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DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to telcodad

Re: How many channels can be bonded over Docsis 3.0?

Besides there still plenty of room in that 5-42 range for cleanup work to maybe someday allow higher modulations to inch out a bit more before they go and consider messing with the whole plant

so say they squeeze out 6 channels (which would need an * up bonding modem because they seem to go in multiples of 4)

then up them from QAM64 to 128 to 256 and likely a ton of work cleaning up the return path at each step to get it to work.



telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

Yes, see this thread from a year ago: »QAM 512/1024
and this excellent presentation by Cisco's Ron Hranac on return-path design and troubleshooting: »www.ciscoknowledgenetwork.com/ca···ting.pdf



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

Ya, I think it'll be awhile but it just goes to show at some point they'll likely weigh the costs between widening the return path or cleaning it up enough to use higher modulations or just going to fiber when the time comes.



tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

And it won't be "a panic" when the time comes...
instead they'll see areas where further physical node splits will no longer be cost effective and begin haging fiber while keeping the system running on virtual splits, minor upgrades and other techinques. in the meantime each year the fiber/ducting gets closer to the home and the last 100 feet becomes easier and cheaper (think fiber to a nearby pole or off the strand and semi-fixed wireless to YOUR home gateway)
the transition will be almost invisible to the user(other than the new wireless gateway (for all services) and the press coverage.
Cablecos* will have little problem expanding bandwidth to ANY location where there is potential to return the investment required.


Extide

join:2000-06-11
84129

Why not just expand the entire network to 1.5Ghz and beyond? Put more upstream channels up there, along with downstream. The higher frequncy should allow more bandwidth also.



telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

1 recommendation

said by Extide:

Why not just expand the entire network to 1.5Ghz and beyond? Put more upstream channels up there, along with downstream. The higher frequncy should allow more bandwidth also.

"just expand the entire network to 1.5Ghz and beyond"

There's a lot of time and money in that "just"!

Even if the coax cabling itself was OK with that, extending the HFC network to 1.5Ghz or higher would involve replacing alot of the other passive and active equipment in the system, including all the line amps and taps, much of which were originally designed to go out to "only" 750 MHz or less.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Extide

said by Extide:

Why not just expand the entire network to 1.5Ghz and beyond? Put more upstream channels up there, along with downstream. The higher frequncy should allow more bandwidth also.

Also theres a reason that upstream is using low frenquancys
highs and lows are effected diffently by distance so having the differance so great allows for better tilt adjustments.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to tshirt

said by tshirt:

And it won't be "a panic" when the time comes...
instead they'll see areas where further physical node splits will no longer be cost effective and begin haging fiber while keeping the system running on virtual splits, minor upgrades and other techinques. in the meantime each year the fiber/ducting gets closer to the home and the last 100 feet becomes easier and cheaper (think fiber to a nearby pole or off the strand and semi-fixed wireless to YOUR home gateway)
the transition will be almost invisible to the user(other than the new wireless gateway (for all services) and the press coverage.
Cablecos* will have little problem expanding bandwidth to ANY location where there is potential to return the investment required.

Sounds fine exept for that crappy wireless part

I think it'll be better if instead they one day make 8 ring pairs at 100gbit then have network switches instead of peds with maybe gig or 10gig links to the home

and have some required device so they can rate limit it on the CPE rather than on the switch.
Expand your moderator at work


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to Anon

Re: How many channels can be bonded over Docsis 3.0?

An article on the Light Reading Cable site today about some of different ways of evolving the HFC HSI network (the bonding of up to 16 or more downstream channels, "DOCSIS 3.x" and CCAP) will be discussed/demo'ed at next week's Cable Show in Boston:

The Cable Show 2012: To Docsis 3.0 & Beyond!
By Jeff Baumgartner, Light Reading Cable - May 18, 2012
»www.lightreading.com/document.as···lr_cable



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
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Baytown, TX
kudos:3

IMO they should bond as many channels as possible then make the "cable" boxes actually IPTV boxes (basicly make em into cablemodems that would pull TV via multicast)

then you could have tons of internet bandwidth and channels that aren't being watched wouldn't waste RF range.



DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:16

said by DarkLogix:

IMO they should bond as many channels as possible then make the "cable" boxes actually IPTV boxes (basicly make em into cablemodems that would pull TV via multicast)

then you could have tons of internet bandwidth and channels that aren't being watched wouldn't waste RF range.

