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gregamy

join:2003-05-22
Middletown, CT
reply to SwedishRider

Re: CT Energy Price Patrol- Oil, Propane, Pellets, Alt. Fuels

So I just got my contract in for heating oil for 2012-2013: $3.49. Cheaper than 2011/12 but are there better deals out there? I burn a lot of wood so I only pre-buy about 500 gallons.

GA



SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1

Cord of wood costs

said by gregamy:

I burn a lot of wood so I only pre-buy about 500 gallons.

Since it's your primary heat source, what's a cord of wood going for these days?


gregamy

join:2003-05-22
Middletown, CT

No idea. I've got 3.x acres, and with last year's storms there was plenty of trees to harvest, and prior years have been from pruning. Seem to recall last time I bought it was around $175-200 a cord, delivered.

GA, bracing for JimCT to go into a long diatribe to everyone about how much more he saves over burning wood by using propane...I swear, the guy has stock in that industry somehow...



SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
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join:2006-01-11
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kudos:1

said by gregamy:

GA, bracing for JimCT to go into a long diatribe to everyone about how much more he saves over burning wood by using propane...I swear, the guy has stock in that industry somehow...

Naaah... My stock would be tanking as the price of propane has collapsed in recent months...

I was just curious... I know a few people around here that buy cord wood and it's in the $200-250ish dollar range last I knew. What I don't like about it is the labor factor of having to haul the stuff (in addition to having to quarter it and deal with the ashes). It's just too much work.

I haven't called around for oil in a while, but $3.49/gal seems pretty high... but given it's summer and demand is relatively low, it might not be a bad deal. I'd run a google search for oil suppliers in Middletown and call around to see what the going rates are... and hopefully someone here can steer you in the right direction to a better deal.

I'll lay off the propane lecture..


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
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join:2006-01-11
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reply to gregamy

When I bought oil, I used to price shop pretty heavily-but the consistent low price went to Norwich Discount Oil. I checked their distance from Middletown and I think they may service your area. It would be worth a call:

Norwich Discount Oil
860-886-5508

I always got excellent service from them; they would deliver within 24hrs. of my call and were NEVER beaten on price in all the years I used them. I would recommend them if they service your area.

If you call, let us know if they service your area and what price they quote you.



gregamy

join:2003-05-22
Middletown, CT
reply to SwedishRider

said by SwedishRider:

I'll lay off the propane lecture..

;)

>>> ...the labor factor of having to haul the stuff (in addition to having to quarter it and deal with the ashes). It's just too much work.

It is. And sometimes it's a PITA. But it's work during slack times of the year, when other than working on project cars in the garage the time would be spent drinking beer and watching TV. While there's some significant value in that activity (the drinking beer part), and while it may change after I crossover into 50+, right now hauling in 3-4 armloads per night is tolerable.

But, I wholly admit I'm still thinking about a propane insert in the two-sided fireplace for future use. It's more of a hedge against laziness than any kind of hedge on energy costs.

>>>...$3.49/gal seems pretty high...

Generally speaking, heating oil tends to follow the price of regular gasoline. In that regard, it seems on target (last year's was $3.99). I have to wonder, though, if it may not be better to just pay spot price going forward this year, given how the low price pressure of natural gas is keeping the cost of energy relatively low...at only 500 gallons per year, it may not make that much of a difference overall. - GA


SwedishRider
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join:2006-01-11
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3 edits
reply to SwedishRider

Re: CT Energy Price Patrol- Oil, Propane, Pellets, Alt. Fuels

After some fuel research, I think I'd like to tweak the formulas just a bit for more accurate numbers:
----
Heating Oil:
1 gallon of heating oil gives 138,690BTU. If you burn it into a typical 83% efficient furnace, actual yield is 115,113BTU/gal.
Given a hypothetical $2.877/gal price, that is ~40,000BTU/$.
----
Propane:
1 gallon of propane gives 91,960BTU. If you burn it into a typical 95% efficient furnace, actual yield is 87,362BTU/gal.
Given a hypothetical $2.184/gal price, that is ~40,000BTU/$.
----
Natural Gas:
1 therm of natural gas gives 100,000BTU. If you burn it into a typical 95% efficient furnace, actual yield is 95,000BTU/th.
Given a hypothetical $2.375/th price, that is ~40,000BTU/$.
----
Cord Wood:
BTU yield by species: »www.chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm
Comparison to other fuels:

