Security → FBI:paying cash cup of cofee: 147;Potential terrorist activity14

It "suggested" some quite stupid reasons for being "suspicious".

Why are you claiming internet cafes are a dead business model? We have quite few on this island. What are you are expected to do if your computer suddenly dies? Not everyone has multiple computers in their homes (especially folks without big families) and most folks do NOT have cell phones that access the internet (and many, like myself, don't have cell phones at all). So, you may need an internet cafe. What if you are on vacation and, like me, don't have a laptop and need a computer? I can't imagine how Internet cafes could be a dead business model. I'd much rather use an internet cafe on vacation than have to cart a laptop around (even one of the new ultra books that is lightweight...you still have to keep track of it and lock it in a safe in your hotel room, etc. Much simpler, and less worry, to just pop into an internet cafe.

I say they're a dead business model because there's not one round here that hasn't gone out of business. Clear enough indication, eh? It's not a matter of "do people need to use computers?" but "can you charge enough to pay the bills?".

With all of the dancing about on the head of a pin regarding the definition of the phrase "Internet Café" going on in this thread (and whether serving coffee is relevant), I thought that it might actually be useful to post the definition with a brief etymology of the word "café".

That is the definition of 'cafe'. Here is the definition of 'internet cafe':

»oxforddictionaries.com/d ··· t%2Bcafe

quote:

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noun

a simple cafe in which customers pay to use computer terminals to access the Internet.

---

You can't always break a phrase down into its separate words to figure out the meaning. In the same region of the language, consider 'cafeteria plan'

Ah, but your posted definition uses"a simple cafe" as part of its definition. A simple cafe may serve many things in addition to coffee, including internet access. I have personally installed internet access kiosks in a number of establishments (including cafes that served coffee and light meals), so is an internet cafe per se forbidden to serve coffee (or other refreshments) by your interpretation?

I have visited a number of "internet cafes", and the serving of refreshments and light snacks (including coffee) was part of the available services at those establishments. Even the public library version of an internet cafe will often have vending machines somewhere in the buillding to sell coffee and other refreshments in addition to internet access kiosks . Ditto for such places as the former Kinko's internet access kiosks, and the internet access kiosks available in many hotel lobbies.

Are you seriously implying that any establishment that calls itself an "internet cafe" is not permitted to offer any service to its customers other than internet access? And if it does, it is not really an "internet cafe"?

I can remember from the distant past that was my youth, that many (most) local cafes offered music (juke boxes), entertainment (pinball), and sometimes even telecommunication terminals (pay phones) in addition to coffee and light meals. I won't go into a discussion of what products/services were sometimes served in/from the back room. Did offering products/services other than coffee and light meals disqualify those establishments from calling themselves cafes? A simple cafe (or "internet cafe") usually serves more than just one thing for their customers.

Mele20,

If we agree to use the definition of "internet cafe" that dave has referenced, then dave was simply making a statement of observed fact, not rendering a judgment on the situation.

From the perspective of any of the businesses providing internet access services to its customers, the costs of using the 'internet cafe' business model are considerably higher than the costs of other options such as wireless hotspots, for which the customer provides the 'terminal', i.e., a smartphone, tablet, Wi-Fi enabled game box, netbook, or laptop (and possibly a few e-book readers, also). Indeed, wireless hotspots are now so inexpensive that many business provide them as 'free' to attract customers into their establishments.

From the customers' perspective, many of them already have (and travel with) the requisite equipment. Alternatively, they can pick up a used laptop off CraigsList along with a Wi-Fi dongle for a good deal less than $100. Not only can the equipment be used for other purposes, most security conscious individuals feel far more comfortable when the device being used to connect to the internet belongs to them, rather than some firm whose privacy and security policies are always open to question.

And, of course, for the half-way competent terrorist or subversive (the ostensible target of this flyer, of course), the attractiveness of using a Wi-Fi hotspot rather than an internet cafe for their activities should be quite obvious.

While we're on the subject, where's the CraigsList flyer issued by the FBI?

Just out of curiosity -- these establishments using internet kiosks that you have either visited or installed, do they take cash payments?

Are you sure that CraigsList is not actually an FBI honeypot?

The kiosks that I installed, were self service, and they would take coins, paper currency, or credit/debit cards. The ones I have utilized (that were not my clients), would usually either take a credit/debit card swipe, or time could be purchased from the sales counter (cash or credit) with sometimes, a token or in-house magnetic swipe card being issued to be used with the kiosk.

No, of course not. All I'm saying that if its primary business isn't to charge people to use its (not their own) computers for net access, it's not an internet cafe, and therefore is not one of the places for which that FBI pamphlet was written. Starbucks is not an internet cafe. The bookstore is not an internet cafe. Etc.

Now you mention it, I *have* seen internet-access kiosks at both Logan and Heathrow. Though I wouldn't call them "internet cafes", since they're just dropped down in the public waiting areas and you have to buy your coffee elsewhere.

