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Ephoie

join:2012-03-11
Brampton, ON

[Extreme] Marketing a slow speed


I am amazed at how they have marketed this speed thing.... Mbs is different from MBS. There is a big difference. They advertise the extreme package that runs at 32 Mbs, it sounds like you are getting 32 megabytes a second, which would be awesome, but in fact it is megabits a second, which in turn, is only 4 megabytes of data a second..... and that would be in perfect conditions. Not so fancy now, eh? Just thought I would bring some light to that clever marketing tactic.

Not to mention, when I called in to see what I could do, all they can suggest is do a speed check, ping google, and finally, buy a larger package to increase speeds, which by the way would require me purchasing their new modem. All of which have done nothing to relieve the issue that rogers is slow. They have overloaded the nodes to cram as much in their pockets than what they should fit. With all the money they make, they could afford to upgrade their network to what they advertise. It feels like a big money grab, and we're left with a poor service and empty pockets!

I don't know if you can see that this issue is bigger than just a couple people disgruntled by poor customer service. This is how Rogers is keeping its shareholders happy, by manipulating the customer into thinking that they haven't been tricked by savvy marketing to and that the Rogers internet isn't slow. Instead, they run you round in circles until you get fed up, and either put out the cash, or decide to go to another ISP.

This is a poor business practice and it is working for Rogers very well. The less we voice our discontent and lack of quality of service, the more they win. The best way, is to call in, complain as much as possible, and demand some form of incentive to keep our business. They are not the only service provider. They are just well funded in the marketing department. Just remember, the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

I would appreciate any input from other customers, and their experiences on this issue, and maybe how they have resolved them as well.
:smileymad:


stormy13

join:2003-10-28
Etobicoke, ON

You do realize that pretty much every ISP in existence advertises their speeds the same way don't you?
--
MS MVP Windows Expert-Consumer 2010-2011


MichelR

join:2011-07-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·voip.ms
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to Ephoie

As I posted over at Rogers:

It's not written Mbs nor MBS. It's Mbps (megabits per second) and even then if I'm not mistaken it should really be written: Mbit/s. I think the Mbps just came from the goold old Kbps (from the dial-up days).

It's confusing for anyone who is not "into tech", but since all ISPs use the same measurement to advertise their speeds, I don't think it's about to change.


JMCD23

join:2010-12-06
London, ON

As long as it's written with a lower case b, it's legit. Every ISP does this. If Rogers were to state they had 4MBps internet, Bell would shit all over them as people do not know the difference.



Ott_Cable

@teksavvy.com
reply to Ephoie

Communication speeds are always given in bits per second as the native electrical interface does not care about overhead/bit size etc.

e.g. USB 1.5/12/480Mbps, Ethernet 10/100/1000 Mbps, SATA 1.5/3.0/6.0 Gbps.

It is users that ignores 'b' & 'B' notations.


Viper359
Premium
join:2006-09-17
Scarborough, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Ephoie

How is consumers not properly understanding the measurement system, Rogers, Bell, ISP here's fault? Bandwidth speeds are a measurement, no different than imperial, metric, etc.

Side note, they want you to purchase the new modem to get you off Docsis 2 and on to Docsis 3. This improves greatly your ability, and Rogers, to receive and provide service.

As for the speed, most people I know are getting close to the advertised speeds. Some are not, and those are usually individual issues. There is a reason they are pushing the new Docsis 3 modems, and there are some that refuse to upgrade. It is not Rogers job, or any other product providers job to continue to support products that are not current for their offerings. That is the risk you take when you buy a product, that it may no longer be supported.

Some people do not want to upgrade their modems, either by purchasing or renting. Renting, you can usually get it for free. This is why I rent, so I always have the latest hardware when i want it. I think a lot of criticism towards Rogers is just because they hate Rogers. I don't blame them. Rogers drops the ball all too often, and you must navigate their horrid first level support and get to level 2 just to get someone on the phone that has a clue.

