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XXXXXXXXXXX1
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join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

GE Generator Interlock Switch done!

Click for full size
close up of switch
Generator interlock switch is in. New electrician did the install. It's pretty simple actually- there is the switch on the face of the panel, some weird bracket that seems to hold the upper right and left breakers in place, wiring from the panel to the outside of the house, and the generator hookup box itself. Took a couple of hours, and after all expenses (materials, labor, permits, etc.) ended up being about 500 bucks.

All I need now is for the electrician to make up a 10-15ish foot cable to hook a generator to that external box, and a 7500+ watt generator.

But I'm in no mega rush... I'll wait for a good sale (or a yard sale).
XXXXXXXXXXX1

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XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

Anybody have a recommendation for a generator for my purposes? I'm probably looking at 1000ish dollars as the high end of my price range.

Anything I should consider or should really stay away from?

EDIT: Though this unit is out of my posted price range, the all-weather feature is very tempting.

»www.homedepot.com/Outdoo ··· Id=10051

shdesigns
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Stone Mountain, GA
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shdesigns

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30A so 7200VA would be the peak.

I had a 5800VA Blue Star (Northern Tools brand.) It worked well. Had basically the same setup without an interlock. Would run everything exept A/C and stove. Have gas heat so nothing to run the fan.

For gas, a Honda engine will be a plus for reliability.

I got rid of it as the gas would be bad even with Stabil every time I needed it. That was before I found you need a special version for gas with ethanol.

If I had kept it, I'd have converted it to propane. Better storage but you need a tank bigger than a BBQ size.

Decide what you need to run. I have an 8KVA NG one now and it runs everything I need. Has over 100hours over the last 4 years.

Stay away from no-name engines (Honda clones.)

ITICharlie1
Ass Mode
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join:2003-01-22
Saint Louis, MO

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What are your essential needs that will be powered by the generator? The bigger it is, the more gas it will go through. Do you have a well or sump pump? Is your furnace and hot water gas or electric? Start by making a list of what you want powered, get the watt rating for each (will need start up ratings for anything with a motor). This will help determine size. Consider NG or PG if you don't want to store any gasoline. Here is a good website to help determine size...

»www.generatorjoe.net/htm ··· ing.html
XXXXXXXXXXX1
Premium Member
join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

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XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

Electrician and i talked about it today, and given that I have mostly propane devices in the house, the well pump would be my biggest draw. If I wanted to run the well, propane hot water, propane forced hot air heat, fridge + freezer, and a few lights, 7500 watts would be ideal for size/cost/fuel consumption.

I didn't realize that a 30amp breaker has a max 7200 watt capacity (if I read that correctly), so if that is true, then a weather resistant 7500 watt unit would seem to be the way to go.

EDIT: Am I correct in thinking that my 30amp generator setup has a max of 7200 watts? Or is the max more or less?

ITICharlie1
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join:2003-01-22
Saint Louis, MO

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I had this done back in July of 2010. Generator is a Honeywell 7000 watt with Honda GX390 motor I got a Costco for $900.00. It uses an electronics friendly, SurePower Alternator on this generator. It provides auto voltage regulation, and makes clean power that won't harm electronics.

»New Panel and generator setup

Here is a great website on generators that might help.

»www.electricgeneratorsdi ··· ect.com/

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

I've been using my non-electronics friendly Honda 5000 since 1997 on tv's, computers, printers, modems, DVR's, electric stoves, toasters, microwave, well pump, water heater, lights, etc. Never had any problem at all.

Honda makes inverter generators now for electronics but seem weird because they also power everything else which probably dirties up the power.

nunya
LXI 483
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O Fallon, MO
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What kind of propane supply do you have available? I would look for a generator you can connect to the propane line. There are also conversion kits available.

I would stay away from anything Chinese. I would stay away from anything that has a "no brand" or unheard of brand engine.
There are a lot of "name brand" manufacturers out there selling low quality lines with Chinese knockoff engines. They are easy to spot if you know where to look. Stanley, Coleman, and Generac are just a few I can think of that play this trick. Not all their generators are junk, but many are.

You almost can never go wrong with a Honda. I have a couple of their smaller EU units. Their bigger units are quite expensive though.

I can't remember where I saw this, but: "The bitterness of low quality is remembered long after the happiness of low price has been forgotten."
XXXXXXXXXXX1
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join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

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I have a 500 gallon underground propane tank, but it's piped into the house from over 60' away, and the house and propane system design make it impractical to pipe it to a generator. My understanding is that I'd need to buy a propane generator and have it permanently mounted to have it meet code... for the once in a blue moon that I'll lose power for an extended period, that's a hefty investment for not a lot of return.

The installing electrician said that when it comes to generators, there's honda, and then there's pretty much everybody else. But he did say that it'll be pricey comparative to the generacs and the troy-builts of the world. But as always... you'll get what you pay for.

In a side note, I had him eyeball that panel while it was open (on the advice of some in this forum ), and as far as wiring goes... he agreed that it was pretty sloppy, but the interior was wired correctly. What he was astounded at was that the panel was mounted using only 3 sheetrock screws!! He went in his truck, swapped them out, and cleaned up some of the interior wires while he was in there at no charge.