COMPARISON OF OTHER FUELS TO A CORD OF WOOD

To compare with other heating fuels use the factors below to obtain equivalent cords of wood:
Oil: divide no. of gallons by 175
Coal: divide no. of pounds (not tons) by 1600
Gas: divide no. of thousand cubic feet (MCF) by 28
Propane Gas: divide no. of gallons by 220
Electricity: divide no. of kilowatts by 6500
»www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/alturas/···son.html

Since there are so many wide BTU variations depending on species, moisture content, etc., it is virtually impossible to make an accurate general purpose comparison to other fuels beyond a really rough estimate.
----
Those are the exact BTU numbers I found and were pretty consistent across various websites (unless someone has reliable references to different exact BTU contents- please post!) It seems most modern oil burners are about 83% efficient these days, and most modern gas furnaces are about 95% efficient. And I calculated for about 40,000 BTU/$ so the price difference can be more easily seen across all fuels.

Is that natural gas calculation correct? I'm not too familiar with it, but I think it's correct given my research.


disconnected

@snet.net
reply to SwedishRider

It's flooring me that it's going to cost me over $3000 to top off my heating oil tank.. I don't know whether to wait and hope for a change of regime in Washington, or avoid the risk of war in the middle east and say to heck with the property taxes and just buy oil... what a dilemma.



meskinct
Mad Scientist at Work
Premium
join:2002-01-07
Southbury, CT
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to SwedishRider


Delivery Slip
I gotta gloat a bit.

So the new house is almost done. We close tomorrow. As part of the deal, they needed to fill the propane tank.

$1.49/gal!!!!

1300.49/820.7 = $1.584/gal delivered. Not too shabby!
--
Rich. My Website


SwedishRider
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join:2006-01-11
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Awesome price! I've never seen the price per gallon exclude taxes like yours did... it's always been a PPG baking everything into that number.

Awesome price at $1.58/gal. You beat me by 3 cents/gal.

I told you that big tank was a wise investment.



meskinct
Mad Scientist at Work
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join:2002-01-07
Southbury, CT
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·Charter

I think because they are out of Brewster, NY and delivered to CT, they must have something to break out the taxes. Anyway, hoping that this lasts through winter. Apparently the new tank came with about 75 gallons it it when it shipped. So figure with them installing and testing everything, I should have about 850 gallons on hand currently. I'll post some pics of my setup when I get some free time. Life is a little nuts right now.
--
Rich. My Website



SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
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join:2006-01-11
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kudos:1

1 edit
reply to SwedishRider

Looks like heating oil costs are poised for a substantial jump in price this winter: »www.courant.com/business/hc-wint···09.story

Looks like it will be mostly due to colder winter temperatures versus last year though. Propane is still hovering in the $1.60/gal range at the moment.



gregamy

join:2003-05-22
Middletown, CT

"The EIA said 17 percent of the cost increase would be due to higher consumption, while 2 percent would be based on elevated prices."

Well, duh. What was the average CPI this year? Much higher than 2%, as I recall.

I'm paying less per gallon on my contract price than I did the prior year. But OF COURSE I'll pay more if I use more... - GA



SwedishRider
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reply to SwedishRider

Best propane price I could find late November 2012:

Northeast Oil & Propane: $1.71/gal.



meskinct
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Southbury, CT
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·Charter
reply to SwedishRider

FYI - Now (12/6/2012) is a good time to fill up on propane if you are low.

»barchart.com/chart.php?sym=PNY00···emplate=
--
Rich. My Website



SwedishRider
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reply to SwedishRider

Saw this in the Hartford Courant on propane taxes and thought it was interesting.

January 7, 2013
Q: In late August we had a propane-fueled backup generator installed. We were very happy to have it during the recent power outage. We had the tanks refilled by our supplier. On receiving the bill I noted a "PGE fee" of $25.54. I called the supplier and, after consultation with someone else, the customer service rep told me that this was a tax on propane used for generators.An Internet search for the "PGE fee" failed to turn up anything. My question is whether this is a legitimate charge and, if so, what is it for exactly?

