| Tankless revisited... Oregon the gas and electric rates have been low for a long time. Cheap hydro. Anyhow I already have a gas line large enough to support a gas tankless, I don't need to replace my tank right now, but I thought I would do it for the savings. However I was able to obtain an electric unit for $300 instead of $600 The sucker takes 3 x 40 AMP breakers and I am out of slots so I would have to combine some of the 120's?
Since the unit was so cheap compared to a PVC Vent/ventless gas tankless I wonder should I install it? I had planned on just reselling it. |
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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC | Well I remember that the few times I lived in an apartment with a gas tankless water heater, that thing was freaking instantaneous to turn cold water to boiling water.
You'd open a hot water tap, hear the pilot light turn on and voila, hot water.
I don't see how electric can achieve that.
consumerreport on tankless
»www.consumerreports.org/cro/appl···s-ov.htm
These guys are usually the go-to reference for a lot of things.
quote:
We didn't test electric tankless heaters because many can't deliver hot water fast enough to replace a conventional water heater if groundwater is cold.
So ya... I was right. |
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scooper
join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
kudos:2 Reviews:
 ·Time Warner Cable
 ·Embarq Now Centu..
| reply to kieranmullen
Tankless water heaters are all about temperature rise for a given quantity of water delivered. That 120 AMP electric probably produces maybe 3.5-4 gallons per minute - about as much as a 120K BTU gas tankless.
I have a 40AMP tankless for my kitchen - does about 1 gallon per minute |
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contsolePremium
join:2003-12-30
Bloomfield, CT | reply to kieranmullen
Twenty years ago I remember seeing some very small point of use tankless electric water heaters. They were rated at 40 degree rise at some specified flow rate. The manufacturer suggested stacking two of them to get a more reasonable rise. They had no throttling, it was on or off which means they either supply scalding or cold water at low flow rates. The real kicker was they were 24 KW each. That makes it impractical for most homes. |
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sk1939
join:2010-10-23
france
kudos:6 Reviews:
 ·T-Mobile US
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to kieranmullen
I would suggest getting a gas tank-less since you cannot legally put double pole breakers where the single pole breakers are in a box.
DO NOT COMBINE 120V BREAKERS TO MAKE 240V!
This means that you would either need to create a sub panel, or more likely, upgrade your breaker panel (and probably your service) which is far more than the cost difference between the electric and gas tank-less. The cost of doing the aforementioned process exceeds the cost (most likely) of putting a gas solution in place.
Here are approx numbers for the electric tank-less:
Temp. Rise @ 1.5 GPM 105 Degrees , Temp. Rise @ 2.5 GPM 78 Degrees , Temp. Rise @ 4.0 GPM 49 Degrees , Min. Flow Activation 0.87 GPM, Temp. Range 86 to 140 |
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 macsierraBaby NewfoundlandPremium
join:2003-11-30
Minden, NV
·Charter
| reply to kieranmullen
IMO, knowing the amperage that my small electric tankless uses up just at the kitchen sink (50 amp) to make up for a 60 foot run from the 200,000 BTU gas tankless I would never even consider electric tankless. A 320 amp service panel would be the minimum for an electric tankless in my opinion.
Cheap hydro will sometimes trap you into an all electric home and than it doesn't stay cheap as my friend in Montana found out. His bill is running $600+ a month for just 2 people with a 400 amp service panel and a smart dummy meter. 
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Jimmy Hoffa’s dad was the last shovel-ready job..
Will Rodgers never met Harry Reid..
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Saul Alinsky was also a community organizer & Marxist..
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| said by macsierra:Cheap hydro will sometimes trap you into an all electric home and than it doesn't stay cheap as my friend in Montana found out. His bill is running $600+ a month for just 2 people with a 400 amp service panel and a smart dummy meter.
i agree, up here in quebec our cheap power has gotten people in that trap, i have dual energy heating, and you will have to pry my oil furnace from my cold dead hands |
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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC | said by telco_mtl:i agree, up here in quebec our cheap power has gotten people in that trap, i have dual energy heating, and you will have to pry my oil furnace from my cold dead hands
Oil, bleh
Natural Gaz is where it's at!
