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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:9

New Fusion average speed/distance chart

Click for full size
Fusion Broadband+Phone service sync speed/distance chart
For those considering or using Fusion, we've got an interesting new chart you may appreciate. This is current information which is generated from connection statistics from all customers currently in service in the entire Fusion platform today.

Note that there's lots of variance, with customers getting more or less than the average speed based upon a variety of factors. But, this average is useful because it gives some idea about what you might expect at a given distance. FYI, YMMV, etc.

-Dane

bswp

join:2010-11-28
Berkeley, CA

That is helpful, but can you show us a richer set of data? It would be great to see the "cloud" of data points that led to this curve fit. Ideally, various colors for the different COs that are handling the service.

My new bonded Fusion service is showing a rate of 5308 Kbps DL on one line, and just 2729 Kbps DL on the other line (as reported through the modem). I'm about 5500 feet straight-line to the CO, but obviously copper phone lines take lots of turns between home and CO.



leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

said by bswp:

That is helpful, but can you show us a richer set of data? It would be great to see the "cloud" of data points that led to this curve fit. Ideally, various colors for the different COs that are handling the service.

I also liked the scatter plot charts previously posted because they gave some idea of the range of speeds possible at a given distance.

Perhaps adding a lowest and highest speed curve to the average speed line would provide the same information ?

said by bswp:

My new bonded Fusion service is showing a rate of 5308 Kbps DL on one line, and just 2729 Kbps DL on the other line (as reported through the modem).

I'm not sure which modem you have and which firmware, but on my Comtrend the speed shown for the first line is actually the total of both lines combined. It may be the same for you in which case both of your lines are much closer in speed.
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filbo
Premium
join:2012-02-20
Mountain View, CA
reply to DaneJasper

I agree with the others that a combined chart would be even more useful.

Presentation: the 2-line scatter plot as posted in the other thread, using less "bold" dots for the scatter; with the integrated curve for 1- and 2-line modes overlaid through each cloud.

You don't need a separate plot of 1-line, it's included in the full chart and anyone who expects to get useful info from this sort of graphic will be able to interpret it.

>Bela


filbo
Premium
join:2012-02-20
Mountain View, CA
reply to DaneJasper

Also, the scatter plot showed no customers under 2000' or over 15K. So the lines for those regions should either disappear, or at least be shown as dotted/dashed "extrapolation" plots.



DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:9

2 recommendations

Click for full size
Fusion sync speed scatter plot
Here's the new scatter plot - the average speed curve is derived from the data shown here.

A few observations and caveats:

The cluster of customers in a line at around 8Mbps are customers with ADSL1 modems, which will not achieve a higher speed. We'll be working to identify those customers and will reach out to offer them an updated modem so they can achieve a higher speed. The data from these customers IS included in the average curve computation, making it not quite an "ideal ADSL2+" curve, but rather a curve where some legacy customers do have old modems and are pulling down the average a little.

For any given exact distance/speed combination, there may be more than one + symbol; they can be stacked. This makes the display somewhat inaccurate, but it generally occurs in areas of high clustering (nearer the average). In those areas, there's also a lot of near but non-overlapping, so it's a decent display output.

There is a lot of variability in speed at any given distance. The average line is quite useful, but the +/- is quite large. Household wiring and quality filters are very important, but outside plant wiring quality which is outside of your control can also be a big factor. YMMV - Fusion is as fast as we can deliver using the technology. We even use dynamic spectrum management to maximize stable speed, as we feel strongly that delivering the most possible bandwidth is key for our customers.

The greatest distance at which a customer is achieving 20Mbps is about 6,500ft. His wiring must be gold plated.

There are some customers well below the primary cluster of samples - even one or two sad folks at less than 3,000ft getting two to three megabits. These clearly need attention, and are likely affected by a source of interference, a bad modem, missing filters, etc. We're working to identify and proactively reach out to these customers.

There are quite a number of customers achieving greater than 20Mbps.

-Dane

bswp

join:2010-11-28
Berkeley, CA

Thanks! There's a clear band at approx 8 Mbps, anything to back that up? Is that one of the tiered bandwidth caps that get used?



DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:9

said by bswp:

Thanks! There's a clear band at approx 8 Mbps, anything to back that up? Is that one of the tiered bandwidth caps that get used?

See my comments posted with the plot for details - these are customers with ADSL1 modems, which max at 8Mbps.

-Dane


DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:9
reply to DaneJasper

Bumping this post; it should be sticky.


Tobester

join:2000-11-14
San Francisco, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

Great to see this as the new sticky at the top of the forum.

The scatter plots are probably much easier for forum newbies to understand a range of speeds versus a singular graph line.

