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morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
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Acanac Enforces Technical ITMP Does it follow Crtc Rules?

So this is an Interesting question to The Forum Does Acanac Follow all required Guidelines for the Crtc's Requirements for a Retail Customer ITMP let us see

Retail Internet services

5. ISPs do not need Commission approval to apply ITMPs to their retail Internet services, but they must follow the framework set out in the ITMP policy. When the Commission receives credible complaints[4] from customers that ISPs are not following the framework, it reviews the ISPs’ practices based on the ITMP policy.

6. The ITMP policy requires ISPs to disclose

the following information about their ITMPs to their retail customers:

o pricing information about their economic ITMPs; and

o whether or not technical ITMPs are being used and, if so, what effect they have on the ISP’s retail Internet services;

the following information about their technical ITMPs clearly and prominently on their websites, and in customer contracts and terms of service:

o why the ITMP is being introduced;

o who is affected by the ITMP;

o when the ISP will apply the ITMP;

o what type of Internet traffic is subject to management – for example, upstream peer-to-peer file sharing applications; and

o how the ITMP will affect a user’s Internet experience, including the specific effect on speeds; and

information about their technical ITMPs on their websites at least 30 days before introducing a new technical ITMP or changing an existing one, unless the changes make the ITMP less restrictive.

7. ISPs’ website disclosures must be accessible to persons with disabilities.[5]
So Upon Reading this and reviewing Acanacs website Myself i would say They have failed to Cover Just about all of these requirements

clearly and prominently on their websites

There is No Specific Information On The very Signup Forms on there own website Indicating The Hours of the ITMP, Nor is there the Reason for the ITMP being introduced No is there a specific listing of Who will be affected by There New ITMP, Or a list of affected traffic And there is No How the ITMP will effect the users Internet experience and As per the Crtc They must give 30 days Notice before Implementing a Technical ITMP.

basically Acanac is breaking the Rules the crtc put out is my read on this What about You all particularly JF?

Now i know some will say these rules don't apply or it was meant for bell but CRTC 2011-609 Governs an Isp's retail and wholesale offerings It does not Specify It must be an Ilec or Clec etc..
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

To the best of my knowledge the IISP's don't play the games the incumbents do.

Acanac has stated they will slow down (Lynn has indicated 1mb) to conserve on bandwidth costs during "prime time".


zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to morisato

First the hours are known, it's from 7pm to midnight. The rate is also known: half speed at worst in downstream. No change in upstream.

Then, it only applies to new or renewing customers, not current customers at mid term. So 30 days notice is there (in some cases it will even be a 365 days notice)

Acanac isn't bound by these CRTC rules, but they respect them all anyways.


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX

said by zorxd:

First the hours are known, it's from 7pm to midnight. The rate is also known: half speed at worst in downstream. No change in upstream.

Then, it only applies to new or renewing customers, not current customers at mid term. So 30 days notice is there (in some cases it will even be a 365 days notice)

Acanac isn't bound by these CRTC rules, but they respect them all anyways.

Why would these rules Not apply it They are an ISP In canada and These rules apply to acanac
ITMPs

4. In Telecom Regulatory Policy 2009-657 (the ITMP policy), the Commission set out the framework it uses to assess an ISPs ITMPs. The framework that applies to ISPs use of ITMPs for their retail and wholesale Internet services is summarized below (for greater detail, see the ITMP policy).

And Sure they are Known to us But to a layman going to the website there is Very little information whatsoever. provided and none of the requirements of the crtc are met.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.

zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
Reviews:
·Acanac

Very little information? Just go to »acanac.com/DSL.html

Everything is there. It's so simple that it only requires one line in the table. It's not hidden or anything. It's just below the "speed" line.


