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telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to SpHeRe31459

Re: [STB] Cisco thinking of getting out of the set-top box busin

Yeah, well, ARRIS was the one favored to get it.

Here's an article on the sale from the Multichannel News site:

Arris to Buy Motorola's Home Unit from Google for $2.35B
By Todd Spangler, Multichannel News - December 19, 2012
»www.multichannel.com/cable-opera···b/140830


SpHeRe31459
Premium
join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA
kudos:2

A mostly rhetorical thought: Since Comcast is a huge Motorola client, what are the chances that we'll get the 6-tuner Moxi Gateway now that Motorola is owned by Arris.
I realize the answer is slim to none, since the Moxi basically takes the X1 head on, and that's Comcast new preferred reference platform (even though currently it doesn't have all 6-tuners enabled, etc. etc.).



mikedz4

join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast

unfortunately probably not anytime soon. Motorola/google will still issue boxes until probably late 2013 when the transaction closes and everything is switched over. Hopefully by that time comcast will have delivered the new x1 box and programming guide to most of their footprint.



telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

3 edits
reply to telcodad

Some more articles on the sale on the FierceCable and Light Reading Cable sites last night and this morning:

Arris to buy Motorola Mobility home division for $2.35B from Google
Set-top vendor will challenge Cisco, Pace, Humax

By Steve Donohue, FierceCable - December 19, 2012
»www.fiercecable.com/story/arris-···12-12-19

Google Sells Moto Home to Arris for $2.35B
By Craig Matsumoto, Light Reading Cable - December 19, 2012
»www.lightreading.com/document.as···lr_cable

Google Protects Arris From Big, Scary TiVo
By Jeff Baumgartner, Light Reading Cable - December 20, 2012
»www.lightreading.com/document.as···lr_cable

EDIT: Also on the CED Magazine site: »www.cedmagazine.com/news/2012/12···e-for-2b

EDIT2: And now this blog item by Jeff Baumgartner of Light Reading Cable:

Arris Swings for the Fences
By Jeff Baumgartner, Light Reading Cable - December 20, 2012
»www.lightreading.com/blog.asp?bl···lr_cable

EDIT3: An article on the Multichannel News site saying that ARRIS would be responsible for a maximum of $50 million in TiVo’s current patent lawsuit against Motorola:

Arris Would Pay Maximum of $50M in TiVo Patent Costs
By Todd Spangler, Multichannel News - December 21, 2012
»www.multichannel.com/video/arris···s/140884



telcodad
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Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to SpHeRe31459

said by SpHeRe31459:

A mostly rhetorical thought: Since Comcast is a huge Motorola client, what are the chances that we'll get the 6-tuner Moxi Gateway now that Motorola is owned by Arris.
I realize the answer is slim to none, since the Moxi basically takes the X1 head on, and that's Comcast new preferred reference platform (even though currently it doesn't have all 6-tuners enabled, etc. etc.).

said by mikedz4:

unfortunately probably not anytime soon. Motorola/google will still issue boxes until probably late 2013 when the transaction closes and everything is switched over. Hopefully by that time comcast will have delivered the new x1 box and programming guide to most of their footprint.

Yeah, as you say, ARRIS has their re-designed Moxi Gateway system (»www.arrisi.com/products/premises/index.asp) right now.
See the discussions about that in these previous threads:
»[STB] Moxi
»Re: Comcast AnyRoom DVR isn't Keeping Pace with its Competition
»Re: Comcast AnyRoom DVR isn't Keeping Pace with its Competition


telcodad
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Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to telcodad

An article on the Light Reading Cable site this morning:

Motorola & Arris: Product Gaps & Overlaps
By Jeff Baumgartner, Light Reading Cable - December 21, 2012
»www.lightreading.com/document.as···lr_cable



telcodad
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Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to telcodad

said by telcodad:

An article on the Light Reading Cable site today about all the STB vendors that have now licensed Comcast's Reference Design Kit (RDK):

Cisco, Humax & Technicolor Join Comcast's Crew
By Jeff Baumgartner, Light Reading Cable - October 10, 2012
»www.lightreading.com/document.as···lr_cable

An update on the LRC site today on all the companies that have now been licensed for Comcast's RDK:

Who's on Board With Comcast's Set-Top Kit?
By Jeff Baumgartner, Light Reading Cable - January 17, 2013
»www.lightreading.com/dvrs/whos-o···40146217


telcodad
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Lincroft, NJ
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reply to telcodad

Looks like Cisco is still staying in the set-top box business, just being more selective about which deals they bid on now:

Cisco Is 'Walking Away' From Low-Margin Set-Top Deals: Chambers
Service Provider Video Revenue Up 20% Due to NDS Acquisition

