Technical > Home Improvement > New Heatpump system

New Heatpump system

Did you research or request any quotes for geothermal?

You also will probably not see the ROI on a 16 SEER vs a 13 SEER. The payback period for the cost difference is about 17 years, at least in my area, which has fairly high rates, and this includes tax breaks and poco rebates. You may want to get an estimate on a 13 SEER. Also, the 16 SEER unit is huge- check out the height dimension. If it is in an otherwise unused area, it won't be a problem, but if you're going to see it for any length of time (near a patio or window), it could be an issue.

Anyway, I had to do a similar replacement last year, and those were my findings. I went with the Trane 13 SEER, and a single-stage air handler. I preferred a dual stage, but it wouldn't fit due to space limitations. I had them set the fan speed lower as a compromise, plus it was too loud at full speed. Working out okay. I am using about 10% less power compared to the old 10 SEER unit (compared usage and adjusted for monthly average temperature differences).

reply to Jack_in_VA
Good luck with it. I haven't seen a $135 electric bill in years. This year, we lose the discounted kilowatt rate here for being all electric as well as the off-peak meter discounted rate.
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So put me on a highway, and show me a sign.
And take it to the limit one more time...

I have a 14i now so the size won't bother me. The price difference between a 15i and 16i is only $750 so to me the dual stage heating and cooling and variable speed air handler is worth it. No tax breaks or POCO rebates here but Trane is offering 5 years no interest and 10 yr parts and labor and 2 years semi-annual service.

The outdoor unit is 8 years old but in good shape so I'm donating it to a family in my county that's down on their luck. Their air handler is ok but the condenser is shot. (compressor) The HVAC company is going to install it for for free. It might help them thru a tough time.

I wouldn't be changing it out but my indoor unit is 17 years old and is getting in bad shape. The outdoor unit was changed out after hurricane Isabel flooded it in 2003.

reply to John97

Sounds very similar to our home's rates/usage. With our geo system and all electric home with 2 adults and 2 kids, we averaged $98/month last year. We are having an 8kw solar array installed next month, estimated to cover 70% of our usage for the year. I have taken some smaller steps to further reduce our 1100 kwh average usage each month.

Best of luck to you and your new system.
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Ofallon, Mo Weather
St. Peters, Mo Weather

reply to Jack_in_VA
I think you'll find the two-stage w/variable speed blower option to be well worth the extra cost. I've got a two stage geothermal HP w/variable speed blower and most of the time, only the first stage is called for. During the temperate times of the year, the house is much more comfortable with lower humidity in the summer and more even temperatures year-round. When the weather gets really cold, we use the wood boiler since we like the radiant floor heat but the HP will comfortably heat the house without energizing the backup heat strips. As far as my own home goes, ROI is a distant consideration as compared to comfort and reliability. I've never had any regrets when making the decision to buy a better product but there have been many when only buying 'good enough'.

The HVAC company said they have found that the dual stage works well here as the full capacity is hardly needed in this area but must be installed to cover the demand. That makes the lower capacity very attractive.

Even on very cold days my single stage cycles and the heat strips only come on when the unit is in defrost. That indicates the dual will work fine.

reply to owlyn
Agree completely.

Have the exact same outside unit and it is HUGE (obstructs part of a bedroom's window view - old unit did not)

My inside unit is a single-speed air handler (80% gas furnace as auxiliary heat)

I picked the dual-fuel option since at that time natural gas had spiked to nearly $15/MMBtu (versus $3 now)

Currently I would NOT do dual-fuel or SEER 16 given my fuel costs (just central A/C & a 80% furnace).

But I would pick the variable speed air handler.

No gas service at your home? (in a power failure you could run the furnace off the smallest generator if you have them wire a plug)

No gas here. This one is about the same size of the existing 14i which sits on a 2 foot high for flood protection. Code requirement now after Hurricane Isabel.

I have a free standing gas Buck Stove with fans so I do have some heat.

reply to Jack_in_VA
No gas here either. When we bought this house it had an old oil burner that was woefully inefficient and no central air. The options were to replace the oil burner and install central air or go with heat pumps to do both.

Heat pumps are mothballed this winter because I got a pellet stove insert for the fireplace. I'm heating the whole house with it and keeping the electric bills down.
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So put me on a highway, and show me a sign.
And take it to the limit one more time...

reply to tstolze

That was the complete install including 2-200 ft loops.
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Ofallon, Mo Weather
St. Peters, Mo Weather

reply to Jack_in_VA
Heat-pump replacement started today. I did not realize that as efficiency increases the height of the condenser unit increases also. The 16i is the same footprint as the 14i but 2 ft higher. Curious I checked the height of a 15i and it was one ft higher.

Being only 8 years old my old 14i may give the needy family several years of service hopefully. The installers were very careful removing it.

The 17 year old air handler was a very different story. The coil and fan was in perfect shape and very clean but the unit was full of mold, the steel baffles in the coil were rusted out and the electrical in the compartment under the breakers containing the sequencer and wiring for the heat strips was about to implode, burn up and trip out. Bear in mind burnt off wires were replaced about a month ago and 2 others were now burned off. The only heater working was the 3rd stage 5K. The heaters themselves on the other side of the metal baffle are in perfect shape.

The new air handler is completely different. It is completely plastic type material inside and out like a refrigerator with the insulation in between. The interior can be wiped clean with a rag and detergent just like a fridge. There is no place or anything that mold can really get a start on.

I see a lot of electronics. Thankfully it has a 10 year parts and labor warranty.

I have good expectations this 2 stage condenser and variable speed air handler with the High Efficiency 17.0 SEER and 10.55 HSPF and R410A Refrigerant will be very efficient. Given the 14i with the mis-matched air handler was not a full 14 SEER uint but performed very well.

I didn't even bother with a programmable thermostat as I don't use the one I have now leaving it on hold. 73 in winter and 75 in summer. I'm installing a top of the line non-programmable and if I don't like it they will swap it out with a programmable at no charge.

It took them long enough to redesign the air handlers. I'd been complaining about the flimsy, thin insulation in them for years. The Vortica blower and the electronic expansion valve are pretty cool, as is the all aluminum coil. Yes, the outside units are monsters. The reason is because they can't double up on the coil like they can in conventional copper/aluminum coils. Nevertheless, Trane are awesome.

There's not that much difference in the condenser unit except vertical size and the scroll 2 stage compressor.

The new air handler is a thing of design beauty. I wonder what took so long for them to get to this level. Compared to what came out this new one is a Cadillac.

I notice too the indoor coil is a lot larger than the old 3 ton coil.