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
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They are supposedly differing hours on weekends and Also That is not clearly nor Prominent in its display As well its 2 of the 5 Criteria Required by the Comission, maybe 3 if your generous. Nor do they Call it an itmp Which it is. so it leaves it open to the customer to figure a great deal out.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
Reviews:
·Acanac

Well I agree that if they throttle during extended hours in the week end this is not fair since it's not written on the web site.

However so far they do not.

I also think they answer all 5 criteria. Which 3 do you think they do not answer?



oh Reeaally

@videotron.ca
reply to zorxd

said by zorxd:

Acanac isn't bound by these CRTC rules

Oh? Is this something new? Care to share with us why you *think* they are not bound by CRTC rules?

zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
Reviews:
·Acanac

Because unlike Rogers and Bell they do not throttle independant ISPs using their service. That was the main reason for the CRTC to investigate throttling practices. And they are not part of an oligopoly, so they are easy to avoid.

I don't get it. What are you complaining about? There is a dozen or so IISPs out there offering the same services at about the same prices.

Acanac isn't for everyone but at least they offer an alternative choice and some people like it.


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
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reply to zorxd

o whether or not technical ITMPs are being used and, if so, what effect they have on the ISPs retail Internet services;

They show the speed reduction and we can make the Connection But they do not say it very clearly that They are enforcing a technical ITMP

what type of Internet traffic is subject to management – for example, upstream peer-to-peer file sharing applications; and

o how the ITMP will affect a users Internet experience, including the specific effect on speeds; and

i understand they Effect all traffic and you Understand it but They do not offically State it anywhere, Also the How it will affect a users experience is lacking In its entirety.

And a Key point
and in customer contracts and terms of service:

When signing up in the Terms of Service On there webpage there is No mention of the ITMp or any of the 5 criteria that must be satisfied In the Terms of service or user agreements, Whatsoever.

The ruling may have been brought about BY bell and its actions but it applys to all ISPS who are governed by the Crtc which Includes acanac.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to zorxd

said by zorxd:

Acanac isn't bound by these CRTC rules, but they respect them all anyways.

They are bound by them, same as any other ISP.

Disclosure requirements for secondary ISPs
63.
In order to ensure that customers of secondary ISPs receive the same level of information as customers of primary ISPs regarding technical ITMPs applied to their services, the Commission considers that secondary ISPs should also be subject to the disclosure requirements identified above, taking into account the following modifications.


zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC

63. mean that if Bell choose to throttle Acanac, Acanac has to tell its customers.

Acanac is the secondary ISP here.


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON

In this case acanac is acting as the primary ISP and is the one enforcing the ITMP, This is not a pass thru from bell.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to morisato

said by morisato:

They show the speed reduction and we can make the Connection But they do not say it very clearly that They are enforcing a technical ITMP

yes they are. What part of "Peak Hour Rate Limit - 7PM to 12AM 3Mbps/800Kbps" don't you understand?

said by morisato:

i understand they Effect all traffic and you Understand it but They do not offically State it anywhere, Also the How it will affect a users experience is lacking In its entirety.

This is implied (and obvious) that this requirement is only valid if the throttling do not affect all traffic. The user experience is obvious. Half speed.
If you think you have a point go complain to the CRTC. I will be happy to watch you loose.

said by morisato:

When signing up in the Terms of Service On there webpage there is No mention of the ITMp or any of the 5 criteria that must be satisfied In the Terms of service or user agreements, Whatsoever.

It's all there »acanac.com/DSL.html

zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to morisato

said by morisato:

In this case acanac is acting as the primary ISP and is the one enforcing the ITMP, This is not a pass thru from bell.

yes and in that case paragraph 63. is off topic.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to zorxd

said by zorxd:

Acanac is the secondary ISP here.

Correct.

said by zorxd:

63. mean that if Bell choose to throttle Acanac, Acanac has to tell its customers.

No, that's not what it means. It means that if Acanac customers are throttled - by Bell or Acanac - then Acanac must disclose that to their customers under the rules quoted by morisato.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to morisato

said by morisato:

In this case acanac is acting as the primary ISP and is the one enforcing the ITMP, This is not a pass thru from bell.

