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jack man
join:2011-03-25

jack man to rocca

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Re: Start Communications - new TPIA Rogers/Cogeco

Because of the bad taste in my mouth from the CRTC decision, I decided to leave Rogers and join Start instead.

Since I generally only use~100 GB/month, you should make some money off of me...and I can stop looking at the stupid rogers usage meter wondering if this is the month that my kid's Netflix addiction pushes me over the 120GB that they were so graciously allowing me.

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

rocca

Premium Member

Thanks Jack man - appreciate your support!

Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium Member
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON

Teddy Boom to rocca

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said by rocca:

said by morisato:

Would be nice to see 150/10 with Unlimited bandwidth P:) Cmon rocca u know u want a HOG who uses a 150/10 connection 24/7!

Sure thing, $3000/mo and I *might* break even on it.

The problem with all these people asking for Unlimited options.. and I'm sure rocca gets this, but a lot of you probably don't.. is that people paying a BIG premium over capped service, will use what they are paying for. Really use it.

Normal pricing/over-subscription theory would suggest that you could charge 10% of the cost, expecting that on average people only use 5-7% of what they can during peak hours. That would be true for the vast majority of unlimited customers if the cost was only a small premium over regular accounts. Once the cost is 3x or 5x the cost of a regular account, people are going to feel motivated to extract "full value" out of it (or look at it from another perspective, only people who really plan to exploit unlimited will sign up).

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

rocca

Premium Member

Very well explained.

It's a vicious circle as well, ie the higher the premium is, the fewer lower usage people will pay to be in the 'unlimited pot' which rapidly increases the average which causes those getting the least amount of value to exit the plan, thus continuing to raise the average cost of those remaining. Repeat.

silvercat
join:2007-11-07

silvercat to Teddy Boom

Member

to Teddy Boom
said by Teddy Boom:

The problem with all these people asking for Unlimited options.. and I'm sure rocca gets this, but a lot of you probably don't.. is that people paying a BIG premium over capped service, will use what they are paying for. Really use it.

Maybe having unlimited service could mean that i won't have to check my usage stats all the time, and just be unworried that i'm going to go over the bandwidth cap. Doesn't necessarily mean that usage will increase significantly. Unlimited or not, i don't think people's habits with respect to streaming TV (Netflix, MLBTV, NHL Gamecenter Live, etc...) will change -- what i mean to say is that they will still watch streaming video during primetime, unlimited or not.

Where unlimited usage could be a problem, is with Peer to Peer programs (torrents, Usenet, etc...) -- but users, if they have proper awareness, should download these extra "programs" off-peak. This is easy to schedule.

One idea, is to just have the bandwidth meter running during peak times (since the highest peak bandwidth in any given month determines how much Start will have to pay Cogeco -- and the highest peak bandwidth point *will* be during prime time hours). I don't know if it is feasible to calculate bandwidth this way, but it's a thought. The math is probably not so simple.

upgraded
@cogeco.net

upgraded

Anon

What people say they will do, and what they actually will do are 2 separate things.

I can tell you I will download all my nzb headers off of peak time, but if I am a paying customer and decide at prime time I want to, there is nothing stopping me.

I could tell Rocca that I will download all my linux isos at night, but if a release comes out at 9pm, why should I wait since I am a paying customer?

I am sure this is part of his fear/business plan.
morisato
join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON

morisato

Member

RIP Rocca P:0 retroactive increases ouch,.. 150/10 not happening anytime soon..

silvercat
join:2007-11-07

silvercat to upgraded

Member

to upgraded
said by upgraded :

I can tell you I will download all my nzb headers off of peak time, but if I am a paying customer and decide at prime time I want to, there is nothing stopping me.

I could tell Rocca that I will download all my linux isos at night, but if a release comes out at 9pm, why should I wait since I am a paying customer?

I think that you're right about this, and this is a very good point that you're making.
stevey_frac
join:2009-12-09
Cambridge, ON

stevey_frac to rocca

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I had a friend sign with Start.ca and was very impressed.

Any chance start will partner with zazeen to offer IPTV? That'd be a really compelling reason to get people to switch.

BurlingtonGy
@cgocable.net

BurlingtonGy

Anon

When Start first came to Cogeco country; Burlington in my case I considered switching. Price was basically the same as my Ultimate 30 package (with cable discount) but Start offered 400gigs on its 30Mb plan so I was going to switch in the new year. Just checked the plan and now their 30Mb plan is only 250Gb so not worth switching at all. Not sure what happened here but there is really no value prop?

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

It's $10/month cheaper now. You missed that part.
camelot
join:2008-04-12
Whitby, ON

camelot to BurlingtonGy

Member

to BurlingtonGy
said by BurlingtonGy :

Not sure what happened here but there is really no value prop?