We talked about "cleaning up" that panel and the entire board, and as with all things, he said there is no one right way to do it, but he was not a fan of that panel being packed so densely. He said he would make a supbanel with the finished basement (in-law apartment) on that subpanel only, and rework the main panel for a clean overall installation. While he was at it, he would rework the components on the board (modem, cable, etc.) and get the whole job done. I'm considering it shortly down the road. I did some homework on him and he comes highly recommended and has been in business for many years. And he's a local guy... he has to see me in the grocery store week after week.

nunya
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O Fallon, MO
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nunya

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Generac and Troy-bilt make some fine generators (as well as some crappy generators). You just have to look for the ones that cost a little more, or possibly used. Usually the models with a non-china Briggs engine do just fine. They aren't going to be the quietest, but will do well if properly maintained.

Almost any portable generator can be converted to run on tri-fuel (gasoline, NG, and propane). I can't see where extending the propane line would be a major expense for a 10-12 HP engine. Usually the propane company splits the line before the regulator on the side of the house. Propane installs are usually far less complicated than NG.
They usually just use a quick-connect hose for portable units.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
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join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

nunya, what do you think of the electrician's idea of subpaneling the finished basement circuits to free up space in the main panel while cleaning it all up? I did some research and it seems to be an acceptable practice and would allow for some of those romex wires to be more easily moved from their exposed positions on the board.

nunya
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O Fallon, MO
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nunya

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I, personally, don't care for sub panels unless absolutely necessary. I am a firm believer in the "under one roof" theory.

I'm not saying I've never slapped a sub-panel in next to the main to make more space. Shit happens, and sometimes you have to do what you have to do. There's nothing really "wrong" with doing it.
Normally when I do a sub, It's a 200A main panel on one side of the building, and a 100A sub on the opposite side. It can actually save a lot of copper and labor. Copper is expensive, so is labor.

With the 42 space rule "out the window" (finally!), there will be larger panels available. For instance »static.schneider-electri ··· 0802.pdf'

I've seen 52 space QO 3 phase panels many times. All they did was put a sticker on the bottom 10 KO's that said "do not remove". There was still fully functional bus underneath.
I look for 60 space 200A panels to soon be the new "normal".

Hopefully this won't be as big of an issue in future construction.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
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join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

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When the electrician and I were talking it over, he said that to go from the panel I have to a GE 40 slot panel (I think he said 40) would have been an extra $15 at the time of the build. Given that the finishing of the basement was always part of the longer term plan and everyone knew that, that is what should have been bought... but I didn't know any better at the time of the original electrical installation and that got past me.

In any event, it is what it is now. I think the subpanel idea is probably the best option given my circumstances. I'm not doing a main panel swap- that's out of the question. Segregating the in-law apartment makes logical sense, and allows for expandability in the future, as well as the ability of my generator to supply power to any of those needed subpanel circuits during an outage. And besides doing nothing and keeping the panel as-is, this seems to be the most cost effective way to put together a longer-term fix.

Again, time to ponder....

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine to nunya

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Generac's GP series are Chinese engines. ETQ is definitely Chinese. Onan uses Chinese engines. In fact even some of the cheaper Hondas use Chinese engines.

It's kind of hard to avoid chinese generators.

nunya
LXI 483
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O Fallon, MO
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Your existing panel is what's known as a 30/40. It is 30 spaces, but will give you 40 circuits because the bottom 10 slots accept tandems (or THQP for GE).
Changing to a 40 space would give you no extra capacity.
From the picture in your previous post, it appears you could free up 7 THQP spaces.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
Premium Member
join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

1 edit

XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

said by nunya:

Your existing panel is what's known as a 30/40. It is 30 spaces, but will give you 40 circuits because the bottom 10 slots accept tandems (or THQP for GE).
Changing to a 40 space would give you no extra capacity.
From the picture in your previous post, it appears you could free up 7 THQP spaces.

I think his point was that the 40 slot would have been a bigger frame on the unit itself, giving more physical space to work in there (and for a negligible cost in the grand scheme of a new home custom build). When the panel was open and he was trying to organize and clean up the interior, it was really jam packed- there wasn't much space to work at all. I'm pretty sure his subpanel approach is partly to create that room in there so it would be easier to work, as well as give easy expansion capacity if I wanted to add circuits down the road. I don't think he planned to put the subpanel right next to the main panel. There is a logical location close to the finished basement that would work well for those isolated circuits.

dennismurphy
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Parsippany, NJ

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said by XXXXXXXXXXX1:

Anybody have a recommendation for a generator for my purposes? I'm probably looking at 1000ish dollars as the high end of my price range.

Anything I should consider or should really stay away from?

EDIT: Though this unit is out of my posted price range, the all-weather feature is very tempting.

»www.homedepot.com/Outdoo ··· Id=10051

www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com

I already had a 5500 watt Coleman generator that my dad gave me - he bought it and has since upgraded - but my good friend (who borrowed said Coleman to run his house for 8 days a few months ago) has since bought a Briggs & Stratton from the website above. It is orders of magnitude better construction than the Coleman in my possession.

