 ARPremium,ExMod 2001-04
join:2000-09-21
Toronto, ON | reply to ruddypict
Re: Cost to apply for a criminal pardon in Canada to quadruple Of course, I don't know as an expert. I don't intend on ever asking for one. But I do know a lot (comparatively) about the US tax filing and foreign bank account reporting requirements for expats. That's an area of direct impact.
So you're saying that either we create a tiered pardon system with the drug lords and the rapists being charged more? (Can we make it $5000 for these guys?) vs the DUI guy getting charged $150?
Rapists should be put away for life and never allowed a "pardon", unless it comes out that they were falsely accused or sentenced for something they never did. In that case, transfer the sentence to the false accuser!
Nobody is "happy" about locking up people. But there's realistic understanding that some people are deviant and shouldn't be allowed to mix in society. If we could put them up in a tent colony up in the Yukon for way cheaper, I'd be all for that. Save money and pay more to the Corrections Officers. |
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peterboroPremium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON | said by AR: But there's realistic understanding that some people are deviant and shouldn't be allowed to mix in society. A little overboard for some. Take the Bay and Wall St. criminals, a lifetime ban on any financial dealings on top of 20 years in prison and I'm happy. |
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| reply to AR
said by AR:Of course, I don't know as an expert. I don't intend on ever asking for one. But I do know a lot (comparatively) about the US tax filing and foreign bank account reporting requirements for expats. That's an area of direct impact. I don't intend on asking for one either. But I do love to learn new things. And you never know how laws will change in the future. What if they brought Prohibition of alcohol back? I'd have to become an outlaw. 
said by AR:So you're saying that either we create a tiered pardon system with the drug lords and the rapists being charged more? (Can we make it $5000 for these guys?) vs the DUI guy getting charged $150? I'm not saying that at all. We don't need a multi tiered pardon system. One pardon is fine. If you want a drug lord or a rapist punished more, then push for them to be put away.
And frankly I'd rather punish someone harder for DUI (an activity that can KILL people indiscriminately) than some kid selling pot (an activity that might murder a bag of chips). I still wouldn't ask for everyone's pardon to suffer because I wanted someone with a DUI to get punished more.
said by AR:Rapists should be put away for life and never allowed a "pardon", unless it comes out that they were falsely accused or sentenced for something they never did. In that case, transfer the sentence to the false accuser! Then if you feel that way, lobby to have them not able to get pardons. Screwing every single person who wants a pardon because you don't like rapists doesn't make sense.
said by AR:Nobody is "happy" about locking up people. But there's realistic understanding that some people are deviant and shouldn't be allowed to mix in society. If we could put them up in a tent colony up in the Yukon for way cheaper, I'd be all for that. Save money and pay more to the Corrections Officers. And depending on the offense, I might agree with you. But pardons have nothing to do with any of that. A pardon is for someone who's done their time, learned their lesson and wants to get back on track. People who want to just jump back into criminal behaviour don't apply for pardons.
I think I know where you are coming from (correct me if I'm wrong). You are thinking of the worst of society and how they shouldn't be out in the first place. If that's what you are looking for, I think you need to take umbrage with other parts of the process, such as the law, the conviction etc.. Attacking the pardon system is way too late in the process. And making it cost more won't stop rapists from coming out of prison. |
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said by peterboro:said by AR: But there's realistic understanding that some people are deviant and shouldn't be allowed to mix in society. A little overboard for some. Take the Bay and Wall St. criminals, a lifetime ban on any financial dealings on top of 20 years in prison and I'm happy. Well if we're going to discuss the punishment phase, how about having poor people beat them with bags of money? It could be amusing. |
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 J E F FWhatta Ya Think About Dat?Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
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| reply to Xstar_Lumini
said by Xstar_Lumini:said by AR:They should make it even more expensive. Raise revenue through these convict aholes and cut our taxes a bit.