-Thomas F. Semenza, Lyme

A: Yes, it's a state tax — the petroleum products gross earnings tax. Whether propane is taxable depends on how you use it.

"Propane is exempted from the tax if it is used specifically to heat a home," says Sarah Kaufman, spokeswoman for the state Department of Revenue Services, "but when used for cooking or running a generator, it does not meet that requirement."

The tax for companies that sell petroleum products, now 7 percent, will increase to 8.1 percent on July 1, 2013.

Here are some petroleum products besides propane used for home heating exempt from revenue taxes, according to a state report issued early this year:

t No. 2 heating oil used for heating or in a commercial fishing vessel.

t Kerosene used for heating that's delivered by a truck that also delivers No. 2 heating oil with a metered delivery ticket.

t Any commercial heating oil blend with no less than 10 percent alternative fuels sourced from agricultural produce, food waste, waste vegetable oil or municipal solid waste (biodiesel, low-sulfur dyed diesel fuel).

t Paraffin and microcrystalline waxes.

t Diesel fuel, except when used in a generation plant to generate electricity.

t Anything sold for export or used exclusively outside the state.

-Kevin Hunt - The Bottom Line, The Bottom Line

»articles.courant.com/2013-01-07/···dit-card

To my knowledge, my propane isn't taxed as it's my primary heating fuel even though I also use it for cooking, clothes drying, etc. So state taxes are another reason why propane is so expensive for those who don't use it for home heating.


SwedishRider
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reply to SwedishRider

Best propane price I could find late January 2013:

Northeast Oil & Propane: $1.87/gal.



meskinct
Mad Scientist at Work
Premium
join:2002-01-07
Southbury, CT
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to SwedishRider

3/28/13 Pricing. Figures the last person I call has the lowest rate. I'm at about 32 on the gauge and I'm watching the future climb and climb and climb so I'm pulling the trigger and getting it filled now.

Vendor Phone Town Quote Date Intro Rate Ongoing Rate Salesperson
Paraco 845-279-8414 Brewster 3/28/2013 2.14 2.52
Beamers 860-659-3515 Glastonbury 3/28/2013 2.09 2.20 Pete
Hocon 203-754-7601 Waterbury 3/28/2013 2.30 Varies
Wesson 203-264-0880 Southbury 3/28/2013 Will Call Back Diane/Dianna
Rural Gas 203-445-6630 Newtown 3/28/2013 2.21 Jessica
Suburban 860-848-5510 Derby 3/28/2013 1.99 3.19 Lisa
Arrow Gas 203-573-9808 Waterbury 3/28/2013 Will Call Back Jeff
Thurston 203-729-5274 Waterbury 3/28/2013 2.29 2.59 Tony
Musco 203-879-1882 Wolcott 3/28/2013 2.29 2.29 John
Marino 203-264-8622 Southbury 3/28/2013 1.94 2.09 Mr. Marino
--
Rich. My Website


P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
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join:2001-08-29
way way out
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to SwedishRider

does natural gas have competition the way electric does?

i can change the supplier on my clp bill but i assume there is no option to do that on the CNG bill to save some $$?
--
NO U



SwedishRider
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reply to meskinct

Early April propane prices: Best I could find was Northeast Propane @ $1.84/gal.



SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
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join:2006-01-11
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kudos:1
reply to P Ness

To my knowledge, no. I think whoever is the NG supplier is who you have to go through... good price or not. Someone chime in here if I'm wrong... but I don't think there is a competitive market like the electric generation competition in CT.



disconnected

@108.247.170.x
reply to SwedishRider

I'm still waiting for oil to go back below $3/gal. $3.29 was the closest so far, this past May, but it's trending up. I need to buy 1300 gallons, cash, no contract, from a supplier in the New Milford area. It may be the last time I can afford heating oil, ever. Who has the lowest price in the area and accepts cash and gives discounts for larger quantities?



gregamy

join:2003-05-22
Middletown, CT

My 2013-14 oil heat contract is $3.79, and crude oil is on the rise.

Oil prices surge above $106, gasoline tops $3.50
»money.cnn.com/2013/07/10/news/ec···dex.html

Don't get too greedy...