Technical > Automotive > OT

OT

Re: Dealer can't fix anything on the first try!

If anything, your thread title is too generous. It would be more accurate to say Incompetent dealer can't fix anything, even after repeated attempts.

reply to stev32k
I didn't say that you were considering legal action, I mentioned that as what happened to a couple of other situations with protracted repair procedures.

Your initial accounting was a bald description of the situation which is to me inherently misleading. If you represented the problem in description when first presenting for repair as, "the parking sensors don't work right", it would be easy to see why someone would not fix the vehicle the first time. Perhaps this wasn't how it happened; in any case, it sounds like there is an issue specific to the subject vehicle that may be an anomaly. In my experience, usually if there is a system problem there are certain failure modes that are likely that the manufacturer Technical Service Department may be able to assist with in diagnosing.

If you like, I will call a friend who manages the Toyota Service Department here (I have worked with him previously) and see if there are any bulletins of any kind with that system. He has a very fine lead technician who I have met several times who is quite sharp.
--
"from a broken heart to a hole in the sky"

reply to No_Strings
Nice flame bait for a mod. For all you know, there may not be anything the dealer can do because there may not be a fix. Perhaps the dealer knows there isn't a fix and is too embarrassed to admit it, thinking that they can somehow stumble on a satisfactory repair in a misplaced sense of pride.

On one hand, the OP rants that the dealer can't fix the truck. When pressed, he admits that they have been nice, offered alternate transportation and really have been trying to help.

~~ In spite of all the problems I like the people in the service department, and they have really tried to fix the problems. They offered to remove the sensors and refund my money,
but I don't want the money I want the sensors to work. ~~

No_Strings, have you ever fed your family as an automobile repair technician? I have.

Allow me to relate a true repair story:

Subject vehicle, 1994 Grand Prix. Issue: Open Power Door Lock fuse, intermittent.

The vehicle was purchased at another dealer, owner visiting and was in for an oil change and, "By the way, can you check the power door lock fuse? - it is blown". It had been looked at for the same blown fuse at least 8 times and no one could find the problem. I checked the fuse, found it open and installed a circuit breaker to test the operation and other related parts of the circuit. Finding no problems after 15 minutes (.1 clock hours paid for nearly .3 of time), we released the car and advised the customer to note anything they might consider relevant if the fuse blows again.

The vehicle returns a day later with the fuse blown. The customer was agitated because the fuse had blown the next day. I searched for bulletins and found several pertaining to the problem. In consulting with the Pontiac Technical Assistance Centre, I was authorised to remove all four door panels to replace loose actuator attaching rivets that could cause a load problem and a blown fuse. At least 1 rivet was found to be loose on each actuator and each actuator was found to have "play" as described in the bulletin. We were confident in that repair over all of the others that might have caused the issue.

The vehicle returned the next day with a blown fuse with an equally blown owner which is understandable even if the repairs are covered in full by the manufacturer. Since he would be in town for a few days, we offered alternate transportation to repair the problem with more time. I spent a long time trying to get the circuit breaker to trip. I spent equally as long trying to get the fuse to blow on road tests, over bumpy roads; long trips, short trips - whatever. I was about to give up when I thought I heard something odd in the right front door when operating the locks. I sat in the right front seat, began removing the door handle inner trim to look at the lock rod and dropped a screw whilst operating the lock switch. I leaned down to get it and tried operating the locks and they didn't work. Puzzled, I checked the fuse. Blown. Got out, went to the fuse box and installed the circuit breaker, went to the right side, sat and operated the locks. Breaker open, no lock operation. Got up to get my DVOM and heard the breaker click. Sat down and the locks don't work.

Removal of the passenger front seat and carpet revealed a crushed cross -car harness with about 12 wires pinched with exposed wiring. The fuse only would blow when a passenger sat in the seat! As far as I know, that was the only vehicle with that failure mode known to Pontiac at that time. More lucky than anything else. I can tell you this, we didn't even get any thanks for having repaired that vehicle on the third try, even when others had 8 attempts at admittedly something that wasn't necessarily a given to find.
--
"from a broken heart to a hole in the sky"

You'd do well to spend the same amount of effort and ink trying to offer help as you do being a dealer apologist. Your offer of leveraging a contact at Toyota sounded like a good one.

Lemon laws are in place exactly because of scenarios such as this where the manufacturer is incapable or unwilling to effect repairs despite multiple attempts. Can't fix it? Buy it back and I'll shop another brand. It's a shame all states don't offer consumers this protection.

Dealer apologist? That's a hot one! With all of the dealer bashing that goes on in this forum, at least there is someone who provides balance.

Since I am in the somewhat unique position of having worked independent first, at gas stations, in a "chain store" setup, and at a variety of dealerships, I'd say I am well qualified to objectively rate repair facilities.

For all the complaints about "the dealer did this" I could provide ten on unreasonable customer expectations (not that this is limited to automotive by any stretch!). In many cases, the customer doesn't understand the vehicle and the proper operation of the system. While this may not be the case in this situation, it is definitely one of the biggest areas of conflict when a problem is thought to be occurring. It is interesting to note that these "issues" seem to arise soon after vehicle purchase and may persist [with some small percentage of owners] until the warranty period has concluded, whereupon they are never seen again until such time a repair is needed that can pretty much only be performed at a dealership.

By far, the most unusual of all repair-related oddities (hack jobs) I have seen came from the aftermarket. Some have been posted here, which I will not rehash (again) because I am sure you have seen them. But nothing sells like dirty laundry and there isn't anything that people love to see more as a a title such as "Dealer Rip-Off in America!" That article (or one like it) has appeared in Reader's Digest several times.

I've worked with hacks before, but I can tell you technicians are unusually brutal with each other due to the competitive nature of the shop environment. The "ball busting" that goes on in shops is not for the faint of heart, and if you can't fix cars you ain't gonna last long. It would be a very unusual scenario for an entire organisation to be comprised of ne'er do wells. Because of the technical nature of vehicles, I was involved in travelling for repair training and have seen facilities over quite a large area. I can tell you pretty much within the lesser part of an hour who the sharp, top guy in the shop is, who the slacker is and who the scammer is.

The advent of Customer Satisfaction Indexes has made it much more consumer-friendly than ever, and more consumer-biased than ever. Dealerships are held to a standard by the manufacturer to repair the vehicle right the first time. Have you ever heard of a CSI survey in the aftermarket? Not too common. To be fair, perhaps warranties were not comprehensive enough in the 40s through the late 70s, but the pendulum has been the other way for a long time. Warranties and "free" repairs have been the norm for quite some time. I put free in quotes because if anyone thinks that repairs are free, they are deluding themselves. The "free" maintenance, brake pads for life, oil changes for life - they are all included in the selling price of the vehicle. Surprised? Nobody should be. There's no free lunch.

I'd love to see a thread in this forum about what happened "under the shade tree" or in the independent garage, because I am sure the horror stories abound. I am not sure I will see one though, because that wouldn't fit. I guess it is OK when an indie screws up; how could they possibly know any better, since dealers "keep all that information secret".

Cheers!
--
"from a broken heart to a hole in the sky"