Your trusty CRTC is what happened. They have all but destroyed Cable IISP's with asinine price increases, so the only way IISP's can keep the cost down is to offer less usage. Exactly what Cogeco/Videotron/Rogers wanted to happen.
Expand your moderator at work

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

rocca to BurlingtonGy

Premium Member

to BurlingtonGy

Re: Start Communications - new TPIA Rogers/Cogeco

Some of the packages were realigned and the 30Mbps plan ended up $10/mo cheaper than it used to be.

edit: Err, like Gone said. Drat this "doesn't display new replies for 4 posts thing!"

DownWCogeco
@cgocable.net

DownWCogeco

Anon

I am looking to switch to start, as cogeco ultimate 30 is not worth it in terms of bandwidth. I am looking to switch over to the basic unlimited cable package, but was wondering if the speed would be enough? We have vonage phone line, so it is directly linked to our internet. These are the tasks that currently done at my home at the same time by my family members and was wondering i would be able to do them freely without any hiccups: 1 person will be playing a online game, 1 person will be downloading media, 1 person is constantly on Facebook and Google, another person is streaming movie on Netflix and finally one person is uploading files..

BurlingtonGy
@cgocable.net

BurlingtonGy

Anon

I also have Vonage...and the service is awesome...that is the exact reason I delayed Start in the first place due to the latency issues...not speed; as latency will affect VOIP services the most. From what I have seen most people have 35+ ms pings with Start; while everytime I test mine with Cogeco it is 5ms.

Maybe someone with Start & Vonage can comment here on tis quality as well.

TOPDAWG
Premium Member
join:2005-04-27
Calgary, AB

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so I take it with the god awful prices the CRTC approved that unlimited for the higher speed cable packages are off the table for a good while?
Satya
join:2011-09-11
Mississauga, ON

Satya

Member

Yes. Because the only way start can offer that or anyone else is to charge unlimited for 150+ dollars per month on the 150 tier which you can get from rogers right now directly without having to go through a reseller.

TOPDAWG
Premium Member
join:2005-04-27
Calgary, AB

TOPDAWG

Premium Member

to bad and dsl is just 3MB on my street guess I have to stay with shitty rogers.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

3 edits

Davesnothere to BurlingtonGy

Premium Member

to BurlingtonGy
said by BurlingtonGy :

When Start first came to Cogeco country; Burlington in my case I considered switching. Price was basically the same as my Ultimate 30 package (with cable discount) but Start offered 400gigs on its 30Mb plan so I was going to switch in the new year. Just checked the plan and now their 30Mb plan is only 250Gb so not worth switching at all. Not sure what happened here but there is really no value prop?

 
START's 30 plan still costs less ($55 Net vs $70 Net, modem rental included, open rate, no bundles) and has more GB of monthly usage (250 vs 175) than GOUGEco.

START's UBB rate is HALF of GOUGEco's per GB.

START has a usage meter which stays available (at least it has for ME), and needs no login.

START has a CEO who stays available on DSLR.

And START has NO problem sending correspondence to external email addresses, unlike Cogeco.

So exactly WHY is START not worth it ?
DeViLzzz
join:2004-07-29
Sarnia, ON

DeViLzzz

Member

for people wondering more about Start service my brother watches HD content and other stuff streamed on his Start cable internet that is 6 Mbps unlimited usage package and he has no problems with it

just mentioning that here in case it will help someone decide whether or not to come to Start
sssscary
join:2007-10-23
Brockville, ON

sssscary to BurlingtonGy

Member

to BurlingtonGy
I have Start 30Mbps plan in Cogeco area. Vonage works well for me, haven't had an issue in 6 months. I am not sure if I live in a busy neighbourhood, but my speedtest is almost always high even during peak times. Ping is about 20ms.
protovision
join:2013-02-25
Toronto, ON

protovision to rocca

Member

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hey Rocco/all,

I'm thinking of switching over from teksavvy/28/1/SB5101 cable service to Advance or Pro cable from start.ca

Does anyone know how much downtime I'll have, or how to minimize the downtime? (I work from home)

Also, are there any rulings pending where I should wait a month or so for changed offerings?

I'll need to rent/order a docsis 3.0 modem, since it looks like my sb5101n won't work with the faster speeds at start.ca.

TIA.

BurlingtonGy
@cgocable.net

BurlingtonGy to sssscary

Anon

to sssscary
Well…my take on Daves question “So exactly WHY is START not worth it ?”