No idea about your area, but, I would love to know more about your speed issues, what exactly are your issues. I live in the east end of Toronto for years, never really had any issues.

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, go talk to some teksavvy customers.


Hooter

join:2009-08-17
Scarborough, ON

said by Viper359:

Some people do not want to upgrade their modems, either by purchasing or renting.

When you read the horror stories that people with Rogers D3 modems have had, do you blame people for not wanting to upgrade? All you need to do is run a Google search. I still have Express with a D2 modem and have never had a problem with it or with my D-Link Router. I will keep this either until I am forced to upgrade or Rogers approves a stand-alone D3 modem!

Viper359
Premium
join:2006-09-17
Scarborough, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms

Hooter: I have to somewhat agree! I have had the SMC modem since they released it. However, I didn't want an all in one modem, so of course, I shut off EVERYTHING. I have my own hardware to handle routing and wireless.

I think that is a big reason why I have been problem free. Rogers should have done that, released just a modem, but I think Bell's big push for these all in ones had Rogers do the same thing.

In fact, I think I read it on here to shut everything off years ago. lol I think a big reason there is so many issues, is this all in one garbage. The software they send with it to get it all working is silly too. Personally, I think many people who don't understand this tech, don't know what their doing, and don't spend time to figure it out. Much like software bundled to setup a new router. I hate that stuff. I do it the old fashioned way, I log into the thing.


MichelR

join:2011-07-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·voip.ms
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to Ephoie

I have the SMC but only use it as a modem, and use my own router. I gave the router functionality a try and it only took a few minutes to realize that it sucks as a router. Never had a problem with it as far as the modem goes, and I'm getting the expected speeds (that's through actual download speeds from sites that can give it to me that fast, not through Speedtest).


bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to Ephoie

Bits per second (or kilobits, or megabits, and now even gigabits in some cases) has pretty much been the industry standard for connection speeds the world over since they stopped listing modem speeds in "bauds". While they may exist, I've never seen any ISP list their speeds in bytes.



kn00tcn
zero-zero

join:2006-04-19
Canada
reply to Ephoie

even if the consumer isnt aware of bits vs bytes (how would they know how relevant either info is to them anyway), the other ISPs use the same metric, so you would just be comparing between the competing ISPs to see which is faster

the only trickery is using .99 in prices or having insanely low monthly caps


sakraycore

join:2008-01-08
Scarborough, ON

I also have the SMC modem but I'm only letting it do the modem part while I have my trusty Linksys WRT54GL flashed w/ Tomato firmware to handle the wireless and routing parts. It's been rock solid.


Viper359
Premium
join:2006-09-17
Scarborough, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Ephoie

I am glad all ISPs have pretty much stayed inline with each other on their speed measurement system. If they used both, then it would be confusing, and open to marketing BS.

If a consumer doesn't know the difference, that is there fault, not the ISP. Ignorance is no excuse, especially with the abundance of information out there that is readily accessible. It is pretty straight forward, unlike some other measurement systems. Like the US Gallon to the English Gallon to the metric litre. Now that can be confusing.

Again, you never posted back what your exact speed issue is. I know few people that have issues getting the advertised speeds. Note that is says up to! Also, your speed issues don't always have to be Rogers fault, it can be further down the chain.

Rogers hasn't tricked me. I understand basic mathematics. If you fall for marketing bs, honestly, that is your fault. Read the fine print. That's why its there. This post, and the lack of follow up, just sounds like another Rogers hater.

They are not the best of the best, but they are also not the worst of the worst. There is a reason that in latin they have a phrase called Caveat emptor. Latin has been around for a very long time, and even those who spoke it way back then, believed in buyer beware.


