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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23

CRTC issues decision that may affect the DMC

CRTC completes review of telecommunications regulations:
Requires large telephone companies to provide free diagnostic services

OTTAWA-GATINEAU — Today, the Canadian Radio-television and
Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) completed a comprehensive review of
over 80 telecommunications regulations, which resulted in the elimination
or streamlining of over 60 per cent of these regulations. Regulations that
are in the public interest, such as those relating to 911 services,
accessibility and customer privacy, were left unchanged.

“Service providers should have as much flexibility as possible to bring
innovative communications services to Canadians,” said Leonard Katz, the
CRTC’s Acting Chairman and Vice-Chairman of Telecommunications. “We have
gone to great lengths to reduce costs and red tape for the industry by
ensuring that our regulatory measures don’t interfere with a competitive
marketplace, while maintaining necessary protection for Canadians.”

In 2007, the CRTC embarked on a comprehensive review of its
telecommunications regulations following the government’s policy direction
to rely as much as possible on market forces. During its review, the CRTC
removed 23 regulations, modified or streamlined 28 regulations and
maintained 33 regulations. The review was concluded today with the
publication of a decision regarding telephone wiring.

In today’s decision, the CRTC directed telephone companies, if their
customers experience a problem with their phone line and do not have a
jack-ended demarcation device (a special jack commonly found either in the
basement or outside the home), to provide a free diagnostic service.
Companies must install this jack following the diagnostic service, after
which customers can perform the diagnostic themselves by plugging their
phone into it. If they hear a dial tone, then the problem is with the
inside wiring and they can choose a repair service. If they do not hear a
dial tone, then the problem is in the network outside and the telephone
company must repair it free of charge.

Going forward, the CRTC will continue to favour market forces and
carefully weigh the need for any new regulations. In particular, the CRTC
will be mindful of the administrative burden any proposed requirement,
enforcement measure or penalty may create for small Canadian businesses.

Telecom Regulatory Policy CRTC 2012-83
»crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2012/2012 ··· 2-83.htm


Davesnothere
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Oh REALLY !

Hmmmm, sounds like a Must-Read to ME.

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23
quote:
Based on the above, the Commission decides that all ILECs subject to a transfer of responsibility are required to install a jack-ended demarcation device, free of charge, following the provision of free diagnostic service to their single-line inside wire customers during the same visit to the customer's premises.

Further, the Commission decides that ILECs are permitted to charge for single-line inside wire repair service, if they are requested to perform such repairs during the same visit when they install a jack-ended demarcation device at a customer's premises.

So, Bell comes in. There is no demarc, so the visit is "free". However, Bell can install a demarc, and once done, it can tell the customer the problem is in hsi inside wiring at which point, Bell could perform the work to fix it and bill the DMC charge.

Crixox

join:2010-09-10
Repentigny, QC
reply to jfmezei
This is great!

let's see how Bell comes out with this new regulation.


Davesnothere
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reply to jfmezei
 
This is so Hot Off the Press that the PDF file link is not yet active !

cog_biz_user
i ruin threads apparently

join:2011-04-19
Hamilton, ON

1 edit
reply to jfmezei
said by jfmezei:

customers can perform the diagnostic themselves by plugging their phone into it. If they hear a dial tone, then the problem is with the inside wiring and they can choose a repair service. If they do not hear a dial tone, then the problem is in the network outside and the telephone company must repair it free of charge.

just because they get a dialtone doesn't signify that the line is in perfect working order. in another thread i mentioned how bad the phone wiring was at a house i lived in. some days the phone would work fine, other days the phone would ring once and then the line would get stuck open for several hours.
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Fact: Most movies shown on cable get two stars or less
and are repeated ad nauseum.

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23
reply to Davesnothere
quote:
[1] A demarcation device refers to the equipment that connects the inside wire of the customer's premises to the ILEC's network. Demarcation devices that are jack-ended include a test jack or demarcation jack that allows customers to verify whether a transmission problem is on the inside wire or on the telephone network.

ISPs should obtain pictures of Bell's jack ended demarcs. They could then ask their customers if they have such a device on their home or not.


Davesnothere
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2 edits
reply to jfmezei
said by jfmezei:

....So, Bell comes in. - There is no demarc, so the visit is 'FREE'.

However, Bell can install a demarc, and once done, it can tell the customer the problem is in hsi inside wiring at which point, Bell could perform the work to fix it and bill the DMC charge.

 
FREE if Bell does no further work and leaves ?

Or FREE if the tech stays and completes how much more work ?

WHO gets to decide whether or not a demarc gets installed ?

If they install one and leave, is it still FREE at THAT stage ?

Room remains yet for a money grab by B$ELL.

This new rule still rides on the assumption that the customer trusts the tech's word when the tech tells them that the customer's own wiring is bad, as may not know how to interpret the displays on the tech's diagnostic gear.

OK, I'll read the doc now....

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to jfmezei
said by jfmezei:

So, Bell comes in. There is no demarc, so the visit is "free". However, Bell can install a demarc, and once done, it can tell the customer the problem is in hsi inside wiring at which point, Bell could perform the work to fix it and bill the DMC charge.