Try to get a oil range or an oil BBQ! |
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scooper
join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Embarq Now Centu..
| reply to macsierra
said by macsierra:IMO, knowing the amperage that my small electric tankless uses up just at the kitchen sink (50 amp) to make up for a 60 foot run from the 200,000 BTU gas tankless I would never even consider electric tankless. A 320 amp service panel would be the minimum for an electric tankless in my opinion.
Cheap hydro will sometimes trap you into an all electric home and than it doesn't stay cheap as my friend in Montana found out. His bill is running $600+ a month for just 2 people with a 400 amp service panel and a smart dummy meter.
+1 !!!! |
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 tobyTroy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13
Seattle, WA
·OlyPen, Inc.
·CenturyLink
| reply to kieranmullen
The only way to save money on heating water and using electricity to power it, is to use a heat pump water heater.
»www.geappliances.com/heat-pump-h···-heater/
Tankless water heaters don't save money, the only thing they save is space. |
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| reply to alkizmo
Cost of a tankless is about $1000 more to purchase the hardware nevermind installation. How long would it take to recoup that money? Yes electric rates could go up.... but so could gas!
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Make your voip number accessible to sipbroker.com and free worldwide call in numbers |
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macsierraBaby NewfoundlandPremium
join:2003-11-30
Minden, NV Reviews:
·Charter
| said by kieranmullen:Cost of a tankless is about $1000 more to purchase the hardware nevermind installation. How long would it take to recoup that money? Yes electric rates could go up.... but so could gas!
Not quite, when you are talking $1100 for a 199,000 BTU Rinnai top of the line..
»www.ebay.com/itm/Rinnai-R94LSi-I···7wt_1144
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Jimmy Hoffa’s dad was the last shovel-ready job..
Will Rodgers never met Harry Reid..
Why was I Anti-Obama before it was cool?
Saul Alinsky was also a community organizer & Marxist..
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| I would not install gas myself. |
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ncbillPremium
join:2007-01-23
Winston Salem, NC | reply to kieranmullen
Why not stick with whatever you have now?
Sounds like even an electric tank heater is cheap to run at the rates you pay, if you want to replace your current water heater. |
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macsierraBaby NewfoundlandPremium
join:2003-11-30
Minden, NV Reviews:
·Charter
| reply to kieranmullen
said by kieranmullen:I would not install gas myself. $1000 more to purchase the hardware nevermind installation
In my situation, I had is a 20 year old tank HWH and a 20 year old down flow forced air both NG and admittedly non efficient. So the changeover was obvious to do both at once using an air handler forced air to go with the Rinnai tankless. My NG bill dropped 50 to $75 a month with the combined install. In 3 years I'm about even with hardware cost. Plus, I needed room in the heater area.
Looking at the whole job, I'm a contractor so the install was admittedly cheaper. I did the same combined install for my neighbor a year ago and he's experiencing over $100 saving per month on NG.
Air Handler:
»www.ebay.com/itm/Rinnai-Air-Hand···36wt_922
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Jimmy Hoffa’s dad was the last shovel-ready job..
Will Rodgers never met Harry Reid..
Why was I Anti-Obama before it was cool?
Saul Alinsky was also a community organizer & Marxist..
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| reply to ncbill
I thought about putting it after the water heater and turning the heater off to see how well it heats. |
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sk1939
join:2010-10-23
france
kudos:6 | It's not going to be an install you can do yourself. You will need both an electrician and a plumber (never let the plumber do electrical). |
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macsierraBaby NewfoundlandPremium
join:2003-11-30
Minden, NV | reply to kieranmullen
What size is the electric tankless heater, amperage/watts? |
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 AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ | reply to sk1939
said by sk1939:It's not going to be an install you can do yourself. You will need both an electrician and a plumber (never let the plumber do electrical).
it would be ok on a gas unit depending on the local codes.
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--Standard disclaimers apply.--
google this "(sqrt(cos(x))*cos(200*x)+sqrt(abs(x))-0.7)*(4-x*x)^0.01, sqrt(9-x^2), -sqrt(9-x^2)" |
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| reply to macsierra
ECO 27 | Electric Tankless Water Heater
240 V 27KW MAX 112.5 Amps MAX Breaker 3 x 40 DP
»www.ecosmartus.com/products/elec···ess.aspx
Since the weather is mild here and the unit is larger than our small 1200sqft home requires, it should use less power.
»www.amazon.com/Ecosmart-ECO-27-M···6&sr=8-1
ok so I saved less than I thought by purchasing a new one for $300
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