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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo

Member

Central Vacuum Motor issue

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So I originally thought my wife blew the motor when she failed to turn it off when hints of choking occurred (Never cleaned the filter in 4 months).

Upon dismantling the thing, I found that the motor DID work but as if the electrical contacts were loose/weak. Since those contacts look like they are aluminum, I figured they overheated (The lights were dimming throughout the house while the thing was choking) and expanded/contracted which loosened things up.

Anyway, with my multimeter, I confirmed that the two connectors from the control board to the motor did send 120v AC, but it's AT the motor that things get weird.

As seen in the picture above, this is one of the two contact points for the motor. The aluminum/metal plate is where you connect the wire to supply current. The copper wire goes from there to the field windings.

My multimeter detects current if I contact the connectors (With the line wires plugged in). If I contact the copper wire, I get nada. I tested touching copper on one side and the connector on the other side (And reversed too) and I get no voltage reading.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what's supposed to happen between those connectors and those copper wires coming under it, then I've got two failed connectors not conducting to the copper wires.

Unless someone has further input on the matter, I will be pulling those copper ends and wing-nutting them directly to the supply wires.

SandShark5
Long may you run
Premium Member
join:2000-05-23
Santa Fe, TX

SandShark5

Premium Member

I think you're misunderstanding what's supposed to happen. I wouldn't be modifying anything just yet.

Do you have a wiring diagram? Do you have a make and model number?
TheMG
Premium Member
join:2007-09-04
Canada
MikroTik RB450G
Cisco DPC3008
Cisco SPA112

1 recommendation

TheMG to alkizmo

Premium Member

to alkizmo
That copper wire is actually magnet wire. It has a thin semi-transparent insulating layer.

Your multimeter may not be making contact with the copper itself.

Test for continuity from one connector of the field winding to the other end of the field winding instead (the other end of the field winding would typically connect to one of the brush holders).

leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

leibold to alkizmo

MVM

to alkizmo
What looks like a bare copper wire is most certainly insulated with a clear coating.

Instead of looking for voltage on the copper wire, a better way to test the motor is by measuring resistance between the two spade connectors (both ends of the winding). Obviously such measurement should be taken with the power turned off and with the connectors disconnected.

In addition to measuring resistance between the two terminals (where you should find a very low resistance) you should also measure from the either of the terminals to any exposed metal motor parts and to ground. Ideally the winding should not have any short circuit to those parts or to ground (very high or infinite resistance).

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo

Member


Electrolux brand vaccuum
said by TheMG:

Test for continuity from one connector of the field winding to the other end of the field winding instead (the other end of the field winding would typically connect to one of the brush holders).

said by leibold:

a better way to test the motor is by measuring resistance between the two spade connectors (both ends of the winding). Obviously such measurement should be taken with the power turned off and with the connectors disconnected.

In addition to measuring resistance between the two terminals (where you should find a very low resistance) you should also measure from the either of the terminals to any exposed metal motor parts and to ground. Ideally the winding should not have any short circuit to those parts or to ground (very high or infinite resistance).

OK so there is NO continuity between each connectors, no continuity from either connectors to exposed metal (there is no ground, that's on the chassis from which the motor came from).

So is there any reason why this motor activates less than half the time and runs at an unstable RPM even when there is no added resistance? (I disconnected it from the pipes, so it has a clear open suction).

Considering that I'm down at a bare part, I may as well find a replacement unless there is a simple solution

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

Just Google Electrolux 6600-001 motor. There are a bunch of sites that you can buy from.

Dennis
Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL

Dennis to alkizmo

Mod

to alkizmo
I just replaced the motor in our 20 year old Hoover central vac for about $110 online. Of course mine actually exploded in a shower of sparks to I wasn't to tempted to try and repair it.

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo

Member

I'm just very pissed because a week after the motor broke, my work was selling stuff from a branch we were relocating, and one of the things was a super high quality commercial strenght central vacuum for 50$ (Retail at 2000$).

Some little sea-word put her name on it and won the draw. Why she put her name on it? She thought she'd need it in a year or two, maybe, when/if she buys a house. God I hate her even more now that it looks like the motor is just a goner.

Daarken
Rara Avises
Premium Member
join:2005-01-12
Southwest LA

Daarken

Premium Member

Offer her $100 and move on.

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo

Member

said by Daarken:

Offer her $100 and move on.

I did, and I even went as far as 200$ (Cause hey, it's an upgrade from what I have). She's a major sea-word.
Expand your moderator at work
alkizmo

alkizmo

Member

Re: Central Vacuum Motor issue

yeah well can you imagine, we were about 5 wanting that vacuum, all of us had a genuine purpose (My motor broke, another was actually in the process of building a home, another had a old clunker central vac etc etc).

She's storing it at her parents' place.

Gawd.

Anyway, wow, Canada sucks as always, 99$ shipped if I lived in the states. 200$ minimum if I live in Canada.

May as well go buy a complete new one with modern gear.

leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

leibold to alkizmo

MVM

to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:

OK so there is NO continuity between each connectors, no continuity from either connectors to exposed metal (there is no ground, that's on the chassis from which the motor came from).

No continuity to exposed metal parts is good. No continuity between terminals is bad.

