Reviews:
 ·linode
 ·Cogeco Cable
 ·Bell Sympatico
1 edit | Technical FibeTV Networking I'm currently in the process of preparing a bunch of documents about FibeTV. As part of this, I need to briefly explain the technical aspects of how FibeTV works. So I guess I'll just... start.
Typical internet access:
So from what I understand, current PPPoE service uses IP packets inside PPP packets inside ethernet packets which are bridged over ATM between the CPE (modem), to the DSLAM (whether it be a remote or equipment at the CO). The ATM cells are then reassembled by the DSLAM to re-form the ethernet frames (containing the PPPoE packets) and go through a fibre ring (in the case of remotes) to the CO. At the CO (or wherever Bell's BAS equipment is), the PPP headers are stripped and the packets are either routed out to the internet (for Bell subscribers) or re-encapsulated and routed via some other tunneling protocol (L2TP?) to the third-party ISP's location/internet exchange.
When the PPPoE discovery is taking place, the Bell RADIUS servers forward any packets with a non-Bell domain to the proper third-party provider RADIUS server that handles authentication. But the PADI-PADO-PADR all happens between the CPE and the Bell's BAS (right? or is it between CPE and DSLAM?).
If anything's wrong with the above block of text, feel free to correct me.
FibeTV:
The CPE has two "sides" to it, one that handles the typical internet side (as above), and the other that handles FibeTV. This is where my knowledge ends.
- Does the CPE modem do some sort of authentication (presumably pre-programmed by Bell)? All it does is act as a dumb bridge for multicast packets from the FibeTV login to the STBs (which are on their own VLAN at the customer premises), right?
- The BAS routers relay any multicast traffic being "listened to" by FibeTV customers back through the DSLAM to the modem over <insert protocol here>. Do the ethernet frames have a VLAN tag on them so the modem knows to separate them? Is there a single source of multicast traffic within AS577 (or one per metro/province)?
- The PPPoE session for the customer's internet access (non-FibeTV) is a completely different session from the FibeTV session, right? Is this distinction only on the ethernet level (with VLAN tagging) or does it carry through to the other levels? (Does the session between CPE and DSLAM even care/distinguish if there are multiple PPPoE sessions running through it?) Am I mistaken in thinking that VLANs are part of the ethernet frame when they are actually part of the IP packet?
I'm sorry for the huge wall of text, but I'm just trying to figure things out. I know that if anybody can help, it's the friendly, knowledgeable people of DSLr! If anybody could help me with a brief description (or verbose, totally up to you) of how FibeTV differs from typical PPPoE internet service, I'd really appreciate it.  |
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 GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:16 | At the moment, I believe there's a separate PPPoE session for IPTV.
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org |
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 andybPremium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1 | Yea if I remember right from one of the hearings,A user is required to have internet when fib tv is purchased.The modem comes preconfigured with 2 logins.One for tv and one for internet |
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grunze510
join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC
kudos:1 | It says in the fine print for FibeTV that you're required to have at least Essential Plus internet. »fibetv.bell.ca/en/legal/
The internet routing uses the 0/35 VPI/VCI, and I think the IPTV routing uses the 0/36 VPI/VCI. |
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GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:16 | reply to squircle
It's totally arbitrary. There's no reason why I shouldn't be able to just enter the TV login on my FTTN-GAS Cellpipe and get TV service.
In fact, if I had the TV box and knew somebody who had the service, I bet I could do just that... I wonder if I can find somebody who has Bell internet, qualifies for FibeTV, but doesn't want the TV? I could get them to sign up for the TV, use the login/box myself, let them use the internet part....
Grah, too complicated/risky. Why won't Bell just let me sign up for the damned service?
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org |
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| I'm not sure which reasons are behind their desire not to sell TV only. Could be a cost issue (IPTV only economic when sold with DSL) or perhaps technical (some internet service is required to make certain features of the STBs work?).
Yes, there are two VLANs on the wan side. One which only accepts "internet" logins and another for the IPTV pppoe login. I am uncertain what kind of access control the individual IPTV logins do, but the STBs also have to be registered. The IPTV login probably also terminates somewhere other than the traditional BAS. Most DSLAMs have IPTV-focused PPPoE and IP termination features built in, but it could also be done elsewhere.
Either way, for the moment IPTV is sold bundled, only by the incumbent. |
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grunze510
join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC
kudos:1 | I think it's a combination of anti-competitive reasons, and their use of "apps" on their IPTV units.
Fine print #14 says "Use of apps on Fibe TV counts towards your Bell Internet usage".
