 KrisnatharokCaveat EmptorPremium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:3
 ·Comcast
| Another Godaddy takedown, poss. w/o judicial review »arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news···lies.ars
Popular site JotForm doesn't host music or movies or child pornography, all of which have led US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to seize other Internet domain names without advance warning (sometimes making serious mistakes). JotForm also doesn't create content itself. Instead, it helps customers create online forms that can then be embedded in their websites for easy data collection.
But that didn't spare the site from having its entire business shuttered without warning yesterday as the site's domain name was shut down at the request of the US Secret Service. JotForm's domain name registrar, GoDaddy, redirected the site's nameservers to NS1.SUSPENDED-FOR.SPAM-AND-ABUSE.COM—and with that, JotForm.com became unreachable and the site's two million user-created forms all broke.
And it all may have been done without a court order.
...
The shutdown of his entire domain, without notice, for something a user had done even after protections were in place against it, seemed hugely unfair to Tank; he made his public case in terms that would also apply to other user-generated sites like YouTube. "We have 2 millions user generated forms," he wrote. "It is not possible for us to manually review all forms. This can happen to any Web site that allows user-generated content." 
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If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening. |
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| The basic problem is you have a Justice Department run amok, with no regard for the law. Once enforcement decisions start being made arbitrarily, it becomes a total crapshoot.
It all goes back to policy, and sadly that begins at the top. |
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| reply to Krisnatharok
Would that be like shutting down the USPS because someone is sending out "user-generated" spam? |
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 jvmorrisI Am The Man Who Was Not There.Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA | said by mod_wastrel:Would that be like shutting down the USPS because someone is sending out "user-generated" spam?
Oh, you mean junk mail!!???
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris |
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 therube
join:2004-11-11
Randallstown, MD
4 edits | reply to Krisnatharok
(Back up, »www.jotform.com/ & now a new domain too, »www.jotform.net/)
quote:
The government also didn't seem to care that a new site with the exact same content was also live on the Internet under a different name; jotform.net remains active.
said by "a JotForm customer" :
However because of what has happened now we will have to implement an internally hosted solution to guarantee this will not happen again and ensure we will not loose [sic] our data. I will now have to question purchasing any more services from US internet related providers.
And of course we all already know not to rely solely on the cloud.
quote:
JotForm today moved its domains away from GoDaddy to registrars NameCheap and Hover. Tank still doesn't know why his domain was suspended or when it might be returned; however, a WHOIS search this afternoon revealed that GoDaddy has at last removed the domain from its penalty box.
Not that anyone bothered to tell him this.
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1 edit | reply to Krisnatharok
Strikes me as a voluntary action in lieu of judicial action. The article is very vague about what happened though.
Not the best idea on GoDaddy's part but I believe they can refuse or cut off service at any time if they want to, as part of service agreements.
Not really an attractive hosting option, but I'm not sure I'd go as far as calling it 'running amok'. |
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 fatnesssubtleJanitor
join:2000-11-17
fishing
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| reply to goalieskates
said by goalieskates:The basic problem is you have a Justice Department run amok, with no regard for the law. Once enforcement decisions start being made arbitrarily, it becomes a total crapshoot. Good summary.
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hey Dale |
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 DrStrangeTechnically feasiblePremium
join:2001-07-23
West Hartford, CT
kudos:1 | reply to Krisnatharok
If I were JotForm, I'd be in contact with the Swedish Pirate Party pricing webhosting. |
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 KristopherI got a 4Premium
join:2002-10-11
Tyrinaria
kudos:4 | reply to Krisnatharok
F everything about this. Everything. |
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 Name GamePremium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
kudos:6 | reply to Krisnatharok
"Commenters suggested that it had to do with a phishing attack on a South African bank that used forms on the jotform domain to steal personal information from the bank’s users.
Tank also mentioned that forms may not be working anymore if they are pointing to the com address. He suggested to change the domain extension to .net instead to make them work again if that is the case. A knowledge base article is available to aid users who have dozens or even hundreds of forms that need to be changed.
Jotform customers should have received emails by now that inform them about the issue.
Some issues have not been addressed yet. It is for instance not clear why only the .com domain was suspended and why the .net domain was left untouched. The most likely reason is that the the contents were posted solely on the jotform.com domain.
And then there is the question how this could happen in first place. Was Jotform contacted by the authorities or bank representatives first to take down the contents without domain suspension? Several users who left comments suggested that a DCMA letter to Godaddy, the domain hosting company, was the culprit. This however does not explain Tank’s statement that a US government agency has shut down the domain temporarily."
»www.ghacks.net/2012/02/16/us-age···now-now/
Messages from Founder of JotForm here.
»news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3597821
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Name GamePremium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
kudos:6 | reply to Krisnatharok
I think Jotform owners need some real good Security Consultant Help based on the complaints which they have recently received..a real bummer for them and I think they are doing their best with the skills they do have.
_______________________
Your forms are now being used in spam emails. How do you plan on stopping this?
Asked by Michael (Spacequad AntiSpam Services) on January 07, 2012
»www.jotform.com/answers/66714-Yo···ing-this
Phishing site hosted at Jotform
Asked by Aileen Marson on January 31, 2012
»www.jotform.com/answers/71999-Ph···-Jotform
Detection-evading phishing from JotForm
Asked by Raul Landa onFebruary 05, 2012
Hello,
Just to let you know of a slimy new tactic by phishers. The idea now is to have an innocent-looking form, like this:
»www.jotform.com/answers/73054-De···-JotForm
Is Jotform trying to cover up phishing attempts?
