| "Up to" taken for a ride by court »www.thestar.com/wheels/article/1···-for-all
»www.wheels.ca/columns/article/802622
The extension of this decision to internet access is only a matter of time.
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A California court awards the owner of a 2006 Honda Civic hybrid nearly $10,000 because her car internet access didn’t get the fuel economy speed it’s supposed to.
“Only in LaLa Land?” you wonder.
Carmakers ISP's must hope so, because if courts elsewhere buy into the ruling of a Los Angeles small claims judge, they’ll all be open to damages by millions of drivers internet users.
In a nutshell, Heather Peters, a former lawyer, sued American Honda Co., claiming she got about 10 miles per gallon less than the 50 (4.7 litres per 100 kilometres) promised on the car’s mileage sticker.
Honda argued it couldn’t be convicted of fraud or misrepresentation because it was “stuck” with using the figure mandated by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. It also noted fine print that advised the mileage was “up to” 50 miles per gallon and actual results would vary, depending on driving styles and conditions.
The judge ordered Honda to compensate Peters for gas the Civic had consumed, and would in future, in excess of the mileage claim.
His key reason:
“Honda responds that it is stuck with EPA mileage figures provided to it. This does not seem to be the case. Honda’s Bell, Rogers, Telus, Videotron, Cogeco, et. al.'s own testing should be the guideline for how it advertises its vehicles’ mileages access speeds, not the generalized work, valuable though it is, done by the EPA CRTC.”
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One has to remember that the EPA mileage numbers are an average of city/highway driving. An equivalent internet number would have to be the average of a typical week (ie. no Super Bowl type event) averaged over a full 168 hour week (24x7), and all types of traffic (http, torrent, etc.....) |
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| Since the 50MPG sticker is the EPA's certified result under EPA testing conditions, Honda will most likely win their appeal... can't charge Honda with fraud or whatever else when the advertised fuel consumption comes from the EPA, a federal authority.
As noted in the article, EPA numbers are the only consistent numbers for comparing economy between manufacturers and are consistently 20% higher than real-world numbers... so the real problem is the EPA's 2006 driving model and test methodology not accurately representing real-world conditions, not "fraud" by Honda and every other manufacturer. The article also says that EPA tests have been reviewed to be more real-world-like in 2008. |
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| reply to MaynardKrebs
Always remembers that "up to" means "no more than" or "best case scenario" and never means "average". |
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Reviews:
 ·TekSavvy Cable
 ·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to MaynardKrebs
This is a dangerous ruling especially with vehicle fuel economy which can vary depending on road conditions, skill of the driver, traffic, weather, tires, weight of the passengers/cargo. It's never as simple as the vehicle gets a straight X km/m per litre/gallon.
The same goes with internet access, there are a number of technical factors and a number of routers/backbone providers between you and most sites on the internet. It is impossible to gaurantee a specific speed anywhere. Even your connection with your ISP can be affected by wiring conditions and congestion. I really see no way they can start enforcing specific speeds, perhaps the advertising may have to change to advise of the "best effort" nature of internet speeds. |
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| Your average chips have speed dependent on temperature, voltage, process and even where on a wafrer. Yet the semiconductor industry manage to sell you chips with speed grade and guaranteed timing by looking at statistical model so that engineer can build working systems.
Is the math so hard to specify the minimum sync speed at least? Hell even a 1 or 2 sigma would be better. |
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| BTW Bell has access to the sync speeds of the current connected subscribers so they already have a large enough statistical sample to work with. |
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peterboroPremium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON | reply to MaynardKrebs
As I pointed out in CanChat this ruling will likely not be overturned as a finding of fact and settlement exists in a higher circuit court in the US between Honda and other owners. This lady decided to go to small claims on her own with a different set of damages for her situation. |
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| reply to MaynardKrebs
the future would then do the following
take the absolute worst case fuel economy and post that as the "average" then when everyone gets more they all happy
see its easy
so up to 5 megabit becomes 3 megabit
up to 12 megabit becomes 7 megabit
and so on.....
price wont change they jsut get evil about wording again |
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| reply to MaynardKrebs
Isn't it time our bills mirror the service we get?
If one doesn't get the full amount then one shouldn't be paying the full amount.
Getting 8Mb down best-case-scenario instead of the advertised 10Mb should mean paying 20% less than the advertised price.
Who am i kidding.
Nevermind. |
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Doonz
join:2010-11-27
Beaumont, AB Reviews:
·Shaw
| said by RTfM2010:Isn't it time our bills mirror the service we get?
If one doesn't get the full amount then one shouldn't be paying the full amount.
Getting 8Mb down best-case-scenario instead of the advertised 10Mb should mean paying 20% less than the advertised price.
Who am i kidding.
Nevermind.
No because if Users had to pay what it actually cost to get a guaranteed speed then people would be so upset we'd never hear the end of it |
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Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
| reply to hahahehehoho
said by hahahehehoho:the future would then do the following
take the absolute worst case fuel economy and post that as the "average" then when everyone gets more they all happy
see its easy
so up to 5 megabit becomes 3 megabit
up to 12 megabit becomes 7 megabit
and so on.....
price wont change they jsut get evil about wording again
Bell Business Internet is already like that - it says 'guaranteed 12 megabit & up to 16' etc |
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