Yes, those are internet kiosks, not internet cafes, I agree.

For those who are interested, check out »noise.heathrowairport.co ··· 20a____/ or go to www.boingo.com, where you can likely find a rather extensive list of internet access points pretty much across the world. (Their little app actually can come in handy.) Few, if any, of the thousands of locations listed can be strictly characterized as 'internet cafes'.

And again, I maintain that, if it really was the intent of the FBI to so narrowly target the audience for this flyer, they screwed up.

Rather reminds me of the old joke about the somewhat inebriated golfer who wildly hooked his ball into the rough and then proceeded to methodically search for it down the fairway to the green. When asked by another member of the foursome why he was searching the fairway rather than in the rough, he replied that it would be much easier to find the ball on the fairway. (Well, something along those lines.)

(Also drunk searching for lost keys under a lamppost).

Sure, the flyer is too narrow. But let me recall why I've led us off in the weeds here: the OP, or perhaps the infowars web site, characterized the internet-cafe pamphlet as the FBi saying "paying cash for a cup of coffee = potential terrorist activity", and I say that's not a reasonable précis.

I have to also wonder how they decided which establishments would qualify as "internet cafes" for flyer distribution. If they used either traditional paper or on-line yellow pages, such places as Starbucks, Panera Bread, and Bean Central are prominently listed (paid advertisements) in the "internet cafe" business category (at least in this area). Of those three businesses, all are primarily more or less traditional coffee shops, with only Bean Central actually offering on-line computer terminals and gaming consoles in some of their stores.

Well, let me try to respond to that without creating another wild goose chase in the process.

First, having worked with the FBI for many years, I can speculate (and hopefully somewhat accurately) about how these flyers came to exist (for all 25 indicated business enterprise categories).
As part of the SLATT/SAR programs, some bright bulb said "Gee, I think it would be a good idea if we drew up a set of guidelines for various kinds of businesses indicating what kinds of behavior might indicate that a customer is a potential terrorist or subversive. Then, if they observed someone engaging in these kind of behaviors, they'd know to pay some attention to them and report them to us." And so they did. Unfortunately, I suspect that the original effort produced rather short lists of behaviors that would really lead a business owner/manager/employee to identify a 'person of interest'. The result, therefore, was rather disappointing. So, then, the powers that be started looking for ways to expand the list, put a bit more meat on the bones, so to speak. And one obvious way to do this is to go through the existing lists for all 25 business categories and pick out those behavioral modes that might also be applicable to some of the others but weren't in the original lists for them. And so, 'paying cash' suddenly appeared on a lot of the lists (including the one we're talking about) without a great deal of further consideration. Now, we've got some meaty lists for all 25 categories.

'Paying cash' (or perhaps 'attempting to pay cash') makes a reasonably good flag for some of these businesses, not so much for others. [Quite frankly, if I walked into an 'internet cafe', as you define it, that I wasn't a frequent customer of, I'd likely attempt to pay in cash myself -- wouldn't particularly care to give them my credit/debit card details. (It seems far too many of these places are really fronts for internet gambling or internet prostitution services and I'd be just as happy not to leave a record that I'd ever entered the premises. I'd also be leery of leaving my details in places whose main business is really internet gaming -- far too likely to have the junior hacker squad in attendance.)]

I don't think the FBI did!

I suspect that the FBI simply created the original flyers and then sent them out (probably as PDF files) to local and state law enforcement agencies that they thought could use them. (There's a long list in the SLATT/SAR program documentation of LEAs participating from the beginning.)

It was then likely left as an 'exercise for the recipient' to decide to which businesses within their area of authority they would distribute the appropriate flyers. The local/state LEAs could also modify the flyers as they saw fit, also (and apparently quite a few did). Having neatly disposed of the distribution effort (from their perspective), the FBI then sat back and waited for the tips to start rolling in.

Now, the local LEAs probably thought that the original flyers, when received, were great stuff -- and then they started working on how to identify what businesses to contact. I suspect that many of them quickly found this was a time-intensive labor-consuming activity and then simply decided to post them on their publicly accessible websites.

End of story.

That certainly takes into account the immutable laws of gravity.

Why, yes, I suppose it does.

What's a "bookstore"? Oh, yeah, something called Borders that doesn't exist now. There are no bookstores anymore so how could there be internet access in a non-existent store? As for the library, you must make a reservation at LEAST ONE WEEK in advance you only get 50 minutes per week.

Someone could make one up. I made one up for laundromats (those hotbeds of terror activity).
»Re: Do You Like Online Privacy? You May Be a Terrorist

Item 1: People who always pay cash.

For the Craigslist terror flyer:
Item 2: People who insist on being paid in cash.

Next the FBI will insist you pay with Diners in Amsterdam Coffee Shops.

In New York City, people buying stuff who refuse to leave a copy of their fingerprints and iris scans.