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dbanghart

join:2007-03-26
Lutz, FL

Verizon mandated change from copper phone / DSL to FIOS

I currently have copper analog phone (message rate) and DSL Lite (765kbps) in a neighborhood where FIOS has been around for 4 years. Verizon called me up stating that as someone who has made several reports of problems with the copper lines, they are changing out my copper lines to the home to fiber. My phone plan and internet are supposed to be the same plan/rates and I will not be seeing any increases nor incur any costs as part of this. Also they will be switching out my DSL router to FIOS router. Am I being scammed? I figure they are doing this so that if I move, the next owner will be forced to have FIOS, to reduce repair costs, and to hope I become so entranced with FIOS services that I will upgrade my phone and internet and add my TV to some special rate (that will go up in 2 years). I suspect (hope) my internet speed will be going up a bit to 1 MBPS or 3 MBPS so It may be a good thing for that. Has anyone else gone through this?


lijacobs

join:2010-07-30
Lawrence, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

VZ's offer sounds possible but not probable. I can only guess that VZ engineers studied the costs and decided that it was cheaper to use the fiber than to repair/replace the copper. Make sure that you get everything in writing, especially any promise of rates and no rate increase. Assure that there is no time limit on the quoted rates.



Ronpaul3

@verizon.net
reply to dbanghart

Verizon executives have made a decision to move everyone over to FIOS that can get it since copper lines are old and cost a ton of money to maintain. Your prices shouldn't increase, but who knows. And naturally it will make it easier to add TV/upgrade your internet.

You should get 3/1 instead of that 765k line.



dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to dbanghart

The goal is to reduce the effort associated with maintaining copper lines that have a history of multiple repairs.

Very reasonable thing to do - the repair costs on copper are astronomical compared with the fiber network.

Enjoy the new service. It's a win-win situation for everyone.


dbanghart

join:2007-03-26
Lutz, FL
reply to dbanghart

Thanks for the reassurance. I 'm looking forward having 3-1 for my internet and service less affected by bad weather.


rebus9

join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Bright House

1 recommendation

said by dbanghart:

Thanks for the reassurance. I 'm looking forward having 3-1 for my internet and service less affected by bad weather.

Post back when it's installed, and let us know if you really got 3/1 or the same speeds as DSL.

Fiber has its goods and bads. On the plus side, your voice and internet quality should be significantly better. On the down side, your voice service will last only as long as your ONT battery has power, if a storm knocks out your electricity for a few days. Last time we had a long power outage (tree vs. power line during a tropical storm) the only things in the house still working the next day were our battery powered radio and the copper-based phone service.


miataman

join:2010-10-27
Chelmsford, MA
kudos:1
reply to lijacobs

Another point to consider (on VZ's part)
Copper = Regulated.
Fiber = Unregulated.
--
"My hat, my cane, Jeeves".


guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by miataman:

Another point to consider (on VZ's part)
Copper = Regulated.
Fiber = Unregulated.

That is NOT correct, on the phone you can have either regulated Freedom Essentials or FDV ( Fios Digital Voice ) unregulated

In Florida, its also a safety benifit to have Fiber, lightning strikes can cause allot of damage coming in off the copper lines, not an issue with FIOS


wmcbrine
213 251 145 96

join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to dbanghart

said by dbanghart:

I currently have copper analog phone (message rate) and DSL Lite (765kbps) in a neighborhood where FIOS has been around for 4 years.

You sick bastard.

We've always heard, since the beginning of Fios, that their long-term plan was to switch out all the old copper, due to maintenance costs. And also...

said by guppy_fish:

said by miataman:

Another point to consider (on VZ's part)
Copper = Regulated.
Fiber = Unregulated.

That is NOT correct, on the phone you can have either regulated Freedom Essentials or FDV ( Fios Digital Voice ) unregulated.