Nope. They're still a secondary ISP.

1 A primary ISP is an ISP that is also a Canadian carrier, generally offering both retail Internet services and tariffed wholesale services.
2 A secondary ISP uses tariffed wholesale services from a primary ISP to provide, among other things, its own retail Internet services.

The difference here is that points 64 through 66 (the modifications mentioned in point 63) do not apply, as it's not a ITMP applied by the primary ISP to the secondary ISP's connections.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON

I could not find that Distinction thanks BT P:)
heck even Now i am not seeing it in the regulatory documents.


bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1

said by morisato:

heck even Now i am not seeing it in the regulatory documents.

»www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2009/2009-657.htm

Footnotes #1 and #2.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
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Applicability of framework to secondary ISPs offering retail Internet services

49.
The Commission notes that secondary ISPs have the ability to apply ITMPs to their retail Internet services, and that this practice may have many of the same adverse effects as that employed by primary ISPs. As such, the Commission considers that secondary ISPs should be subject to the same framework that applies to retail services offered by primary ISPs.

Well i did find this line which Kinda makes it Specific. for that it applys
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to zorxd

said by zorxd:

said by morisato:

They show the speed reduction and we can make the Connection But they do not say it very clearly that They are enforcing a technical ITMP

yes they are. What part of "Peak Hour Rate Limit - 7PM to 12AM 3Mbps/800Kbps" don't you understand?

said by morisato:

i understand they Effect all traffic and you Understand it but They do not offically State it anywhere, Also the How it will affect a users experience is lacking In its entirety.

This is implied (and obvious) that this requirement is only valid if the throttling do not affect all traffic. The user experience is obvious. Half speed.
If you think you have a point go complain to the CRTC. I will be happy to watch you loose.

said by morisato:

When signing up in the Terms of Service On there webpage there is No mention of the ITMp or any of the 5 criteria that must be satisfied In the Terms of service or user agreements, Whatsoever.

It's all there »acanac.com/DSL.html

»acanac.com/User-Agreement.html
I've Read the user agreement front to Back Thats right there and There is No Section for ITMP nor any other of the required Info provided in it. It Specifically Addresses a great deal of Voip issues and Do not sue me issues but Nowhere does the User agreement Cover technical Itmps. and The Commisson specificed Clearly And Prominently An Implied piece of information is neither clear nor prominent.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.

pallo

join:2011-12-01
canada
reply to morisato

said by morisato:

So Upon Reading this and reviewing Acanacs website Myself i would say They have failed to Cover Just about all of these requirements

On the contrary, Acanac is pretty much following the framework set out by the CRTC.

The only required information that they left out is why the ITMP is in place, but everyone more or less knows it's because of a lack of capacity at peak hours.

Samgee

join:2010-08-02
canada
kudos:2
reply to morisato

Not sure what the concern is. They state the speed reductions clearly. They say when, and what the impact is (half speed). Paul has come on the forums and said the why - the recent CRTC decision and costs.

It's great that not all providers are doing this. For people who don't need full speeds at all hours, they can save money with this option. For people who need full speeds all day long, they know this option is not good for them.

I'm not sure what the motive is for the concern either. It's certainly not going to get them to change their business model. The speed reductions will happen. If you're wanting to help them change their message, I'm sure they would love to hear your suggestions.

The CRTC decision on ITMP was targeted towards application specific throttling. It certainly wasn't meant to control what speed offerings providers can make. Based on what I took away from the recent CRTC hearings on UBB, this kind of alternate business model is the kind of thing they were hoping to see. A new offering from the independents that may lead to increased competition in the ISP market.


zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
reply to morisato

OK maybe they should do a copy and past from their DSL.html to their User-Agreement.html but that's it.


