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JDB

@sbcglobal.net

[Spam] liquidweb.com the new spam factory?

It appears that spammers are welcome on the liquidweb.com domain. I've been getting a ton of spam advertising some porn sites on a sub-domain within their network. Each time I send a complaint, I get the same response. Here is a sample response sent by Steve Bell, a Systems Administrator at liquidweb. In it he explains that as long as the spam is sent from somewhere else, then spam factory sites are more than welcome to be hosted within the liquidweb domain.

- - -
Greetings,

The fact of the matter is that the emails are not originating from our network, nor passing through our network at any point. Just because they reference a site we host isn't enough for us to be able to take action, as we cannot prove conclusively that our client is responsible for those emails. Your argument doesn't really have any correlation to that. If we took action on your complaint and it was found that the emails you're receiving are not from our client at all, then we would be at a position of liability. If the emails you were complaining about originated on our network, then we would most definitely take action right away to stop them. The fact that they're not precludes us from being able to take action. You can keep sending complaints, but understand that the answer will remain the same, and no action will be taken unless the emails originate from our network.

Have a nice day.

Regards,

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Steve Bell
Systems Administrator

Liquid Web, Inc.
www.liquidweb.com
support@liquidweb.com

800-580-4985 TollFree
517-322-0434 Int.
517-322-0493 Fax
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=



DrStrange
Technically feasible
Premium
join:2001-07-23
West Hartford, CT
kudos:1

Who provides their backbone?

Look at the backbone provider's TOS.

Speak to their backbone provider when you determine what part of their TOS Liquidweb is violating.



DC DSL
There's a reason I'm Command.
Premium
join:2000-07-30
Washington, DC
kudos:2
reply to JDB

Most commercial hosts expressly forbid porn/adult-content sites. Verify that the site being hawked has such content (from a browser with aggressive and up-to-date anti-malware protection), and check LiquidWeb's TOS: If it has a prohibition against such sites, advise them of the violation.
--
"Dance like the photo isn't being tagged; love like you've never been unfriended; and tweet like nobody is following."



JDB

@sbcglobal.net

I've identified their uplink (savvis.net) and have confirmed a direct violation in their TOS. After which I sent a pleading low tone email to their support requesting their involvement in the issue. Since then I've not heard from anyone, but I have not received any further spams from any of the sites. It will take a couple of days though to tell whether it has stopped, or just quieted down a bit.



Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless
·Time Warner Cable
reply to JDB

said by JDB :

- - -
Greetings,

Just because they reference a site we host isn't enough for us to be able to take action, as we cannot prove conclusively that our client is responsible for those emails.

That's not a bad reply.
Giving the boot to a site because spam was sent on their behalf wouldn't be a good idea.
Don't like a site or got a grudge against it?
Don't agree with their politics?
No problemo, just bust out the mass mailers & have their hosts take them offline because of the spam you've been sending on their behalf.


JDB

@sbcglobal.net

Spam is still ongoing. Recieved yet another one late last night and again one this morning. I sent another complaint to liquidweb along with a CC to savvis with a note regarding their refusal to deal with a spammer and how I did not expect them to deal with it in the future given their statements.

Yes Snowy, that type of thing has been done in the past. Google up information on "Joe Job" and you'll find the first recorded instance of someone doing something like that. It is possible to generate problems for a site that way.



Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6

said by JDB :

Yes Snowy, that type of thing has been done in the past.

If you're aware of it what is it that you expected liqiudweb to do?


JDB

@sbcglobal.net

Snowy, I expected them to do what they are now doing. I just received a very terse reply from the liquidweb security team (not the original admin who mailed me). In it I was informed that the complaint had been verified and forwarded to their customer.

The first step should be for them to communicate with their customer to find out what is going on. If complaints continue, then escalate the issue. Final step should be termination, not the first step. Between the initial communication and final termination there are numerous steps to be taken to prevent another "Joe Job" from happening.



Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless
·Time Warner Cable

said by JDB :

Between the initial communication and final termination there are numerous steps to be taken to prevent another "Joe Job" from happening.

One of those steps is to pass your email address to the spamming company to see if it's legitimately in their mailing list.
At that point the company will strip you out of their mailing list because you are a PITA to them.
Your complaints will stop, the host will be satisfied & the matter closed without any account terminations, I'd think.


JDB

@sbcglobal.net

Snowy, I am hearing a lot of negativity from you.

I'm getting the spam via a number of my spam honeypots. If they whitewash the one email address and continue sending to the others, that gives liquidweb further ammunition to use in convicting them. If the second email address gets whitewashed with the spam still coming in, then I go back to savvis.net (the uplink backbone) and use the email threads to put the screws on liquidweb.

Was there any other negative thoughts you wished to share?



Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6

The Terminator

Negative vibes not intended, at all.
If your complaint ends in the termination of a spammers account, more power to you.



JDB

@sbcglobal.net

All of us can only try our best. I came here looking for an idea on what to do and to let people know about the liquidweb.com policy of letting spammers be hosted. In the process it was suggested I go to the uplink and it looks as though it may have resulted in a change. Of course given the past track record, we'll have to wait and see. Until then, I just dig in my heels and find other methods to deal with it.

Spammers try to get around roadblocks, we try to put up more roadblocks. Never ending cycle of greed and temporary stoppages.



AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
reply to Snowy

said by Snowy:

Negative vibes not intended, at all.
If your complaint ends in the termination of a spammers account, more power to you.

negative, no. Realistic, yes.
--
--Standard disclaimers apply.--
google this "(sqrt(cos(x))*cos(200*x)+sqrt(abs(x))-0.7)*(4-x*x)^0.01, sqrt(9-x^2), -sqrt(9-x^2)"


Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless
·Time Warner Cable
reply to JDB

said by JDB :

I came here looking for an idea on what to do and to let people know about the liquidweb.com policy of letting spammers be hosted.

So you cut down the amount of spam coming from liquidweb clients by letting people know that liquidweb is a safe place for a spammer to host their site.
If I didn't know you so well I'd wonder if you're forum spamming for liquidweb.


JDB

@sbcglobal.net

And there we go with the negativity again.

I'm looking for a way to get liquidweb to change their policies to be inline with the normal industry method of dealing with spam factory sites. Also I provided the domain name information to let others know about the hosting domain with the policy in case they have had prior experience or suggestions regarding the domain.

You do not cure a problem by ignoring it. By shining a spotlight on a problem you can usually deal with it.



Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless
·Time Warner Cable

said by JDB :

And there we go with the negativity again.

Keep it up & you will see what negativity is
note the little smiley, that's an anti-negativity thing.

said by JDB :

You do not cure a problem by ignoring it. By shining a spotlight on a problem you can usually deal with it.

Why haven't you shone that light on the company that is spamming you?
I'd think that would have been as prominently posted as their host was.


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1

popcorn/



nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to JDB

Re: [Spam] liquidweb.com the new spam factory?

I have been seeing spam from liquidweb sites for years. The same happens to many other hosting service providers. You are never going to completely prevent this. It is mostly a question of whether the hosting service is doing an adequate job of keeping the level reasonably low. I never saw liquidweb as particularly bad - there were certainly worse. But I haven't been actively tracking spam recently, so I don't know the current situation.

There was a period, a few years ago, when I was receiving a lot from earthlink. What I actually saw were bounces and complaints about spam sent using my email address, and sent from an earthlink site. In fact, earthlink was one of the good guys in spam control. I was just unlucky enough to be the chosen victim of one particular spammer who worked via earthlink.

My only point - be cautious about jumping to conclusions. What you are seeing might be a non-typical sample of what is happening.
--
AT&T Uverse; Zyxel NBG334W router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 12.1; firefox 10.0.2