...phone service is still regulated, yes, but there is a key difference: CLECs. Verizon has to give them access to the copper, but is exempted from that requirement with fiber.
--
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

McBane

join:2008-08-22
Plano, TX

3 edits

said by wmcbrine:

said by dbanghart:

I currently have copper analog phone (message rate) and DSL Lite (765kbps) in a neighborhood where FIOS has been around for 4 years.

You sick bastard.

We've always heard, since the beginning of Fios, that their long-term plan was to switch out all the old copper, due to maintenance costs. And also...

said by guppy_fish:

said by miataman:

Another point to consider (on VZ's part)
Copper = Regulated.
Fiber = Unregulated.

That is NOT correct, on the phone you can have either regulated Freedom Essentials or FDV ( Fios Digital Voice ) unregulated.

...phone service is still regulated, yes, but there is a key difference: CLECs. Verizon has to give them access to the copper, but is exempted from that requirement with fiber.

While yes this is technically correct, before 2004 the ILECs were forced to lease their local loops at wholesale price. After 2004 the US Supreme Court ruled in favor of a lower court ruling basically siding with the ILECs that allow them to lease their local loops at substantially higher rates (Therefore killing off any profit a CLEC could receive by leasing local loops). Basically, if the CLECs didn't build out a globally used tier 1 network before 2004, they got bought up by one of those who did.

Trust me I started my career in the local ISP business and know all too well what killed it off. They are required to lease their loops, but they're not going to lease them without killing any business opportunity you might be having with their own cheaper operating cost only overhead services, so even though they're required to by regulation, they're still the monopoly, and realistically speaking the copper network is just as closed as the fiber network is today.

The only thing that would revive the local ISP bubble again would be the reversal of that 2004 Supreme court ruling, and well that'll be when pigs fly...

Another good example of monopolistic corporations overtaking the government and regulation even though it's supposed to be "regulated". You can read all about it here: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competitiv···_carrier


jimmay76
Premium
join:2003-02-11
East Providence, RI
reply to dbanghart

Yes this is being implemented into all FIOS areas, Please let us know with as many details as possible on how they inform you of all the necessary work to be done. Also i think on a normal triple play the lowest data rate available is 15/5, so that would be a question to ask(even if you aren't taking TV), maybe they can get you that for any "inconvience" you may incur, like having to pay for the electricity their ONT(optical network terminal) needs to operate.

Good luck
J

****disclaimer

satisfied FIOS Customer



mod_wastrel
iamwhatiam

join:2008-03-28
kudos:1
reply to dbanghart

Part of Verizon's strategic plans:

»gigaom.com/broadband/want-to-swa···omplain/



JoeD

@verizon.net
reply to jimmay76

ONT draws 20W * 24 hrs = 480 Watt-hours at 16 cents/KWH = less than 8 cents a day * 30 days = $2.30 per month. Adjust up or down based on FL rates, but still worth the "inconvenience" of the speed boost 3/1 up from 768K Lite.


tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
reply to wmcbrine

said by wmcbrine:

said by dbanghart:

I currently have copper analog phone (message rate) and DSL Lite (765kbps) in a neighborhood where FIOS has been around for 4 years.

You sick bastard.

We've always heard, since the beginning of Fios, that their long-term plan was to switch out all the old copper, due to maintenance costs. And also...

said by guppy_fish:

said by miataman:

Another point to consider (on VZ's part)
Copper = Regulated.
Fiber = Unregulated.

That is NOT correct, on the phone you can have either regulated Freedom Essentials or FDV ( Fios Digital Voice ) unregulated.

...phone service is still regulated, yes, but there is a key difference: CLECs. Verizon has to give them access to the copper, but is exempted from that requirement with fiber.