Asked by Foxp2 on October 31, 2011
My previous questions that I have asked on this forum have been deleted. This certainly seems as if Jotform is not at all interesting in combating phishing.
»www.jotform.com/answers/53710-Is···attempts
Other's ask about phishing problems
»www.jotform.com/answers/tag/phishing%20forms
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| reply to Krisnatharok
Based on those posts at Jotform it seems phishing was indeed the issue here. Though it looks like Jotform was at least trying to respond responsibly to the reports, so I'm not sure why they'd be taken down.
Probably simply someone at GoDaddy unfamiliar with the situation, or attempting to be a bit too overeager in regards to reports of phishing attempts on the site.
Blaming the feds is probably premature. |
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Name GamePremium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
kudos:6 | Yup... we will soon find out the truth..still disconcerting.  |
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Name GamePremium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
kudos:6 | reply to Krisnatharok
Good read..but no new info...
Thanks to JotForm for responding so quickly to the problems caused by the improper shutdown of jotform.com by Godaddy & the Secret Service.
»www.jotform.com/answers/77391-Th···Service-
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to mod_wastrel
More like shuttering the Post Office because someone mailed someone a pirated Windows XP CD. |
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 Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1
·Bright House
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| reply to Krisnatharok
This is where JotForm found themselves yesterday.
I do realize that since then;
the Secret Service has begun to unwind a portion of the inappropriate amount of damage they caused JotForm.
said by HNews :JotForm.com has been suspended by Godaddy for more than 24 hours now. They have disabled the DNS without any prior notice or request. They have told us the domain name was suspended as part of an ongoing law enforcement investigation. In order to resolve the issue, they asked us to contact the officer in charge at U. S. Secret Service.
When I contacted the Secret Service, the agent told me she is busy and she asked for my phone number, and told me they will get back to me within this week.
I told them we are a web service with hundreds of thousands of users, so this is a matter of urgency, and we are ready to cooperate fully. I was ready to shutdown any form they request and provide any information we have about the user.
Unfortunately, she told me she needs to look at the case which she can do in a few days. I called her many times again to check about the case, but she seems to be getting irritated with me. At this point, we are waiting for them to look into our case.
Our guess is that this is probably about a phishing form. We take phishing very seriously. Our Bayesian phishing filter has suspended 65.000 accounts last year. We have been training it for many years, so it can detect phishing forms with great accuracy. We also take any reports about phishing very seriously and quickly suspend the accounts and let the other party know about it. The final tally seems to be that superior proactive compliance isn't what's necessary to keep a government entity from shuttering your business when it suits them.
I suppose this is what JotForm gets for not offering up several million dollars in congressional campaign contributions.
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| It's still not clear if it was a government entity doing the shutting down, or just GoDaddy being overeager. *shrug* I think it's a hugely important distinction.
There's a world of difference between "Cybercrime Agency: Oh hey we think you've got some phishing going on there... GoDaddy: Alright! *Shuts everything down in a fit of rage*" and having men in black pulling the ethernet cables out of the wall. |
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Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
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Lorton, VA
kudos:1 Reviews:
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| said by Pseudonym01:It's still not clear if it was a government entity doing the shutting down, or just GoDaddy being overeager. I can't recall a registrar ever offlining a domain without instruction to do so.
What's usually up in the air is whether the .gov agency actually had a warrant and relevant authority to order the takedown.
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The Dark Tower's Skynet evolves from 4chan. |
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4 edits | said by "GoDaddy's ToS" :Go Daddy expressly reserves the right to deny, cancel, terminate, suspend, lock, or modify access to (or control of) any Account or Services (including the right to cancel or transfer any domain name registration) for any reason (as determined by Go Daddy in its sole and absolute discretion)... Seems to apply here...
As far as I've seen, we still don't know if it was a *takedown* or overly proactive actions on GoDaddy's part after getting a heads-up. I realize I am repeating myself, but this aspect seems to be totally glossed over in discussions...
Edit: Added ToS quote. Changed ToS quote. And fixed some incoherency...  |
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 Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | reply to goalieskates
said by goalieskates:The basic problem is you have a Justice Department run amok, with no regard for the law.
Didn't you wonder why it was the Secret Service and not some local prosecutor or the FBI? Well, since 2001 the Secret Service was put in charge of combatting financial crimes using electronic means against the US's financial infrastructure by coordinating with all investigative agencies nationwide. Here is their web site: »www.secretservice.gov/ectf_about.shtml
protecting the integrity of the nation's financial payment systems. During this time, as methods of payment have evolved, so has the scope of the Secret Service's mission. Computers and other chip devices are now the facilitators of criminal activity or the target of such, compelling the involvement of the Secret Service in combating cyber crime.
»www.secretservice.gov/ectf_newyork.shtml
Investigations conducted by the U.S. Secret Service through the ECTFs include crimes such as:
Computer generated counterfeit currency
Bank fraud
Counterfeit checks
Credit card fraud
Virus and worm proliferation
Access device fraud
Telecommunications fraud
Internet threats
Computer system intrusions and cyber-attacks
Phishing/spoofing
Assistance with internet related child pornography and exploitation
CD/DVD piracy
Terrorism/terrorist financing nexus
Identity theft
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