That's the plan. Lookup CCAP:
»www.cablelabs.com/news/pr/2011/1···411.html
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to DarkLogix

And see this thread: »Motorola Pushes Ahead on Converged Cable Access (CCAP)



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
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reply to DrDrew

Cool
now bond all 1GHz
And buy more CMTS line cards



DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:16

1 edit

said by DarkLogix:

Cool
now bond all 1GHz
And buy more CMTS line cards

You'll like this:
»www.multichannel.com/article/484···lock.php

quote:
At the 2012 Cable Show in Boston May 21-23, the vendor plans to show the DS384 line card for its RF Gateway 10 edge QAM platform. The DS384 is an eight-port line card with support for up to 128 QAMs per port that can support a mix of DOCSIS 3.0, switched digital video and video-on-demand services, with a maximum of 384 narrowcast QAMs that can be used across any of the ports.

In a fully loaded RF Gateway 10 populated with 10 DS384s, the platform will provide as many as 3,840 narrowcast downstreams in a 14-rack-unit chassis
, said Mark Palazzo, vice president and general manager of Cisco's Cable Access Business Unit. That's compared with a maximum of 480 QAMs per RF Gateway 10 with Cisco's existing line card option.

...

The DS384 has a tuning range of 50 MHz to 1 GHz. The cards can deliver services across the full spectrum and provide the flexibility to place QAMs in any frequency band rather than requiring them to be contiguous, according to Cisco.

...

In a second phase of Cisco's CCAP road map, the company is developing a processing engine for the uBR10000 that will increase its backhaul capacity from 10 Gigabits per second to 40 Gbps. (A 40 Gbps upstream capacity is the starting point for CCAP, Palazzo noted.) Cisco's third and final phase will be a fully CCAP-compliant device that integrates edge QAMs and CMTS functions in the same device.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.
Expand your moderator at work


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to DrDrew

Re: How many channels can be bonded over Docsis 3.0?

Yes I would like that, I'd like it more if someone gets comcast Baytown to install those in the CMTS serving me.

Expand your moderator at work


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

1 edit
reply to telcodad

Re: How many channels can be bonded over Docsis 3.0?

At this week's Cable Show in Boston, a few more details were found out about the rumored enhancements to the current DOCSIS 3.0 specifications: »www.lightreading.com/blog.asp?bl···lr_cable

At the show, Intel also demonstrated its new Puma 6 DOCSIS 3.0 chipset that, on the upstream side, can bond up to 8 channels, resulting in speeds of up to 240 Mbps: »www.multichannel.com/article/484···Chip.php

To be able to fit 8 upstream QAM carriers, the HFC network would have to move to at least a "mid-split" arrangement - a network modification that would expand the upstream frequency band out to 85 MHz, from the current 42 MHz limit. However, that would require the replacement of all the current line amps and taps in the network.

Then Mike Wolf could finally have his 8x8 modem: »8 downstream 8 upstream modem?



EG
The wings of love
Premium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
kudos:10

Don't forget about the "diplex filters" already mentioned by DrDrew See Profile in a link earlier in this thread.



EnasYorl
Thieves World

join:2001-12-02
West
Reviews:
·Anveo
reply to voipnpots

said by voipnpots:

What is the maximum amount of bandwidth that can be achieved through channel bonding? Does channel bonding make use of existing channels, or are new ones added if needed?

1st limit is what is the system configured for.

the 2nd limit is the Cable modem's hardware restrictions

most 1st Gen D3 modems are 4x2 or 4x4 capable.

Newer models are 8x4 (8 down and 4 up)

Check your modems specs.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

said by EnasYorl:

most 1st Gen D3 modems are 4x2 or 4x4 capable.

Newer models are 8x4 (8 down and 4 up)

And ARRIS has recently announced its new Touchstone Telephony Gateway TG1672 eMTA that can bond up to 16 downstream channels. It is supposed to be available at the end of this year: »www.multichannel.com/article/484···r_Q4.php

I would expect that some of the other cable modem manufacturers will also be coming out with newer models based on Intel's Puma 6 chipset.

However, when these new modems might show up on Comcast's list of approved DOCSIS devices (»mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/) is anyone's guess.


EG
The wings of love
Premium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
kudos:10

And when will CC actually provide 16 forward carriers ? I currently have eight and that seems like a stretch and took a long time to happen.



tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

That chipset is actually capable of bonding 24 channels down.
I don't think you'll see home usage above 8 channels for quite awhile.
But to serve a larger small business? rather then some akward bonding over multiple modems, maybe?
Arris is pushing their latest D3 platform and I suppose if you were a cableco just starting your D3 buildout you might buy into this.



telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to EG

said by EG:

And when will CC actually provide 16 forward carriers ? I currently have eight and that seems like a stretch and took a long time to happen.

Actually, once Comcast starts providing more than 8 downstream carriers/channels, these 16xN modems will be able to start taking full advantage of them, just like the current 8x4 modems take advantage of (only) 6 downstream channel systems now.


EG
The wings of love
Premium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
kudos:10

I know that. I'm all for future proofing but is a 16 or more capable modem practical / cost effective right now ?