Actually, you can do yourself a favor and just go with a VOIP companiy for phone service. There are plenty of them which should take the competitive edge where copper gets left in the dust! You can also buy OOMA VOIP which will be free or nearly free depending on which model interface you buy (one has a surcharge of about $13 a year in usf/surcharges). Even over 3/1 megabits, you'll do fine unless you max out your tier down/uploading.. you may want to program QOS in the router to fix that if connecting a voip hardware interface. For (about)the price of message rate phone service you can get free unlimited voip service. BTW, google voice will be free for another year as well. As always, 911 on any cell phone is always free (activated or not). During hurricane Katrina it was MORE likely you could get a cellphone signal than rely on any wired infrastructure that got washed away. Cell sites (wireless) are redundantized and the first to return after disasters, even if they have to use mobile emergency equipment at first.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to dbanghart

said by dbanghart:

I currently have copper analog phone (message rate) and DSL Lite (765kbps) in a neighborhood where FIOS has been around for 4 years. Verizon called me up stating that as someone who has made several reports of problems with the copper lines, they are changing out my copper lines to the home to fiber. My phone plan and internet are supposed to be the same plan/rates and I will not be seeing any increases nor incur any costs as part of this. Also they will be switching out my DSL router to FIOS router. Am I being scammed? I figure they are doing this so that if I move, the next owner will be forced to have FIOS, to reduce repair costs, and to hope I become so entranced with FIOS services that I will upgrade my phone and internet and add my TV to some special rate (that will go up in 2 years). I suspect (hope) my internet speed will be going up a bit to 1 MBPS or 3 MBPS so It may be a good thing for that. Has anyone else gone through this?

I need to get my girlfriend to complain about her Verizon phone/DSL a few more times. She's already had issues in the past so maybe they will do the same thing. I would love for them to force her to FiOS, then at least her internet speed might be a little faster. Since she won't do it on her own, she will have to be forced to switch from Verizon copper to Fiber.

grecord

join:2002-01-06
Germantown, MD
reply to dbanghart

The only issue is that when fios doesn't work, admittedly VERY rare, the pots lines still do. We were out for several days from power outages due to snow but my separate pots line was still available.


vz tech 2

join:2005-11-19
Richmond, VA
reply to dbanghart

yes this is part of the new Verizon regime, and yes you only have limited voice service (as far as time ) in the event of total power outage, but there are numerous ways to extend the power to your Ont. Generator unlimited power till the gas runs out, ups device dedicated to the Ont, power inverter off of your car battery (use for emergency only) unless you want a dead car battery also, and last but not least a car portable battery jumper with both ac outlets and cigarette where you can plug the Ont directly in, and a car inverter in. All will extend the life of your voice service in a crunch, we just have to be forward thinking on these issues, like we are or should be with any emergency plan in your house map it out and prepare for the what ifs


rtfm

join:2005-07-09
Washington, DC

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to dbanghart

They may force you off DSL by dropping the service, but I find it more likely they will continue to encourage {al-la Tony Soprano} you to move.

The communications lawyers I know have not endorsed the idea that Verizontal can force POTS users to FIOS, and abandon the rate-base copper....no matter how much the Old Bitch's bastard kid wants to do so....it would take direct FCC approval to allow such.



Eddy120876

join:2009-02-16
Bronx, NY
reply to dbanghart

Lucky you. I been living in this area and only one place has Fios near me. Im stuck on DSL for a loooooong time



Jackarino
YacCity
Premium
join:2006-12-28
Allendale, NJ
kudos:1

You'll have to wait even longer to get Fios I hate to say due to the roll out freeze.



Eddy120876

join:2009-02-16
Bronx, NY

Well they better finish it before 2014 or VZ will get hit with an insane fine. They have an agreement with the city and they have full fill the agreement. Thats the only good thing about NYC

Expand your moderator at work

dbanghart

join:2007-03-26
Lutz, FL

4 edits
reply to dbanghart

Re: Verizon mandated change from copper phone / DSL to FIOS

I was advised on this on a Thursday. I called back the next day (Friday) and left a message indicating I agreed to do this. Saturday I was called back as the agent was out on Friday. We set up an appt for the following Thursday AM.