You were suspecting the connection of the copper wire to the terminal. That is not the most likely reason, but it is a possibility. To test that theory use a small file and expose the copper under the insulation (at the end where your red arrow points). Then connect the multimeter at the copper wire for continuity testing.

Another test that you can perform is to attach your multimeter to the two terminals and slowly turn the rotor until you made a full 360 degree turn. While you turned the rotor, where there periods of continuity ?
walta
join:2001-05-22
Saint Louis, MO

walta to alkizmo

Member

to alkizmo
Can’t tell from the photo but I think you will find a thermal fuse against the motor wires.

I also think under the plastic cover you will find a set brushed that maybe a problem.

Try giving the shaft a spin and measure the resistance between the 2 terminals on the motor with the wires disconnected.

Walta
TheMG
Premium Member
join:2007-09-04
Canada
MikroTik RB450G
Cisco DPC3008
Cisco SPA112

1 recommendation

TheMG to alkizmo

Premium Member

to alkizmo
The most common reason for failure of a motor like this is worn out brushes or a brush that is stuck inside the holder.

Remove the brushes and make sure they are free inside the holders. The springs should be able to push the brushes right up against the commutator.

Also have a good look at the commutator and make sure it's not worn out or excessively dirty or pitted (a little blackening from the graphite/carbon dust from the brushes is ok).

A failure of one of the crimp connections to the windings is not impossible, I've seen it happen, but it's less common.

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo

Member

Well I found two holes with copper exposed (Not just wires), a quarter circle around each connector.

Each hole showed continuity from a connector (So, two holes, each continuity with one of the two connector). SO I don't think it's the crimps anymore.

I'll test turning the motor seeing if I get continuity between the two connectors.

But at this point, even if I diagnostic the problem, is there any hope of fixing it without compromising the motor's stability? I mean I feel like I'm going to have to open up the thing and never put it back to perfect balance afterward

jack b
Gone Fishing
MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod

jack b to alkizmo

MVM

to alkizmo
I think walta might have nailed it, check the brushes.

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

1 edit

alkizmo to walta

Member

to walta
said by walta:


Try giving the shaft a spin and measure the resistance between the 2 terminals on the motor with the wires disconnected.

I just did that. Only about 1/4 of a revolution gives continuity. The other 3/4 I get no continuity.

So broken brushes.

Yuck.

That's going to be a pleasure dismantling that thing and re-assembling it.

Daarken
Rara Avises
Premium Member
join:2005-01-12
Southwest LA

Daarken to alkizmo

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to alkizmo
You might want to see if you can get the motor repaired locally at a drill shop. The new ones have plastic gears, and one brand had a faulty run, that lasted several months.
Depending on how large your home is, (they size the systems by Sq.Ft.) and you find a decent dealer, it would probably cost $500 - $600 if they give you a decent discount.

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo

Member

said by Daarken:

You might want to see if you can get the motor repaired locally at a drill shop. The new ones have plastic gears, and one brand had a faulty run, that lasted several months.
Depending on how large your home is, (they size the systems by Sq.Ft.) and you find a decent dealer, it would probably cost $500 - $600 if they give you a decent discount.

Can the brush repair be done DIY?
Otherwise, ya I'll get quotes from repair shops.

A new electrolux vacuum for up to 5000sqft homes would cost me 400$. Comes with a 10 year warranty on the motor and electronics, and life time on the chassis, and 3 years on accessories. So it doesn't matter about plastic gears. 10 years is a LOT.

I don't know if your price came with hooking it up to my existing pipes, which I don't need in terms of service (Already unhooked the current one for diagnostic).

Dennis
Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL

Dennis

Mod

said by alkizmo:

A new electrolux vacuum for up to 5000sqft homes would cost me 400$.

»builtinvacuum.com/parts/ ··· 631.html

Replacing the motor would be cheaper.

Daarken
Rara Avises
Premium Member
join:2005-01-12
Southwest LA

Daarken to alkizmo

Premium Member

to alkizmo
The price I referenced was for the Nutone, and it apparently was in a kit form, which had the hoses/nozzels etc.

Sorry about that.

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo to Dennis

Member

to Dennis
said by Dennis:

Replacing the motor would be cheaper.

Of course it would be cheaper by 250$, but a new one would get me a 10 year warranty on the major parts.

Anyway I read the Q&A from the link you gave me and it seems like replacing/fixing the brushes won't really do much for me. So I'm between buying a new motor or a new vacuum.

New vacuum = 460$ (tax included), but renewed warranty, quieter (Not that it matters much since it's in the garage), and maybe better filtration system.

Replacing motor = 200$ (With shipping), but only 2 year warranty + shipping it back if it breaks.

I'll talk it over with the wife, as she's the one using it most of the time and will be footing most of the bill as she broke it (I think?, but I won't tell her I'm not sure).
alkizmo

alkizmo

Member

So my wife agreed/demanded a whole new vacuum. Ok whatever, her money.

I'm eying a kenmoore and electrolux, both same price, same power, same features. Any better/worse reputations between the brands?

jack b
Gone Fishing
MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod

jack b

MVM

Kenmore probably has easier parts attainability through Sears should you ever need something down the road.