Not everybody with a criminal record is a criminal, I know this guy who is the nicest and most hardworking person and charged with DUI after a few drinks in his company's Christmas party, he is now a "criminal" that needs a pardon to go across the border. A pardon doesn't help you get across the border, that's another issue. Nor can one with a criminal record be denied a passport.
There are a lot of people that have made mistakes, nothing major, but are labeled the same as pedophile or murderer.
Usually for those that are convicted of a minor offense, the only difference between them and the none criminals are: they got caught, someone ratted them out, they had a hard judge or a crappy lawyer.
However, if paying $600 makes it easier and quicker to get a pardon, then perhaps it's a good thing. I recall getting my license wasn't exactly cheap.
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If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein |
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J E F FWhatta Ya Think About Dat?Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON Reviews:
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| reply to ruddypict
said by ruddypict:said by Savant:I'm sorry, but I do not see the problem with this.
I don't see how anyone can justify forcing the law abiding Canadian population paying for this. If a person breaks the law, let them pay the cost for a pardon, not the taxpayers.
Pardons are not a right, they are a privilege.
Lowering the price of pardons costs money now. It helps more ex-convicts re-integrate with society. This means they'll be getting jobs and paying taxes. I'm willing to bet a productive life is going to pay a lot more in taxes than their pardon ever cost. Raising the cost of pardons saves money now. But it means less ex-convicts will re-integrate with society. Which means back to a life of crime. When they get re-arrested the taxpayer gets to pick up the tab on sending them back to con college, which costs money in the near future. And with that overflow you need new prisons which costs an immense amount of money. I know which tab I'd rather pick up. Logic not allowed here....go home.
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If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein |
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peterboroPremium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON | reply to J E F F
said by J E F F: A pardon doesn't help you get across the border, that's another issue. Nor can one with a criminal record be denied a passport. Actually it does as once you disclose a record it's in the US system forever. But private pardon services have been advising truckers for example to not cross until they get one as the INS has no way of knowing once CPIC level 1 queries are clear. |
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peterboroPremium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON | reply to ruddypict
said by ruddypict: Well if we're going to discuss the punishment phase, how about having poor people beat them with bags of money? It could be amusing. Only if it's coins. |
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J E F FWhatta Ya Think About Dat?Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON Reviews:
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| reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:said by J E F F: A pardon doesn't help you get across the border, that's another issue. Nor can one with a criminal record be denied a passport. Actually it does as once you disclose a record it's in the US system forever. But private pardon services have been advising truckers for example to not cross until they get one as the INS has no way of knowing once CPIC level 1 queries are clear. If I am not mistaken, I believe they might be sharing that information now...could be wrong though.
Technically, though, you are legally required to tell them if you ever been convicted, although if you have the pardon, most people will lie and get away with it.
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If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein |
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NCRGuy
join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON | said by J E F F:said by peterboro:said by J E F F: A pardon doesn't help you get across the border, that's another issue. Nor can one with a criminal record be denied a passport. Actually it does as once you disclose a record it's in the US system forever. But private pardon services have been advising truckers for example to not cross until they get one as the INS has no way of knowing once CPIC level 1 queries are clear. If I am not mistaken, I believe they might be sharing that information now...could be wrong though. Technically, though, you are legally required to tell them if you ever been convicted, although if you have the pardon, most people will lie and get away with it. The information is not proactively shared. They will only run you through CPIC if you attempt a crossing. Anything they find will be downloaded onto their own system and will remain there, even if it is subsequently removed or otherwise segregated from CPIC at a later time. |
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| reply to ruddypict
said by ruddypict:said by FiReSTaRT:Stop using rational arguments and short-term thinking! He spat on a sidewalk? Put him on the rack like in the good ol' days!
I made the mistake of reading this while taking a big gulp of coffee, I think my sinuses are caffeinated now. Lol guys, it was 7am and not enough coffee for someone who is typically used to working from home and not even being awake at that time. Yes, I meant long-term thinking 
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If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw |
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