By Todd Spangler, Multichannel News - February 13, 2013
»www.multichannel.com/cable-opera···s/141719



telcodad
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Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to telcodad

A press release from Heavy Reading today about their new report on Comcast's Reference Design Kit (RDK) and how they're trying to transform and revive the set-top box:

Comcast Uses RDKs to Revive STBs, Heavy Reading Finds
Set-top box love is dying, but Comcast is using its new RDK to reignite operator interest, says Heavy Reading Cable Industry Insider

Heavy Reading Press Release - March 14, 2013
»www.prnewswire.com/news-releases···651.html


SpHeRe31459
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join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA
kudos:2

4 edits

I just saw a comment by Mari Silbey (who used to work for Moto) over at ZatzNotFunny that said the STB industry is about to get revitalized. I believe the details of that article you posted is what she was referring to.

The list of vendors covered in the article has many of the usual suspects, plus some lesser names thrown in... I notice the lack of Cisco on the list of vendors covered in the article though...

Box makers:
Arris (Making new gateway based on RDK, link. And now owns Moto set-top biz too)
Humax (implementing the high-end version of Entropic reference design which makes it an RDK Xi3 level box, link)
Pace
Technicolor

Chip vendors:
Broadcom (naturally, since their SoC are used in something like 99% of all new cable boxes)
Intel (has CE line of Atom processors, used in the first generation Pace X1 DVR)
Entropic (now making their own set-top box SoC based on ARM architecture reference box)
ST Micro (makes ARM based set-top box SoC)

Middleware:
SeaChange (VOD)
Espial Group
ThinkAnalytics Ltd. (Analytics for guide recommendations)

Too bad the full text of the article costs $900



telcodad
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Lincroft, NJ
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said by SpHeRe31459:

The list of vendors covered in the article has many of the usual suspects, plus some lesser names thrown in... I notice the lack of Cisco on the list of vendors covered in the article though...

Yes, that is strange, although it does state that the companies profiled "include," so Cisco could still be covered in the report.

Cisco did obtain an RDK license, as stated in this Light Reading Cable article »www.lightreading.com/set-top-box···40135039 from last October, but then again, as it was also said (at that time): "A Cisco spokeswoman said the company has obtained the license, but offered no guidance on RDK product development plans."


cypherstream
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join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
kudos:3
reply to SpHeRe31459

I'd be interested in seeing more designs featuring Intel, Entropic and ST Micro SoC's. Be very nice to finally see something other than a slow MIPS core at the reigns.

STB's are just SO under-powered. I'd like to finally see this centuries based UI's on them and users to be able to just zip around them flawlessly and fluidly like you would on an iPhone or Android Jelly Bean. I know we had good discussion on this before, but I'd just like to say I'm eager to see this STB revolution... and for ALL providers (Cable, Satellite, IPTV).

This leads me to this... I was streaming HD quality video off my xbox and it looked pretty good. It was only PCM 2.0 audio so my AVR had to expand it with ProLogic II, but the video was great over the internet. New xboxes start at $99 and they are light years ahead in terms of processing power any STB. Why not have a company come up with an IPTV service and cloud DVR.. launch an xbox app and then you could just get your broadband from whoever and get your TV from this cloud company. If you move across company, your channel lineup, DVR content and UI is the same... all without having to put up a dish. The xbox has more than enough power to make the experience snappy. Plus its a great "one box fits all" with apps to do other things or play games.

I use a Logitech Harmony 650 to control my xbox and that works great as a remote.


GTFan

join:2004-12-03

said by cypherstream:

STB's are just SO under-powered. I'd like to finally see this centuries based UI's on them and users to be able to just zip around them flawlessly and fluidly like you would on an iPhone or Android Jelly Bean. I know we had good discussion on this before, but I'd just like to say I'm eager to see this STB revolution... and for ALL providers (Cable, Satellite, IPTV).

Won't happen until either AllVid or some other IP streaming standard gets done for all providers. No one has any incentive to build STBs/DVRs for the masses right now because Cablecard sucks and is limited to cable and people don't want to pay for something that's decent, they'd rather rent.

You wouldn't need an STB for a new TV if there was an IP standard anyway, it would be built in. That's what RVU was supposed to be about for sat, well for DirecTV at least.


cypherstream
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join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
kudos:3
reply to telcodad

RVU (at least it's current iteration) is limited too. It's bitmap copy draw mode is inefficient for animated graphics. Maybe there will be an RVU 2.0 with a Microsoft-esque "RemoteFX" like acceleration technology someday.

For now RVU will never have iPhone / iPad like "smoothness" navigating between screens in a remote user interface.