No, not exactly. The DMC is (supposed to be) only if the problem is not with Bell's lines, and cannot be charged under the new rules if a modern demarc is not present prior to the visit.

They can however offer to fix the interior problem AFTER installing the demarc, at whatever they charge for such service. The difference is that before, they could have still added the DMC on top of that.


Ott_Cable

@teksavvy.com
reply to Crixox
Bell *could* charge a one time $99 "Regulatory Recovery" fee to cover for this gotcha and pass it onto its victims customers.

Money will have to come out from anywhere outside of Bell's profit.


Davesnothere
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reply to bt
said by bt:

No, not exactly. The DMC is (supposed to be) only if the problem is not with Bell's lines, and cannot be charged under the new rules if a modern demarc is not present prior to the visit.

They can however offer to fix the interior problem AFTER installing the demarc, at whatever they charge for such service.

The difference is that before, they could have still added the DMC on top of that.

 
In theory that sounds like an improvement over the status quo.

Though I still see an aperature for abuse of policy by Bell and/or their techs.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
said by Davesnothere:

 
In theory that sounds like an improvement over the status quo.

Though I still see an aperature for abuse of policy by Bell and/or their techs.

It is an improvement, as it at least gives an easy way to fight the DMC if the customer doesn't have a modern demarc.

But yeah, Bell can still try to milk actual repair charges, and still throw DMCs out there to see who doesn't bother fighting it.


Davesnothere
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reply to Ott_Cable
said by Ott_Cable :

Bell *could* charge a one time $99 "Regulatory Recovery" fee to cover for this gotcha and pass it onto its victims customers.

Money will have to come out from anywhere outside of Bell's profit, ....

 
....but within their REACH.


Davesnothere
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reply to bt
said by bt:

....But yeah, Bell can still try to milk, er, I mean Bilk actual repair charges, and still throw DMCs out there to see who doesn't bother fighting it.

 
And don't think that a back room conversation is not taking place at Bell tonight, or even as we speak.

MOOOOOOO !!!!

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
They can't just drop the repair charges on you out of the blue though. You have to explicitly agree to the repairs before they can charge you for them. So they are significantly less exploitable than the DMC has been.


Davesnothere
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said by bt:

They can't just drop the repair charges on you out of the blue....

 
[Cue sound effects for falling bombs]

Agreed.

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23
I wonder if there will now be black market for demarks without the testing jack. When you have a problem, you replace the new demarc with an old one, this way Bell can't charge you for the visit


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
said by jfmezei:

I wonder if there will now be black market for demarks without the testing jack. When you have a problem, you replace the new demarc with an old one, this way Bell can't charge you for the visit

LOL JF, you sure have some imagination...

Back in the day, I took a hammer to my old demarc cover giving it a nice crack & chip, and poured salt water on the terminals, which resulted in nice corrosion after a week or so. Then I called 611 and said i have noise on my line when it rains yadayada... tech came over, said omg what nasty demarc and ran to his truck and installed a demarc with a test jack.
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Davesnothere
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said by HiVolt:

....Back in the day, I took a hammer to my old demarc cover giving it a nice crack & chip, and poured salt water on the terminals, which resulted in nice corrosion after a week or so. Then I called 611 and said i have noise on my line when it rains yadayada... tech came over, said omg what nasty demarc and ran to his truck and installed a demarc with a test jack.

 
Talk about imagination !

Makes me wonder now - whether B$ELL really DESERVES all of the bad rhetoric and press that they get ?


andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1
reply to jfmezei
This all came about because bell will use rogers coax when installing sat,and rogers didnt like etc etc.So now that big word Bell likes to throw around comes into play. Symmetry so that either or will be able to use inside wiring for what ever.Will become important when houses all have cat6 or so pre wired in etc etc.


Ott_Cable

@teksavvy.com
reply to jfmezei
I have only read about telephone service and not anything else. Not going to be far reaching when DMC is concerned.

59677028

join:2012-01-19
Pontypool, ON
reply to jfmezei
said by jfmezei:

quote:
Based on the above, the Commission decides that all ILECs subject to a transfer of responsibility are required to install a jack-ended demarcation device, free of charge, following the provision of free diagnostic service to their single-line inside wire customers during the same visit to the customer's premises.

Further, the Commission decides that ILECs are permitted to charge for single-line inside wire repair service, if they are requested to perform such repairs during the same visit when they install a jack-ended demarcation device at a customer's premises.

So, Bell comes in. There is no demarc, so the visit is "free". However, Bell can install a demarc, and once done, it can tell the customer the problem is in hsi inside wiring at which point, Bell could perform the work to fix it and bill the DMC charge.

let me correct you , come in put one there fail to wire it at all, and then tell you its your prob and it costs you a million ( bits pinky, then pets naked cat ) a gajillion dollars to wire up....

bjlockie

join:2007-12-16
Ottawa, DSL
reply to Ott_Cable
said by Ott_Cable :

I have only read about telephone service and not anything else. Not going to be far reaching when DMC is concerned.

Exactly, I don't see how this affects DSL.