 Tracer6
join:2006-10-12
Bowmanville, ON | [TV] Rogers Cable Going Digital: Full-Disclosure Rogers is calling this change to digital an “upgrade”. In fact, it is a upgrade to Rogers profits, primarily.
This is what the “Hurry & Order Your Free Digital Adapter Today!’ post card doesn't say:
1. You will lose the ability to record one channel while watching another, unless you pay about $500 for a Rogers PVR (personal video recorder). This device has two tuners inside, which change digital back to the analogue you are already getting over the cable. A Rogers PVR will not allow transferring video to any other device (an appeasement to content providers).
2. Your digital adapter’s remote control takes over from your existing television remote. If your tv already has picture-in-picture (two CATV tuners inside), you will lose that as well.
3. The digital adapter is just another zombie power drain. It is always on and always drawing electricity.
4. Once, 85% of existing cable customers in your area accept the digital adapter, all analogue channels higher than 29 will disappear. Your high bills won’t. There is no way to warn your neighbours about this, nor is there any indication of how Rogers determines 85% penetration of digital cable.
5. Roger already delivers other signals on the analogue cable without great difficulty. Yes, customers who download movies and receive high definition channels will get more. Recent Rogers advertising claims their Internet is delivered on a separate system (and will not slow down while watching TV), yet how can this be so if only one cable enters the house, as is the current method for delivering both cable TV and Internet and Pay-Per-View (and VOIP or phone service)?
6. Rogers claims improved sound and video quality. They must be referring to the Digital Set Top Box and not the free digital adapter, because I see no improvement on an almost identical Cogeco adapter. Remember these are standard definition channels, not high definition. They simply take the digital signal and convert it to analogue in your home, rather than doing so beforehand at Rogers “headquarters”. However, Rogers gains because ten times as many standard definition channels can be sent than over an existing analogue channel. |
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bt
join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·Start Communicat..
| said by Tracer6:1. You will lose the ability to record one channel while watching another, unless you pay about $500 for a Rogers PVR (personal video recorder). This device has two tuners inside, which change digital back to the analogue you are already getting over the cable. A Rogers PVR will not allow transferring video to any other device (an appeasement to content providers). Yes, the PVR has two tuners inside. It has nothing to do with changing digital to analogue, however. There is a single output tuner in the PVR that is responsible for that, and it is in place after the equipment that handles the recording.
said by Tracer6:2. Your digital adapter’s remote control takes over from your existing television remote. If your tv already has picture-in-picture (two CATV tuners inside), you will lose that as well. Correct.
said by Tracer6:3. The digital adapter is just another zombie power drain. It is always on and always drawing electricity. So is your TV, VCR, DVD player, etc. Put them ALL on a power bar if that's your concern.
said by Tracer6:4. Once, 85% of existing cable customers in your area accept the digital adapter, all analogue channels higher than 29 will disappear. Your high bills won’t. There is no way to warn your neighbours about this, nor is there any indication of how Rogers determines 85% penetration of digital cable. I think it's pretty obvious how Rogers determines that - they've got all of the subscriber numbers. They know EXACTLY how many customers are on a given cable node (aka "area"), and can very likely tell how many are on each subscription package.
said by Tracer6:5. Roger already delivers other signals on the analogue cable without great difficulty. Yes, customers who download movies and receive high definition channels will get more. Recent Rogers advertising claims their Internet is delivered on a separate system (and will not slow down while watching TV), yet how can this be so if only one cable enters the house, as is the current method for delivering both cable TV and Internet and Pay-Per-View (and VOIP or phone service)? The recent Rogers commercials are semi-not-completely-accurate, kind of like the "Always fast, never shared" Bell commercials. Internet and TV are delivered on a single cable, but on different frequencies to each other. Removing analogue frees up frequencies that can be used for other services that are reaching the capacity on the frequencies they currently use.
Simply put, there is more demand for additional HD channels, more On Demand capacity and higher internet speeds than there is for continued analogue service.
said by Tracer6:6. Rogers claims improved sound and video quality. They must be referring to the Digital Set Top Box and not the free digital adapter, because I see no improvement on an almost identical Cogeco adapter. Remember these are standard definition channels, not high definition. They simply take the digital signal and convert it to analogue in your home, rather than doing so beforehand at Rogers “headquarters”. However, Rogers gains because ten times as many standard definition channels can be sent than over an existing analogue channel.
Even the digital adapter can have better quality than the analogue signals. The difference is pretty minimal as it is still transmitted from the adapter to the TV via coaxial cable, but the digital signal drastically reduces the potential for signal degredation and interference compared to fully analogue. If you were lucky enough to have a pristine analogue signal, you would likely not see any difference between analogue and the digital adapter. You would see a difference with a Digital STB connected with anything other than coax, though.