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
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reply to Samgee

said by Samgee:

Not sure what the concern is. They state the speed reductions clearly. They say when, and what the impact is (half speed). Paul has come on the forums and said the why - the recent CRTC decision and costs.

It's great that not all providers are doing this. For people who don't need full speeds at all hours, they can save money with this option. For people who need full speeds all day long, they know this option is not good for them.

I'm not sure what the motive is for the concern either. It's certainly not going to get them to change their business model. The speed reductions will happen. If you're wanting to help them change their message, I'm sure they would love to hear your suggestions.

The CRTC decision on ITMP was targeted towards application specific throttling. It certainly wasn't meant to control what speed offerings providers can make. Based on what I took away from the recent CRTC hearings on UBB, this kind of alternate business model is the kind of thing they were hoping to see. A new offering from the independents that may lead to increased competition in the ISP market.

Samgee You Say it like you Believe it to be so and thats great, Unfortunetly Acanacs prices on a month to month Basis if you check the march Spreadsheet found here in the forum You will see In Some cases They is a savings in others Strangely The prices Exactly match isps without this Policy So its a Savings and Regardless what Paul and Lynn Say here the reason for the ITMP is required by the crtc To be on the Companys Webpage And in the Guidelines Setout by the commission there is Nothing Stating you only need to follow this if its application specific In fact it States U need to Be specific in how your Throttle is Applied currently It is not Specific Paul and Lynn Show on the website that its Half speed during those Hours, but on here Say its only as needed, That is what one would call Murky in my books. They need to pick a Company line and Tow it.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to morisato

said by morisato:

....When signing up in the Terms of Service on there webpage there is No mention of the ITMp or any of the 5 criteria that must be satisfied In the Terms of service or user agreements, Whatsoever.

 
....Acanac DOES need to update their ToS.

ALSO, their ToS contains multiple spelling errors.

Samgee

join:2010-08-02
canada
kudos:2
reply to morisato

said by morisato:

Samgee You Say it like you Believe it to be so and thats great, Unfortunetly Acanacs prices on a month to month Basis if you check the march Spreadsheet found here in the forum You will see In Some cases They is a savings in others Strangely The prices Exactly match isps without this Policy So its a Savings and Regardless what Paul and Lynn Say here the reason for the ITMP is required by the crtc To be on the Companys Webpage And in the Guidelines Setout by the commission there is Nothing Stating you only need to follow this if its application specific In fact it States U need to Be specific in how your Throttle is Applied currently It is not Specific Paul and Lynn Show on the website that its Half speed during those Hours, but on here Say its only as needed, That is what one would call Murky in my books. They need to pick a Company line and Tow it.

Can anyone translate this?

*edit* I think you just want them to outline what they are doing in more places. I'm sure in time they will update all of their TOS, most likely once they make this effective for cable.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
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Well You Seem to think Acanac is offering better prices In relation to this Rate limit during prime time, They are not when compared to others in the Same market, IE there 6/800 DSL service is 43.95 a month, The same service sans ratelimit is 43.95 a month from EBOX, There Cable is also More expensive than Distributel Options which again do not have The ratelimit That Acanac has. But i digress that is offtopic.

This Topic is mostly about the fact That Soon when Rogers Ends its technical ITMPS and bell Ends theres if it has not fully done so as it said it would by march That The only ISP still Enforcing a technical ITMP On its endusers will be a Indy Acanac, And does it follow the Rules of the crtc In doing so Currently i would say it does not.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.



Acanac Inc
Premium
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON
reply to zorxd

We are currently not implementing any of the rate limits. (Aside from a few hundred Beta testers)

We have a bit of extra capacity still left so no need to rate limit anyone.


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX

said by Acanac Inc:

We are currently not implementing any of the rate limits. (Aside from a few hundred Beta testers)

We have a bit of extra capacity still left so no need to rate limit anyone.

When will your Website properly Reflect The ITMP policy and itmp framework the crtc has laid out?
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.