enforcement at the national, state, or local level.
• People involved in national defense including uniformed personnel, civilian employees of the Department of Defense, and defense contractors, and
• Those people involved in other intelligence and national security fields.

Now, being in the DC Metro area, I would have to admit that we have a surplus of random persons falling into one of these three categories here. And they tend to congregate at businesses where they can get internet access when away from their office or duty station. But, and even taking the surplus into account, these are the people most likely to be flagged by these guidelines!

When this hits the fan, I am really glad I'm not the FBI yahoo that instigated this program without thinking it through a bit better.
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris

reply to dave

T-Mobile (alone!) lists 15 affiliated internet hotspots (»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotspot_%28Wi-Fi%29 ) within a 5-mile radius of where I live, which is what I maintain the FBI should have intended to be included, whether it did or not. These are a robust mix of coffee shops, hotels, and bookstores. There are none of the fast food places, libraries, or universities listed by T-Mobile, which are likely serviced by other internet service providers. By contrast, the number of places offering internet connectivity that characterize themselves as internet cafes? Exactly one, according to a Google search, within this 5-mile radius. If I were the FBI, I would certainly have intended to include internet hotspots.

So, fatness, are you maintaining that the FBI screwed up in characterizing the businesses of interest or that they have some specific reason for excluding everything but internet cafes, mostly defined along the lines that dave indicated?
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris

But here's the thing - most of the flyer only makes sense for businesses where customers are using computers that are owned by the business. The local coffee-shop employees aren't really in a position to know what some guy with his own laptop is doing.

Yes, there are not many 'internet cafes' in the USA. It's a dead business model. I therefore conclude that the FBI has produced a pamphlet that is a little behind the times.

I'm not following you here, dave (rather obviously). Could you elaborate on why you think that most of the flyer only applies to businesses that own (or lease) the computers?

For that matter, what about university libraries?
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris

quote:

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Activities on Computer indicate:
* Evidence of a residential based internet provider (signs on to Comcast, AOL, etc.)
* Use of anonymizers, portals, or other means to shield IP address
* Suspicious or coded writings, use of code word sheets, cryptic ledgers, etc.
* Encryption or use of software to hide encrypted data in digital photos, etc.
* Suspicious communications using VOIP or communicating through a PC game

Use Computers to:
* Download content of extreme/radical nature with violent themes
* Gather information about vulnerable infrastructure or obtain photos, maps or
diagrams of transportation, sporting venues, or populated locations
* Purchase chemicals, acids, hydrogen peroxide, acetone, fertilizer, etc.
* Download or transfer files with ¡§how-to¡¨ content such as:
- Content of extreme/radical nature with violent themes
- Anarchist Cookbook, explosives or weapons information
- Military tactics, equipment manuals, chemical or biological information
- Terrorist/revolutionary literature
- Preoccupation with press coverage of terrorist attacks
- Defensive tactics, police or government information
- Information about timers, electronics, or remote transmitters / receivers

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reply to jvmorris

fatness,

What dave and I are (apparently) disagreeing about is just what is an internet cafe. As far as I can tell, the FBI does not define or characterize the term, the Department of Justice does not either. Apparently, there is no SIC or NAICS code for 'internet cafe'.

Your first statement is therefore little more than a tautology lacking much in the way of substance.

I'm curious just how they then distributed the flyer to 'internet cafes', which there seems to be no consistent, never mind comprehensive, way to identify .

Of the nine Starbucks that provide Wi-Fi (only) access nearby, many use the keyword 'internet cafe' as a search term on their websites. They are, therefore, self-characterizing themselves as internet cafes. On the other hand, they are not relying exclusively on computers that they provide (be they owned or leased) and their revenues are hardly dominated by sales of web access services.
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris

reply to dave
While Joseph raises good points about the breadth and descriptions, I also agree with Dave - I can pick out several things that by themselves are ridiculous if taken as reasonable indicators of terrorism by themselves. I'd guess that the paper is aimed at operators of commercial internet access sites and could even be designed for an international audience where internet cafes are more prevalent.

However, reading the paper like an investigator, I'd consider the whole document and look for patterns of deception or abnormal conduct before spending even a second on it.

The state and federal people I know that are in JTTFs have stacks of cases on their desks and a workload that would preclude any significant time being spent because aunt Minnie called to report she saw a swarthy Middle Eastern guy pay cash for his latte at the local Starbucks.

reply to jvmorris
I haven't looked, but I bet the FBI doesn't define "tattoo shops" either.

I'm simply arguing based on my understanding on what an "internet cafe" is -- it's a place where the business is selling access to the internet, not access to coffee.

reply to EGeezer
First, loved your little narrative snippet.

reply to Zyrtec
When a business, be it an Internet Cafe (though there are none in my metro area) or one with a WiFi hotspot (there are many locally), gets a circular like this, what will really happen? The owner will open the mailing, read it, and (if he's feeling especially cooperative and "patriotic") might point it out to his employees or even post it on some wall behind the counter. That is, if he's not too put off by the thirteen other "notification" mailings he's recently received from the state Workman's Comp bureau, OSHA, the Social Security Admin, the IRS, the local board of zoning, the board of health, his several insurers, those three notices from the national chain to which his franchise reports, and the half dozen "missing child" posters that have all just come his way. Will he himself actually study it, parse out the gist of it, and internalize the principles hinted at therein? He probably lacks the time, focus, or interest to become an "investigator"... he's an owner of a small business or a manager of a chain outlet - so such a result is more than doubtful.

This has the earmarks of every similar fruitless initiative from World War I and II days and other later eras: variously arouse segments of the populace, get all those countless eyes working for 'the cause', encourage "reporting" of 'suspicious' individuals (called 'denunciations' in another place and time), and make all the citizens believe they're key players on the team at war with ____ (fill in the blank). But the real purpose was always the latter - get the folks more solidly behind the authorities and those in power through a sense of participation. The unintended consequences (they're always present, aren't they) were to deluge the reporting authorities with myriad nonsense "observations" and to smear the reputations of (or at least cause grief or inconvenience to) a number of innocent victims.
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"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775

reply to jvmorris

reply to Blackbird

reply to Zyrtec
I've done a bit of hunting for the original source for the PDF, looking in TLO and JRIC websites. I was unable to find it as a public distribution form aqny "official" source.

The layout looks consistent with some flyer or other presentation material that might be handed out at a fusion seminar.

It would be interesting to see to whom jiirc, tlo or FBI actually distributed it. I suspect they didn't wallpaper it out to the general public.