And really, did we need another thread about this? You've been attempting to beat this subject to death in 2 other threads already. You've got an axe to grind - we get it. |
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kliles
join:2007-06-26
Mississauga, ON | reply to Tracer6
said by Tracer6:A Rogers PVR will not allow transferring video to any other device (an appeasement to content providers).
I was under the impression (untested) that one could "play" the item on the PVR and output it to a DVD-recorder -for example- instead of outputting it to the TV. As I said, I have yet to try this, but isn't there a set of audio/video output jacks on the PVR?
Anyone who has actually done this is invited to jump in here... |
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 PaoloMr. Wireless
join:2004-05-29
canada | reply to Tracer6
Here are some additions to the full disclosure
95 percent of people do not record one channel while watching another on analogue anyway
100% of satellite dish, and digital cable and fiber optic tv subscribers use the providers remote anyway, there is nothing wrong with the providers universal remote, it is universal and mine controlls all the menu functions of my tv anyways like the colour, and sound controls etc, it even controls my blue ray player.
i would hardly call it a power drain, your blue ray players, vcrs, dvd players, audio receiver, already always plugged in, plus satellite dish boxes need to be always plugged in and powered on, its no different than digital cable.
internet signals, home phone, digital cable, and analog signals can coexist on one wire, its like a highway with 4 lanes, if u get rid of the lane for analog, then u can use that lane for digital tv will double, its not hard to understand. Analog is a big lane, but only few cars, while digital is a few lanes but they could use an extra lane or two. it would be economical to move all the traffic to the digital and let more cars travel on that road, even at faster speeds too.
sound quality is the same, but its improved if you upgrade your box to a stb, not hard to understand due to the additional digital sound outputs, ie toslink and coaxial.
video quality is definitely an improvement over analogue, analog goes snow when poor cable quality, but digital still remains clear, can look just as good with some interference.
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Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!! |
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Tracer6
join:2006-10-12
Bowmanville, ON | Paolo and bt,
Thanks for jumping in with clarifications again. I just want people to be fully aware. Some folks might not mind this change. I just don't like letting Rogers fudge the facts.
For example, being told that this change to digital is government mandated. (True for over the air, but not for cable.) I wonder how many other customers have be told this little fib, and believed it.
Also, I think lots of people time shift shows with a VCR or their own brand of video recorder. That equipment will still allow recording, just not on a different channel. Time shifting requires a Rogers PVR, at considerable up front cost, along with a monthly fee.
By the way, I went on Kijiji Ontario looking for standard definition Rogers PVRs. There are none - just people wanting to buy them. I think the price on the PVRs bought from Rogers has changed slightly in the last few day - also, listing Costco an authorized retailer).
I also find changing channels to be slower with the digital adapter.
The other threads are so junked up with messages, I wanted this one to be topmost, so people might see it.
I presume that Rogers must somehow prove to the CRTC that they have penetrated the digital market at the required 85% level. |
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Tracer6
join:2006-10-12
Bowmanville, ON | It also occurred to me that Rogers may gain in other ways from all digital data transfers. Each connected digital box is known to Rogers by its unique serial number and MAC address - which is matched to the customer's billing address, and which records the channel currently being viewed by the customer in a log file.
I imagine this plays well into potential advertising rates. Popularity of shows can be measured minute by minute and charged accordingly.
Anyone foolish enough to give Rogers their e-mail address might also expect tons of junk e-mail. I haven't read the privacy policy, but it wouldn't matter anyway. Changes are made in their customer agreement will-nilly. Who has time to read them with a fine-toothed comb?
The government's new snooping bill might even allow them to find out which shows customers have been watching by reviewing IP logs. |
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bt
join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1 | The digital adapters are one-way. Rogers won't know what channel you're tuned to.
The STBs are two-way, but do not carry the kind of demographic information that would be necessary for viewing numbers to have any use to advertisers. |
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PaoloMr. Wireless
join:2004-05-29
canada | Exactly, rogers is not in the business to collect ratings.
Ratings are tracked differently. and cable companies do not supply this info.
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Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!! |
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 sbrookPremium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:4 | At least not yet ... although you can be sure they'd love to be if it meant $ in their coffers! |
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Tracer6
join:2006-10-12
Bowmanville, ON | reply to bt
said by bt:The digital adapters are one-way. Rogers won't know what channel you're tuned to.
The STBs are two-way, but do not carry the kind of demographic information that would be necessary for viewing numbers to have any use to advertisers.
Well, that's reassuring - the one way digital adapters, that is.