CAST SUCKS

@comcastbusiness.net
reply to GTFan

said by GTFan:

said by cypherstream:

STB's are just SO under-powered. I'd like to finally see this centuries based UI's on them and users to be able to just zip around them flawlessly and fluidly like you would on an iPhone or Android Jelly Bean. I know we had good discussion on this before, but I'd just like to say I'm eager to see this STB revolution... and for ALL providers (Cable, Satellite, IPTV).

Won't happen until either AllVid or some other IP streaming standard gets done for all providers. No one has any incentive to build STBs/DVRs for the masses right now because Cablecard sucks and is limited to cable and people don't want to pay for something that's decent, they'd rather rent.

You wouldn't need an STB for a new TV if there was an IP standard anyway, it would be built in. That's what RVU was supposed to be about for sat, well for DirecTV at least.

RVU still needs a gateway and it forces it's GUI and it's the DVR.

we need to be able to buy the box with no mirroring / client / outlet fees. Like Canadian systems. Some of them have the Arris Gateway systems and you can buy the boxes unlike some of the us cable systems with the same system that have changed up to $15 /mo to rent the mini tv box that Candian system are selling for $138.00 - $200 to buy

SpHeRe31459
Premium
join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA
kudos:2
reply to cypherstream

said by cypherstream:

I'd be interested in seeing more designs featuring Intel, Entropic and ST Micro SoC's. Be very nice to finally see something other than a slow MIPS core at the reigns.

Yep really nice to see both Entopic and ST Micro offer ARM based SoC for set-top boxes. Even the industry favorite Broadcom has ARM solutions coming out.

There are other vendors that it's sad to see are missing from the list. Marvell has what looks to be an awesome set-top box SoC that's ARM based and uses their top shelf QDEO video processing for scaling/deinterlacing which would make for much nicer cable box output when set to a fixed resolution (i.e. the cable box converts everything to the set resolution).

said by cypherstream:

STB's are just SO under-powered. I'd like to finally see this centuries based UI's on them and users to be able to just zip around them flawlessly and fluidly like you would on an iPhone or Android Jelly Bean. I know we had good discussion on this before, but I'd just like to say I'm eager to see this STB revolution... and for ALL providers (Cable, Satellite, IPTV).

Agreed. It looks like the Comcast open license reference designs may start to do that. Time-Warner is already on board and other MSOs have shown interest in it.

As for other TV providers (i.e. Sat/IPTV), it doesn't take much to change the reference designs the hardware vendors create into whatever version they need.


telcodad
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Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

2 edits
reply to telcodad

ARRIS has now received US DoJ clearance for their purchase of the Motorola Mobility Home division from Google:

DoJ Clears Arris/Motorola Home Deal
Arris Expects to Close Proposed $2.35 Billion Transaction on or about April 17

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - April 12, 2013
»www.multichannel.com/technology/···l/142678

FYI - An earlier LRC article that discusses the two companies' product gaps and overlaps: »www.lightreading.com/motorola--a···40145223


SpHeRe31459
Premium
join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA
kudos:2

This image linked in that article is especially helpful/interesting:



telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

1 edit

Yes, and also see this blog item on the CED Magazine site:

An industry insider’s thoughts on Arris’ pickup of Motorola
By Mike Robuck, CED Magazine - December 21, 2012
»www.cedmagazine.com/blogs/2012/1···motorola

EDIT: BTW - the whole presentation from which that image/slide was taken from can be seen here: »www.arrisi.com/_docs/ARRIS_Moto_Home.pdf


GTFan

join:2004-12-03

He claims in the article that Arris doesn't have a network DVR and Moto does, which is untrue. Don't know where that came from but they still have the discontinued Moxi and their own whole home gateway (son of Moxi I think), not sure if the gateway was ever purchased by MSOs though.

»www.arrisi.com/solutions/whole_h···ndex.asp



telcodad
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Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

2 edits

said by GTFan:

He claims in the article that Arris doesn't have a network DVR and Moto does, which is untrue. Don't know where that came from but they still have the discontinued Moxi and their own whole home gateway (son of Moxi I think), not sure if the gateway was ever purchased by MSOs though.

»www.arrisi.com/solutions/whole_h···ndex.asp

It looks like there could be some confusion over the use of the word "network" when talking about DVRs.

The term "network DVR" (or "nDVR") is normally used to refer to a system where a subscriber's recordings are stored remotely on the service provider's system, and not locally on a unit located in the subscriber's own home »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_DVR

As far as I know (and someone please correct me if wromg), ARRIS has only marketed "multi-room" or "whole-home" DVRs, like that new Moxi Gateway unit »www.arrisi.com/products/_docs/Mo···OV11.pdf you mention, where the programs are recorded locally on the Gateway unit and then viewed in other rooms using a Moxi Player box, via a local Ethernet or MoCA "network" inside a home.