On Wednesday the Verizon ditch witch guy showed up to run the line from the box in my neighbors right of way to my right of way and then to the house. If it weren't for the vehicle tracks I would not be able to tell the line was dug. The old copper line was left as is.

Thursday AM Verizon install guy showed up. He came in the house to scope things out. He wanted to place the battery back up in our NE corner home office, at the North wall because the ONT would go on the exterior side of the wall. I asked for alternative location. He put it in the garage on the opposite side of house (40 feet away). He had to run the line through the attic and down an interior wall next to a power outlet.

He installed the ONT on the exterior wall near my existing copper box. He ran line from ONT to the copper box.

He connected the ONT to router via an existing coax cable connection in our office. He ran the cable from the ONT up the exterior wall into the attic, disconnected the office cable from the splitter in the attic and connected it the ONT cable. Thus he did not have to do any drilling in my office.

He connected the router to the cable outlet, waited about 10 minutes and the internet was up. He then went out and made the switch from copper lines to the ONT.

Thus from the ONT I have a coax cable connection to my router, and phone line connection to my interior phone lines.

I removed by DSL filters and was good to go.

Billing plan speed = 3mbps download / 1 mbps upload
Delivered plan speed = 5m/2m
Actual speed varies - 4.8m / 1.5 to 2.3m

Now I am checking on what I am going to get billed. I will update on that.

Interestingly, about a week later I received a letter from Tom Maquire - Sr. VP Verizon National Operations Support advising me of the opportunity to change over because of land line service issues. I could call -877-784-5394 8A - 9P to to schedule an appt. A little late but one more bit of confirmation,

I have Google Voice already but will look at OOMA. tmc8080 thanks for that tip.



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:30
reply to Jackarino

said by Jackarino:

You'll have to wait even longer to get Fios I hate to say due to the roll out freeze.

Wrong.

VZ is contractually obligated to completely wire all of NYC by 2014.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


norbert26
Premium
join:2010-08-10
Warwick, RI
reply to dbanghart

Verizon has confirmed they are no longer offering DSL to NEW customers in my FiOS market. I am unsure if new customers can order POTS over copper going forward (most people would not know the difference of copper VS fiber out on the poles it either works or it doesn't).


OwlSaver
OwlSaver
Premium
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA
reply to dennismurphy

said by dennismurphy:

The goal is to reduce the effort associated with maintaining copper lines that have a history of multiple repairs.

Very reasonable thing to do - the repair costs on copper are astronomical compared with the fiber network.

Enjoy the new service. It's a win-win situation for everyone.

Does anyone know why copper is cheaper? The actual cables (at least in a data center) are much more expensive. Also Fibre boards are not cheap. So, I assume that all the parts for FiOS are more expensive. Is it cheaper to find and fix problems with Fibre?


Eddy120876

join:2009-02-16
Bronx, NY

Plus with Fiber theres no bottle necking or sharing of the line with your neighbors like Cablevisions "amazing fast speed that only compares to Fios lowest package"



aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

1 recommendation

said by Eddy120876:

Plus with Fiber theres no bottle necking or sharing of the line with your neighbors like Cablevisions "amazing fast speed that only compares to Fios lowest package"

The fiber bandwidth is still shared. They just don't oversaturate it like most of the cable companies do.

rtfm

join:2005-07-09
Washington, DC
reply to Eddy120876

said by Eddy120876:

Plus with Fiber theres no bottle necking

The bottle necking comes in their reaching down your throat to extract their tribute.....

dbanghart

join:2007-03-26
Lutz, FL
reply to dbanghart

I finally received my bill. It sent down 4 dollars. I'm paying less and getting more.
Bear in mind that certain one times were credited or waived.
FiOS Internet Activation Fee $29.99
FiOS Internet Installation Charge $79.99
Wireless Router - $139.99
I'm also getting a loyalty credit which is my monthly bill is lower.