Ephoie

join:2012-03-11
Brampton, ON

1 edit

I think that it is easy to redirect this back at the consumer and say that they are ignorant or stupid for not understanding. The reality is, most of them are. My point is that as consumers, which just happens to be a large basis of Rogers income, lack this knowledge, and don't understand the difference, and this even extends to the service reps as well. Its also my belief that ISPs are aware of such a trend, and they bank on ignorance to a great extent (Not to be paranoid).
You are all the more ahead the game if you understand the differences between MBps vs Mbps or whatever the comparison is.
People who don't though, do not always have a tech-savvy friend who does, or at least a forum to refer to. They rely on the company who sells the service for their understanding, and the ISP's are not always as honest and as forth coming as they should be. Fine print, it's there for a reason, with the hopes that you don't read it. I understand that this is an industry standard. I work for a network cabling distribution company, and we are all trained on these differences. My point is that unless you yourself are willing to go out and learn this info, it is almost just left for interpretation by any one who may be willing to fork out the extra bucks, and in the end, if they don't know what they are getting, they don't know what they aren't getting. I do realize that all the ISPs do this, measure their speed in bits, as it is an industry standard and of course they would as 32megabits sounds better than 4 megabytes, don't ya' think. Finally,when I go and download a file, it's measured in MBps, or kBps. not bits. Thank you.


Ephoie

join:2012-03-11
Brampton, ON

My speed issue would be that I am stuck at a mere 8Mbps (or 1MBps) speed day in and day out, when I am paying for 32Mbps. I have trouble shot the bleep out of it, and the end result is that I have large amounts of network traffic in my community, thus leaving little bandwidth for what I am paying for. Also, I do not hate Rogers, I am just frustrated at how little resolve I have gotten out of my efforts to correct or increase my speeds. I have gone so far as to separate all my power cord down to one side my unit, and my CAT5 patch cable, coaxial cable and modem the other, giving them a 4' distance from each other, in an attempt to reduce noise and interference. I am not just some twit on a rant, I'm a nerd on a rant. Thank you again.


Viper359
Premium
join:2006-09-17
Scarborough, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Ephoie

How is not knowing the information about speeds any different from any one of a million products you can buy, which all have their own technical terms. If someone is to ignorant to take time and learn, it is their fault, and theirs alone. In today's world, there is no excuse for not getting an informed opinion. It is just laziness.

Again, you point to today's internet speeds and how one sounds better than the other. Forget for the last 20 years, dial up was the predominate access, which was measured in bits. Megabyte speed didn't come to the average user until the last 5 - 10 years or so.

More important, how does 32 Megabits vs 4 megabytes influence your internet decision? It doesn't. There is no big secret group sitting in the backroom trying to figure out how to confuse and screw customers with internet speeds lingo.

Maybe some files you download are measured like that, a great many of mine are not. If you use a certain usenet program for example, it reports in both.

Again, I stand by my point. It is not a businesses job to educate a consumer as you hint to. You seem to think Rogers, Bell, etc, have an obligation to educate a potential consumer on its services, lingo, background. Its your money, its your choice where to spend it. If a person is too stupid or lazy to get all the information, well, that is their problem.

As for your speed issue, who have you contacted at Rogers? Start escalating your issue, and contact the office of the president.


biznatch11

join:2004-11-21
London, ON
reply to Ephoie

It doesn't matter how they advertise it, the vast majority of users still won't understand it. They could measure the speed in unicorn horns and it wouldn't matter. All most people care about is, "well, which one do I need?". They just want their service to be fast enough without wasting money. They don't know if they need 8 Megabits per second or 8 Megabytes per second, they don't even really know what a megabit or megabyte is. Anyways, data transmission speeds are almost always measured in bits, and data storage in bytes, Rogers isn't doing anything wrong here.



franklyong
Cisco Geek

join:2004-12-05
Canada
kudos:1
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
reply to Ephoie

Basic conversion.
8 bits = 1 byte.
Network speeds measured in bits.
Computer transfer speeds measured in bytes.
32 megabits / 8 = 4 megabytes.

Your getting the right speed that they are providing.
--
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Home: Teksavvy Extreme Cable 28/1
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