But I think the reason they require an internet bundle is mostly just because they can. |
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Reviews:
·linode
·Cogeco Cable
·Bell Sympatico
| said by grunze510:But I think the reason they require an internet bundle is mostly just because they can.
And that's what I'm working on. I can't divulge any more information than that, but you've all greatly helped my understanding. Thanks! |
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grunze510
join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC
kudos:1 | I don't have FibeTV, but let's say you remove your internet login or whatever way you can get it to not work, while keeping the FibeTV login working. What will or won't work on the Motorola unit? |
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ns1225
join:2010-12-30
Montreal, QC Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Guspaz
Bell is getting rid of Cable VDN, and my cheap analogue TV for $35, and replacing it with their own expensive Fibe bundle. I will see if they'll offer TV only considering the circumstances, however, I'm not too hopeful.
A follow up technical question regarding FibeTV, will they be using old Cable VDN infrastructure or will it be through the phone line. If not, what happens to all that HFC equipment? |
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andybPremium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1 | reply to Guspaz
You can actually get the tv from anywhere if you have an extra box.Guy on YouTube been telling this for a couple of years. |
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| For IPTV? Or the dish? With the Dish, unless they have enforced dial in verification, you can move the box locations. For IPTV, the line at the non-subscribed site would need to have provisioning for IPTV done (perhaps the default for 25/7 lines does. not sure though) and the TV PPPoE login right? Then hook up the box and off to the races. But I expect if this becomes problematic they will prevent this from being exploited. |
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jfmezeiPremium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:22 Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
| reply to squircle
For VDSL2 service on Bell, there is no ATM involved. Other Telcos do offer their IPTV service over ADSL2+ which still has ATM involved.
For Bell, the FibTV connection is totally separate from the internet connection, using not only differet login credentials but also different VLANs. At the DSLAM, the FibTV VLAN is segragated from internet andthe DSLAM applies various rate limits to the internet to ensure your FibTV has sufficient bandwidth depending on how many TVs are watching at the moment.
FibTV traffic does NOT go through the BAS. It is split from internet traffic before reaching the BAS. In major cities, there is one central mediaroom server farm and this is where all the FibTV traffic comes from and sen via multicast to all the customers.
For internet, you are correct that PADI-PADO-PADR happens between the CPE and the BAS for internet access. For FibTV, the PPPoE is only between the cellpipe and the DSLAM. (the nature of multicasting requires that packets travel as IP packets that are not associated with any oen specific customer until it reaches the line that is dedicated to that customer) |
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| You know, I was just reading over the CRTC 2011-77 transcripts and thought "JF probably knows". Thank you so much!  |
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andybPremium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1 Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to freejazz_RdJ
Yes if you have iptv you can take the box anywhere on the FTTN network and use it.Rent extra boxes and re rent them out lol.Its not tied to a number(at least it wasnt a while ago).It all runs on ppoe login.Like taking your dsl login to a friends and using it there.It al comes down to if the neighborhood you go to has fttn that has a media server/cache already in place.Some have fttn but no tv and some do |
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Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
 ·WIND Mobile
| People can use Rogers STBs anywhere in the same city as well. However it only works providing the cable line is unfiltered (i.e. you already have basic digital cable). Rogers has the advantage of filtering out the authentication channel so the STB can't communicate with the headend. I'm also pretty sure renting boxes out to non-account holders counts as tv piracy, don't try this at home.
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Fiber Optics are the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR »Fiber Optic Forum. |
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Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
·WIND Mobile
| Bell really needs to start doing port-based authentications so you can only use your IPTV STB on your DSLAM. MAC address auth and logins have too much potential to be abused.
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Fiber Optics are the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR »Fiber Optic Forum. |
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Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
·WIND Mobile
| And more importantly they need to get modems that don't spontaneously freeze people's internet connection. I can't believe 2 years have gone by and this hasn't been fixed, what a scam. > : (
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Fiber Optics are the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR »Fiber Optic Forum. |
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| said by BliZZardX:And more importantly they need to get modems that don't spontaneously freeze people's internet connection. I can't believe 2 years have gone by and this hasn't been fixed, what a scam. > : ( Part of it may be the modems but part of it is also the clunky early generations not-quite-VDSL2 IKNS chipsets in some DSLAMs. |
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Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
| reply to squircle
The login ID & password for the TV side of FibeTV is different from the Internet side, and Bell doesn't share the password with the customer, so that is step #1 in preventing account sharing.
Also, I had a situation where my line had been accidentally reconfigured for Internet only (ordered a 2nd dry loop service), and the TV stopped working, even though I still had Internet on the line, so it seems that they can turn on/off the TV side on a per subscriber basis. What isn't clear is if this is tied to the logins (PPPoE), or something else which is done at the remote.
-- SS |
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