START's 30 plan still costs less ($55 Net vs $70 Net, modem rental included, open rate, no bundles) and has more GB of monthly usage (250 vs 175) than GOUGEco.
- Well..for me probably like most: I have basic Cogeco cable so cost for Ultimate 30 is 61$ and there is no modem rental fee. Cogeco is 175Gb and Start 250Gb now..at 400Gb when it launched it was appealing. Cogeco has a fast network with low latency but Start’s latency seems much higher which can be an issue for users like me that are VIOP and VPN heavy users? Not sure of impact here…just observation on latency rates.

START's UBB rate is HALF of GOUGEco's per GB.

- Not an issue as I have not intent of paying either an overage fee.

START has a usage meter which stays available (at least it has for ME), and needs no login.

- Definitely more convenient on Start than logging in. But not much value add as logging in takes less than a minute to check account.

START has a CEO who stays available on DSLR.

- Yes..much appreciated what Rocca does.

And START has NO problem sending correspondence to external email addresses, unlike Cogeco.

- Have no idea what you are referring to here; been with cogeco for approx 15 years never had a problem with email?

So exactly WHY is START not worth it ?

- Well…this will need to be on a case by case basis for each person’s scenario…for someone like me it comes down to 6$ less for 75Gb of extra cap space? Too me not worth it! Sorry Dave and Rocca!

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

1 edit

Davesnothere

Premium Member

said by BurlingtonGy :

Well…my take on Daves question "So exactly WHY is START not worth it ?" ....

 
If you have been with Cogeco for all of 15 years, then that has to be for good reasons, and must count for something.

For that alone, I change my original position - you SHOULD think twice before changing, even if to the 400 GB plan which START first offered.

Also because of your long tenure with them, you likely use a Cogeco email address as your primary email anyway, so you would not have been exposed to, nor have noticed what so many others of us have, about Cogeco refusing to send notifications to external (non-Cogeco) email addresses, and their forwarding emails from Cogeco to elsewhere not working properly either.

And your Cogeco modem is not free - it is only included, and if it was extra, your base rate would be lower, more like how START does things.

Your bundle discount is good, but not fair to make part of the calculations, if to compare apples to apples.

I sincerely hope that you never exceed your monthly usage cap, nor get tired of checking to be sure that you do not exceed it.

Latency : Being near Cogeco HQ prob'ly does give you very low latency.

Just how low is it ?

Mine with START in Eastern Ontario is around 20ms, and my VoIP seems fine.

And I agree that each of us may have different priorities.

I even lowered my plan when START brought out the Feb revisions, from a 300 cap (grandfathered) to a 150 cap, same 20 Mbps speed, as I was not using near even the 150 GB.

Saved me $10 net per month.

Many folks would/could not have been in a position to do that.

When START's next plans are offered, I will give them due consideration, as I'm sure will yourself and everyone else.

Cheers !

Anon601
@start.ca

Anon601 to rocca

Anon

to rocca
very smooth transition.

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

rocca

Premium Member

Excellent, welcome aboard!

XNemesis
join:2002-11-16
Kitchener, ON

XNemesis to rocca

Member

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Hi, Rocca

I had service with you guys when I was living at my uncles in Waterloo and was very happy with guys. I'm looking at coming back for May 1st at my new place so how much time should I give you guys before I call in, for setup to be ready on that start date?

I'm really hoping as many others I guess, that you will have some of the super tiers (75/??) as I'm truly a speed junkie so I'm also waiting eagerly for your update's in light of the BS ruling from the CRTC on Cable rates.

My DCM475 is on firmware 2.08, is that considered a troublesome firmware and should I look to getting it updated to 2.3? or 2.16?
DeViLzzz
join:2004-07-29
Sarnia, ON

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I hate to admit it but I am looking at going to another cable internet provider which is Distributel. Hard to beat 28 Mbps DL and 1 Mbps UL with unlimited usage for under $50. I have enjoyed my time with Start Communications thus far and hope that something similar to this can be offered in the future. Any chance of this ?
rudeboy24
join:2002-10-14
Welland, ON

rudeboy24 to BurlingtonGy

Member

to BurlingtonGy
said by BurlingtonGy :

- Well..for me probably like most: I have basic Cogeco cable so cost for Ultimate 30 is 61$ and there is no modem rental fee. Cogeco is 175Gb and Start 250Gb now..at 400Gb when it launched it was appealing. Cogeco has a fast network with low latency but Start’s latency seems much higher which can be an issue for users like me that are VIOP and VPN heavy users? Not sure of impact here…just observation on latency rates.

Just to point out that GOUGCo Ultimate 30 (Bundled) is $61.95 +Tax witch is $70.

Start.ca's Advanced Cable Internet 30 Mbps is $49.95 + $5 Modem rental + Tax = $62.09

thats $7.91 savings a month and no bundle crap to deal with.