Is it possible you can overlay the plots of your dual line Fusion product on top in another color like the previous sticky?



DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:9

I don't have new charts for the dual line, and there are not enough of them to accurately generate a curve fit. But - it's double the speed of single, plus or minute a bit.

-Dane


sidharth
Premium
join:2011-06-22
Berkeley, CA
reply to DaneJasper

said by bswp:

My new bonded Fusion service is showing a rate of 5308 Kbps DL on one line, and just 2729 Kbps DL on the other line (as reported through the modem). I'm about 5500 feet straight-line to the CO, but obviously copper phone lines take lots of turns between home and CO.

I am surprised you only get 8 Mbps since I live near downtown Berkeley (~5500 ft as well) and I get about 12.5 Mbps. Amazingly that number is spot on the graph almost exactly. And I only have a single line. I tried to get the dual line but it would cost too much money to rewire my condo.

Krellan

join:2001-06-06
Castro Valley, CA
reply to DaneJasper

Nice!

I'm a new Sonic customer, but had to settle for Legacy DSL because of my distance.

I'm 8000 feet from the RT, but 17000 feet from the CO. I can sync at 3M stable, 6M but that's right on the edge and has frequent dropouts (so I requested a downgrade to 3M).

I wonder how bonded service would work? At my distance, that's about the only chance I have. I'm in a house with at least 2 phone line drops coming to it, of which only 1 phone line is in use, so it's a candidate for bonding.


icky

join:2012-07-28
Hayward, CA
reply to DaneJasper

Yea!!! the tool says that I can get fusion in hayward, I had heard a while ago there was no fusion in hayward, fremont, san leandro... and my parents can't get it in Union city.
Boo!!!! it is almost $400.00 bucks for bonded fusion after taxes and install fees. The tool says i am around 7700 feet from the Local Serving Office. which means I am guessing I would get around a 75% bump over a a single line. but right now i don't have phone service so i'm guessing my install fees are higher then normal. Would definitly like to support sonic over the non fttp att uverse garbage thats available or comcrap, and i hate caps and throttling, so I guess i gotta do some more research. but im guessing I am not going to get much higher then 8mbps at my distance and could be severly lower? and since I am not going to get much higher then 8mbps am i better off getting a single line, or will it be even slower.



leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

said by icky:

The tool says i am around 7700 feet from the Local Serving Office ... but im guessing I am not going to get much higher then 8mbps at my distance and could be severly lower?

The charts are for a single Fusion line. For bonded (dual-line) Fusion the speed is doubled.
As you can see from the scatter plot there is a wide spread of different speeds at the same distance. This is due to differences in the condition of the lines as well as due to the presence of interferences (noise) in your home and along the route to the CO. Unfortunately that makes it very difficult to predict what speed you will actually see when service is established.
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Petef

@107.192.196.x
reply to DaneJasper

Um, dumb question. Which axis is speed and which is distance?



Websterina

@sonic.net

X = distance in feet, Y = speed in bps

I'm happy to get 21 Mbps at just under 3,000 ft.


brycenesbitt

join:2000-10-27
Berkeley, CA
reply to DaneJasper

How can sonic customers determine distance to the CO?
Non-customers can just enter the prequalifaction data on the website, but that does not work once you switch.



DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:9

said by brycenesbitt:

How can sonic customers determine distance to the CO?
Non-customers can just enter the prequalifaction data on the website, but that does not work once you switch.

There are three ways that I can think of.

You could prequalify your address using the sales page. But, prequalified distances are rough estimates, and may not match the real world.

You could calculate your distance using attenuation data that your modem might display. Others here might be able to give screen shots showing where this info is displayed on various modems. Then use a tool like this to see your results: »fremnet.net/article/216/adsl-the···lculator

Finally, you could write support@sonic.net and ask them for the distance out of our ASSIA loop optimization interface. This result should be about the same as the second method, as ASSIA simply calculates the distance based upon the attention.

brycenesbitt

join:2000-10-27
Berkeley, CA

1 recommendation

When I enter my sonic phone number into the prequal page, I get:

Oops! We weren't able to find the AT&T phone number you entered. Please try another number or call 1 (888) 766-4233 for assistance.
Based on Calculated:
Enter your Downstream attenuation (dB) 44.5 dB
Cable Loss (dB/km) Default 13.81
Attainable Rate (ADSL1) kbit/s 6135
Attainable Rate (ADSL2) kbit/s 7428
Distance to exchange (Meters) 3222 / 10,570 feet / 2.0 miles

Actual speed as reported by modem:
6654 kbs down 1019 kbs up