But, I thought Rogers already substituted commercials and charged whatever the market could bear for inserting them. |
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bt
join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
| There is some sim-subbing of commercials on occasion for some US channels. It's actually required sometimes, but I don't remember the specific rules about it. They're mostly commercials for Rogers stuff, though (and Bell stuff on Bell TV, etc). Pushing Rogers-On-Demand, Rogers internet, etc, rather than sold commercial air time. |
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PaoloMr. Wireless
join:2004-05-29
canada | simsub is not done on the stb, its done at the headend, and sent down the cable to everyone. it is the same way simsubs are done over analogue
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Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!! |
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 J E F FWhatta Ya Think About Dat?Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
 ·Rogers Portable ..
·WIND Mobile
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to kliles
said by kliles:said by Tracer6:A Rogers PVR will not allow transferring video to any other device (an appeasement to content providers).
I was under the impression (untested) that one could "play" the item on the PVR and output it to a DVD-recorder -for example- instead of outputting it to the TV. As I said, I have yet to try this, but isn't there a set of audio/video output jacks on the PVR? Anyone who has actually done this is invited to jump in here... It sometimes works, depends whether or not Rogers is blocking it. (they can block the DVD recorder from recording) I haven't found this on most stations, and even some PPV's can be recorded. Depends on licensing.
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If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein |
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 HiVoltPremium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:17
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to Paolo
said by Paolo:Exactly, rogers is not in the business to collect ratings.
Ratings are tracked differently. and cable companies do not supply this info.
How are ratings calculated, I always wondered...
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GO LEAFS GO! |
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PaoloMr. Wireless
join:2004-05-29
canada | selected participants are mailed this little black device the size of a pager that they can wear on their belt with a clip.
the tv or radio stations sends an inaudible signal through the speakers of the tv or radio that this pager device picks up and records it, then they send it back after a week or two.
all this device does is keep track of the inaudible signals from different programs and the length. you then send this device back to the head office. from there they can link which inaudible signals are to what programs, and they compile data.
also the selection process requires you to tell them what your viewing habbits are, ie evening, morning, late nite, etc.
the device itself is pretty dumb. but the networks are involved because they send the signals down the broadcasts so this device picks it up.
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Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!! |
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HiVoltPremium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:17 | Heh, that seems pretty ghetto, and doesn't really represent the majority of viewers, does it?
Why not use the digital technology and work with the cable/sat companies?
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GO LEAFS GO! |
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PaoloMr. Wireless
join:2004-05-29
canada | because people like tracer will feel its an invasion of privacy |
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 nitzguyPremium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to sbrook
said by sbrook:At least not yet ... although you can be sure they'd love to be if it meant $ in their coffers!
No. Believe you me, its not something the cable companies are interested in. I don't know how many times I recieved a phone call when we'd push down a message to the STBs and people would call and say "you're recording me, there's a red light on my diginal box"...
Cable companies don't care what you watch or how much you watch....you pay the bill, they're happy. They don't have time to sift through millions of subscribers individual habits.
The Commercial substitution the OP is asking about is detailed in regulations regarding "Substitution of non-Canadian channels"...wondering why you get a Rogers commercial during your favourite A&E show like Dog the Bounty Hunter, or Storage Wars, or on I dunno, TLCs Extreme Couponing or something like that...
They're allowed to as part of license substitute in commercials over those US speciality channels.
That's different than simsubbing all together. The only company that does that substitution "at the box" is Starchoice/Shaw Direct, because they have different technology which allows the simsub based on postal code.
Anyhow, they also say its a better picture because if you have ghosting on certain channels, that rarely would ever happen on digital, or humbars...analogue deficiencies would disappear...and makes life easier for cable companies as either you get the picture or you don't....easy peasey. |
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kliles
join:2007-06-26
Mississauga, ON | reply to J E F F
said by J E F F:said by kliles:said by Tracer6:A Rogers PVR will not allow transferring video to any other device (an appeasement to content providers).
I was under the impression (untested) that one could "play" the item on the PVR and output it to a DVD-recorder -for example- instead of outputting it to the TV. As I said, I have yet to try this, but isn't there a set of audio/video output jacks on the PVR? Anyone who has actually done this is invited to jump in here... It sometimes works, depends whether or not Rogers is blocking it. (they can block the DVD recorder from recording) I haven't found this on most stations, and even some PPV's can be recorded. Depends on licensing. By "they can block the DVD from recording" I guess you must mean they somehow block the output to the rca jacks for *some* classes of recording? I dont see how the pvr can reach out to the DVD recorder () ... I guess an experiment is in order. |
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J E F FWhatta Ya Think About Dat?Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..
·WIND Mobile
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·magicjack.com
| said by kliles:By "they can block the DVD from recording" I guess you must mean they somehow block the output to the rca jacks for *some* classes of recording? I dont see how the pvr can reach out to the DVD recorder () ... I guess an experiment is in order.
No..they don't block signal...they send a signal to the VCR or DVD that prevents copyright material from being recorded. There are work arounds though...
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If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein |
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