Motorola, on the other hand, had developed and demonstrated an actual nDVR system: »broadcastengineering.com/blog/mo···rked-dvr

EDIT: FYI - Another article that discusses Motorola nDVR platform: »www.cedmagazine.com/articles/201···-to-ndvr

SpHeRe31459
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join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA
kudos:2

You are correct telcodad.

nDVR is the term that the industry has come to use for a totally cloud based DVR.

A whole home DVR is called just that or a newer term is "home gateway"


GTFan

join:2004-12-03

My bad, thanks for the clarification.
Based on the disaster that is the Comcast X1 at this point, perhaps it's better that Arris doesn't play in this space yet.



mikedz4

join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV

they'll get it fixed. They have to because it is their baby and their future.



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to SpHeRe31459

The whole cloud based DVR concept is foolish in the event of an outage of either internet or cable services, there are no locally available recordings. At least with Moxi and TiVo, it's located on the hard drive and available even during an extended power outage or down cables during a storm.


SpHeRe31459
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join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA
kudos:2

said by Mike Wolf:

The whole cloud based DVR concept is foolish in the event of an outage of either internet or cable services, there are no locally available recordings. At least with Moxi and TiVo, it's located on the hard drive and available even during an extended power outage or down cables during a storm.

Absolutely. It's totally ridiculous that the local recordings were entirely unavailable to X1 users during all those major server issues a week or two ago.

dishrich

join:2006-05-12
Springfield, IL
reply to Mike Wolf

TOTALLY agree - & the MAIN reason why then I would rather be stuck with the I-guide, even with it's warts & all.
From what I've read, the X1 does NOT have a 30-sec skip button either; that is a total deal-breaker for any DVR service for me.



telcodad
Premium
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Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to SpHeRe31459

said by SpHeRe31459:

said by Mike Wolf:

The whole cloud based DVR concept is foolish in the event of an outage of either internet or cable services, there are no locally available recordings. At least with Moxi and TiVo, it's located on the hard drive and available even during an extended power outage or down cables during a storm.

Absolutely. It's totally ridiculous that the local recordings were entirely unavailable to X1 users during all those major server issues a week or two ago.

Well, as this recent article on the Videonet side says, many MSOs believe the "cloud" is the future:

More network DVR, more cloud, and still more CPE?
By John Moulding, Videonet - April 9, 2013
»www.v-net.tv/more-network-dvr-mo···ore-cpe/

I think that a hybrid DVR design, part local/part cloud, may be the best way to go. A smaller-sized hard drive in the hybrid DVR would be used to record and play back short-term, time-shifted (and then soon deleted) programs, with an nDVR (cloud) recording/playback function used for long-term storage (for episodes of favorite series, mini-series, movies, etc.).

The subscriber would also be able to move individual recordings between the local drive and cloud storage as desired, to free-up space on the local drive, view items outside of the home, and be able to exchange DVRs without losing any recordings.

A local-cached index of the recordings could be kept in the DVR to allow material on the local hard drive to still be accessed during outages of connectivity to the network.

SpHeRe31459
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join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA
kudos:2

said by telcodad:

I think that a hybrid DVR design, part local/part cloud, may be the best way to go. A smaller-sized hard drive in the hybrid DVR would be used to record and play back short-term, time-shifted (and then soon deleted) programs, with an nDVR (cloud) recording/playback function used for long-term storage (for episodes of favorite series, mini-series, movies, etc.).

The subscriber would also be able to move individual recordings between the local drive and cloud storage as desired, to free-up space on the local drive, view items outside of the home, and be able to exchange DVRs without losing any recordings.

Right. Nothing wrong with the network storage AKA "the cloud" in-and-of-itself, it all comes down to implementation.
said by telcodad:

A local-cached index of the recordings could be kept in the DVR to allow material on the local hard drive to still be accessed during outages of connectivity to the network.

I've said that very thing in the X1 thread. It is unacceptable that the local recordings were inaccessible.


telcodad
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Lincroft, NJ
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reply to telcodad

said by telcodad:

ARRIS has now received US DoJ clearance for their purchase of the Motorola Mobility Home division from Google:

DoJ Clears Arris/Motorola Home Deal
Arris Expects to Close Proposed $2.35 Billion Transaction on or about April 17

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - April 12, 2013
»www.multichannel.com/technology/···l/142678

ARRIS completed the acquisition of Motorola Home today:

Arris Seals Up $2.35B Motorola Home Deal
Arris CEO Says Leadership Team of the Newly Combined Company will be Revealed Thursday

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - April 17, 2013
»www.multichannel.com/distributio···l/142767

The ARRIS press release: »www.prnewswire.com/news-releases···311.html