»www.electricgeneratorsdi ··· 324.html

Jack_in_VA
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join:2007-11-26
North, VA

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Honda Generators

You will be better off if you invest a little more and go for better quality.

I've had a EB5000 Honda since 1997 and used the heck out of it an had excellent results.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
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join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1 to dennismurphy

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Thanks for the link. I'll do some poking around there when I get a few. I've got my eye on that all-weather stanley 8000 watt generator at the moment, but I have not made any decisions.

Ideally, I'd like to run the following:

2 fridges
1 freezer
well pump
propane forced hot air heat
propane tankless hot water heater
and maybe a light or two

I'm trying to ballpark wattages of those items to determine if they could be on at once with the generator. But I don't want a monster generator that consumes fuel like a race car to preserve on resources in a pinch. The Stanley has the added benefit of being able to run in the snow or rain.

if I needed to shut off fridges and freezer to take a hot shower and then turn fridges and freezer back on, that's fine. It's only to get through until CL&P gets power back on.
XXXXXXXXXXX1

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Jack, can that run in the rain or snow?

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

Never tried it. I have mine in my detached garage out of the weather.

I've seen contractors using them in the open and rain doesn't seem to hurt them.

mudturtle74
join:2007-06-29
Killen, AL

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I'm looking to do this myself. Can you tell me where you bought the interlock switch and the cost of it? I think I could install it myself if it is not too complicated. I already have the generator but only use extension cords for now.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
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join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

Bought it from Home Depot:

»www.homedepot.com/buy/el ··· 036.html

Make sure you get the right one for your specific panel!! That kit fit my panel, but will not fit all GE panels- get the make and model of your panel and do some homework on the correct kit for your application. I would also check with your local building inspector's office to make sure that the interlock is allowed in your jurisdiction (they are not allowed in some places from the research I did).

I lucked out as a semi-local Home Depot had 2 on the shelf, but let me say that that particular interlock kit was VERY hard to find. Price was a little over 40 bucks for the kit itself (and then obviously installation on top of that).

Best of luck!
XXXXXXXXXXX1

XXXXXXXXXXX1 to nunya

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to nunya
I'm thinking about the propane hookup nunya suggested, and it seems from what I'm reading that the cable that goes to the generator from the hookup on the outside of the house can be extended at least 75 total feet (saw that one 25' cable is rated to be used in a chain of 3 total from my research). Is that the theoretical max? Or more or less?

I'm thinking about how much cable I would need to reach the generator if it was placed closer to the propane hookup. I already have a quick disconnect for my propane gas grill... I could have a generator outfitted with the tri-fuel kit, and then have the choice to run gasoline for a short duration, but also have the option to run off my propane tank if the outage is for a longer span. That seems like the most flexible option available... but it depends on how long the cord from the generator to the box can be...

EDIT: here is the link to that cable: »www.homedepot.com/webapp ··· 00675654

garys_2k
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join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

garys_2k

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If you expect to locate the generator in a particular area when running it I'd run a real cable to that spot with an outdoor rated box and power inlet, not extension cords. Run the THWN wires in a 1" conduit to the spot and you're good to go.

Also, you will want the generator to NOT have its neutral and ground bonded in the gennie's panel wiring, but use the house panel's bond for that purpose. Finally, putting a ground rod near where you're locating the generator and wiring that to the inlet will help keep you save, too.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO

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It also may be easier to get a longer propane hose. If the cord gets too long, you have to start considering voltage drop.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

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Check out the Stanley Generators at the bottom of this webpage:

»www.gxioutdoorpower.com/ ··· tors.php

It lists a 5Kw and 8Kw Stanley Generator that are weather resistant and provide extended run time. I am considering getting one of these.

They are listed on the Home Depot website here:

»www.homedepot.com/Outdoo ··· Id=10051
XXXXXXXXXXX1
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join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

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said by garys_2k:

Also, you will want the generator to NOT have its neutral and ground bonded in the gennie's panel wiring, but use the house panel's bond for that purpose. Finally, putting a ground rod near where you're locating the generator and wiring that to the inlet will help keep you save, too.

I'm still learning about all this, so please bear with me.

What do the above mean? If I buy an 8000 watt generator and hook it to the outdoor box without changing the generator's factory settings, that would be dangerous? I'm not sure what a neutral and ground bond is...
XXXXXXXXXXX1

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said by nunya:

It also may be easier to get a longer propane hose. If the cord gets too long, you have to start considering voltage drop.

The quick disconnect for my propane gas grill is only a few feet long and it's after the 2nd stage regulator, so it's got about .5 lbs of pressure. There is only that one hookup on the outside of the house.

If I were able to have one generator extension cable of, say, 30ish feet, and a propane line made of 30ish feet, would that work assuming the generator is placed far enough away so fumes don't come in?

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO

nunya

MVM

Most standby generators are placed within 5' of the building. But, they can't be within 5' of a window or door.